A Serious Error in the King James Version

[Thisis Thend]

Strain at a gnat, strain out a gnat. Most certainly, gnats are being strained here. Another way of saying this with a more modern expression would be; "You can't see the forest, for the trees."

And so I say...., Fear God so that you keep his commandments. Do what He asks of you, whatever that understanding might be. Turn from sin. Fight your selfish desires with all your heart, mind and soul. And do not judge others, so that you worry about making sure they understand exactly what you understand. It is not our job to tell them what they should do, or how they should believe. So we would do well to turn to ourselves. That we might concern ourselves with ourselves. So that the inside of our cup is clean, and the planks are removed from our eyes. So that we can then, follow the path illuminated by Jesus Christ. That when we find that we have sinned, and discover that we have failed to follow, we would repent of it. Feel guilty. Feel bad that we have not followed the instructions of our Good Father, who loves us. And this is our baptism. The baptism of repentance. And either we are baptized, or we are not. So i think, do not get lost in the details, quibbling and quarreling over the meanings of words.

Now..., here is the mind of wisdom. That God, who foreknew all things, set in place each and every translation. That by them, He will work His purpose. And one purpose in this day, is that those assembled here in this electronic church - those gathered together in His name - come to see His truth. Might come to see more clearly what it means to "strain IN or OUT a gnat."

Yes, how deep are His waters! And how narrow the path, that leads to the Kingdom! How narrow that road. The one that guides us to those cool clear waters. That we might drink from them, and attain everlasting life ! Amen.

 

[Dale]

The argument is non sequitur, just because it's longer doesn't mean it's less literal. What's more is I never said it was the most literal, I said they were trying to stay true to the Greek tradition rather then the Hebrew, in the context of a specific passage. Finally the difference is most likely due to textual criticism, for example:

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (Matt. 5:44 NIV)

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you (Matt. 5:44)
​

The parts omitted in the NIV are the ones underlined and bolded, just in 1 Corinthians:

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: (1 Cor 5:7)

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (1 Cor 6:20)

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 1 (Cor 7:39)

But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof: (1 Cor 10:28)

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. (1 Cor 15:47)

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. (1 Cor 16:22) (The Received Text vs. the Critical Text. The King James Version vs. the modern translations. The-Gospel.org)
​

There are just some of the differences between New International version (NIV) and most other modern translations (Critical Text), and the KJV (Textus Receptus). I have serious problems with the KJV and Textus Receptus, but have more serious issues with critical text. I've studied textual criticism and frankly, I'm far from impressed. The primary sources, called the oldest and most reliable, have some major issues as well.

Indeed something is lost in translation and due to text variation, perhaps some important things. We are not talking about errors here, we are really talking about important conclusions about some pretty esoteric scholarship and we do well to exercise careful discernment.

Grace and peace,
Mark

It isn't just the manuscripts, it is also the state of language scholarship at the time of translation.

The Encyclopedia Britannica says that by the time the Revised Version was done in the 1880's, the state of scholarship in translating ancient Hebrew had improved quite a bit.

"The received Hebrew text had undergone but little emendation, and the revisers had before them substantially the same Massoretic text which was in the hands of the translators of 1611."

However: "But the advance in the study of Hebrew since the early part of the 17th century enabled them to give a more faithful translation of the received text. The value of their work is evident, especially in Job, Ecclesiastes and the prophetical books."

--Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 under Bible, English

 

[friend of]

way to make a mole out of a mountainhill

 

[Dale]

way to make a mole out of a mountainhill

You make light of the words of Jesus.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Examples of major Biblical truths which are distorted by bad translations within the KJV:

Most Misunderstood Bible Verses?

Isaiah 45 (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
>>> (LIGHT is the absence of DARK; GOOD / GOD is the absence of EVIL)<<<BAD TRANSLATION!!!>>>>

Isaiah 45:7 (NASB)
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

and creating....Hebrew 1254...bara'...
1.to create, shape, form
1.(Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1.of heaven and earth
2.of individual man
3.of new conditions and circumstances
4.of transformations

calamity...Hebrew 7451...ra`...
2.evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
1.evil, distress, adversity
2.evil, injury, wrong
3.evil (ethical)

Mark 16:9 ....Later Manuscripts (mss) ADD verses Mark 16: 9-20...the oldest MSS ONLY should be considered part of canonized Scripture of Mark, the oldest of the Gospels....
end the chapter at Mark 16:8. !!

Luke 17:21 (NASB)
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the "kingdom of God" is "in your midst."”
(Jesus standing in the middle of inquisitors!)

Luke 17:21 (KJV)
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the "kingdom of God" is "within (?) you". (unbelieving Jewish sects?...BAD TRANSLATION!)

Luke 17:21 (NIV)
nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is, because the "kingdom of God" is "in your midst.”

James 1:22 (NASB)
22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

prove yourselves...Greek 1096...ginomai...
1.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

doers...Greek 4163...poiētēs...
1.a maker, a producer, author
2.a doer, performer

of the word...Greek 3056...logos...
4.doctrine, teaching; 7.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

 

[Ron Gurley]

Matthew 19:24
Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel (ROPE?)to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

 

[Ron Gurley]

Holy Ghost

"Holy" = Greek 2282 = hagios = 1) most holy thing / person

"Spirit" = Greek 4151 = pneuma =

1. the third person of the triune God, (God)the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
2. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
   
3. sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
   
4. never referred to as a depersonalised force
   
5. the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
6. the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
   
7. the soul
   
8. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
9. a life giving spirit
   
10. a human soul that has left the body
    
11. a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
    1. used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
       
    2. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
       

John 14:26 (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is (God) the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 14:26 "But the Helper, (God) the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Matthew 27:50 (KJV)
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:50 (NASB)
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

Matthew 14:26
When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out in fear.

a ghost...Greek 5326...phantasma...2.an apparition, spectre (SPOOK!)

Mark 15:39 (KJV)
And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Mark 15:39 (NASB)
39 When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”

 

[Ron Gurley]

More modern English translations of the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic ancient manuscripts are more accurate and intensively scholarly and literal than the KJV.

 

[Dale]

Examples of major Biblical truths which are distorted by bad translations within the KJV:

Most Misunderstood Bible Verses?

Isaiah 45 (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
>>> (LIGHT is the absence of DARK; GOOD / GOD is the absence of EVIL)<<<BAD TRANSLATION!!!>>>>

Isaiah 45:7 (NASB)
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the Lord who does all these.

and creating....Hebrew 1254...bara'...
1.to create, shape, form
1.(Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1.of heaven and earth
2.of individual man
3.of new conditions and circumstances
4.of transformations

calamity...Hebrew 7451...ra`...
2.evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
1.evil, distress, adversity
2.evil, injury, wrong
3.evil (ethical)

Mark 16:9 ....Later Manuscripts (mss) ADD verses Mark 16: 9-20...the oldest MSS ONLY should be considered part of canonized Scripture of Mark, the oldest of the Gospels....
end the chapter at Mark 16:8. !!

Luke 17:21 (NASB)
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the "kingdom of God" is "in your midst."”
(Jesus standing in the middle of inquisitors!)

Luke 17:21 (KJV)
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the "kingdom of God" is "within (?) you". (unbelieving Jewish sects?...BAD TRANSLATION!)

Luke 17:21 (NIV)
nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is, because the "kingdom of God" is "in your midst.”

James 1:22 (NASB)
22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

prove yourselves...Greek 1096...ginomai...
1.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

doers...Greek 4163...poiētēs...
1.a maker, a producer, author
2.a doer, performer

of the word...Greek 3056...logos...
4.doctrine, teaching; 7.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

Ron,

I thoroughly agree that saying that God "create[d] evil" gives us theological problems. The NASB's "creating calamity" is much better.

I have been aware for a long time that the verse that many remember as "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you" can also be translated as "The Kingdom of Heaven is among you." "Among you" in many ways makes more sense.

 

[pescador]

More modern English translations of the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic ancient manuscripts are more accurate and intensively scholarly and literal than the KJV.

Not to mention the fact that modern translations are based on more source language texts, a better understanding of the ancient languages, and a better understanding of the cultures in which the source texts were written.

I have felt for a long time that devotees of the King James Version (authorized by a foreign king more than four centuries ago) confuse the false feeling of holiness they get with true faith.

 

[Theophan]

Advocates of the King James Version assume that it is the apex of Bible translations for the English-speaking world. Later translations are assumed to have diluted the truth, or to embody a humanist agenda.

What if the King James Version had a serious error, not in an obscure part of the Old Testament, or buried in the Epistles, but in the Gospels themselves, in the teaching of Jesus? Daniel B. Wallace, a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary and author of a widely used text on New Testament Greek, says that it does.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
--Matthew 23:24 KJV

24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
--Matthew 23:24 NIV

The KJV pictures the Pharisee squinting to see a gnat. All other translations point to the Pharisees straining wine to remove small insects such as gnats. It is known that they did this, or had the women or the servants do it. A Pharisee squinting to get a better look at a gnat, on the other hand, is pointless.

By using the wrong preposition, "at" instead of "out," the KJV causes the reader to use the wrong definition of "strain." This word, "strain," has a whole series of definitions. It is both a noun and a verb and can be used as a verb without an object and as a verb with an object. In this case the choice is between two uses of "strain" as a verb with an object. Dictionary.com lists seven uses of "strain" as a verb with object. The KJV uses Defintion 2 while the other translations use Definition 7.

2. to exert to the utmost:
to strain one's ears to catch a sound.

7. to pour (liquid containing solid matter) through a filter, sieve, or the like in order to hold back the denser solid constituents: to strain gravy.

While the average reader might skip over this, the KJV makes a distinct error in the teaching of Jesus, using the wrong definition of "strain," and so portraying the wrong action.


Professor Wallace is clear about the KJV giving a wrong translation of this verse.

<< Fifth, the KJV includes one very definite error in translation, which even KJV advocates would admit. In Matthew 23:24 the KJV has ‘strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.’ But the Greek has ‘strain out a gnat and swallow a camel.’ >>

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today

Another comment from Professor Wallace:

<< For example, in Matthew 23.24 the KJV says, “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.” The Greek means “strain out a gnat.” >>

Fifteen Myths about Bible Translation/


This error in the KJV does not change any doctrines but neither does it help us to understand the teaching of Jesus.

I am sorry, but do you not see the immense irony of your post? The very example you give exemplifies your straining at/out a gnat.

My dear brother, you have wasted far too much time on this subject instead of seeking the Lord. I myself am guilty of the same thing. Let us both repent and draw closer to God instead of continuing this silly discussion, since it is silly in comparison to the Kingdom of God.

 

[OzSpen]

You're listening to some "PROFE$$$OR" over God's word?

Look the KJV was translated by scholars that spoke 30 languages. It was a miracle by God. God has said he will preserve his word.

Can PROF3$$OR WALLANCE speak 30 languages? He can't even speak 3. And you are going to trust his word over God?????

Stop reading tabloid magazine "WORLD" articles written by fools. Satan runs the world, he controls the tabloid magazine articles.

These "modern scholars" can't even speak hebrew (a dead language for over 2000 years or even classic greek). Do you know how much the english language has changed in the last 300 years? What makes you think languages stay "static/constant"????????

morse86,

Sadly, you don't know your facts about the Professors who were involved in translating the KJV of 1611. My searching out the history of the translators discovered:

Translators of KJV include (source):

John Harman, M.A., New College, Oxford.
In 1585 he had been appointed King's Professor of Greek. He had published Latin translations of Calvin's and Beza's sermons, and was also adept in Greek. He was a member of the New Testament group that met at Oxford.

A number of other translators were scholars in academic institutions such as: Greek lecturer for Corpus Christi College in Oxford University; 'first Master of University College, and later Vice Chancellor. He became Bishop of Lichfield in 1609 and Archbishop of Canterbury in 1611'; 'Fellow of Merton College and Warden in 1585. By 1596 he was Provost of Eton College and tutor to Queen Elizabeth I. He founded the Savillian professorships of Mathematics and Astronomy at Oxford'.​

So your antagonism to professors should include resentment of professors who were on the KJV translation committee.

Oz

​

 

[Dale]

are you not swallowing a camel yourself my brother. Strain out or strain at makes no real ddifference and as you admit, certainly not doctrinatley .

It could be stated, "you can`t swallow (strain at) a nat, (a little truth) but you easily swallow a camel (a complete error)

No version is infallible, it would be surprising indeed if fallible humans could translate perfectly one language into another.

Please excuse my fallible post.

I've always understood what "strain at a gnat" means because the following words "swallow a camel" make it abundantly clear.

Even if this is a mistranslation, how is it a serious error? What biblical truth is distorted?

I don't see a whole lot of difference between the two translations of Matthew 23:24. The whole point is that hypocrites will harass God-fearing people for the most insignificant things, while turning a blind eye to huge sins committed by their allies.

HI dale,

Personally, I don't see any difference in the point being made. Whether or not there was some practice to strain gnats out of wine isn't the point of Jesus' words. The point was that they would fight to the death over very little issues of the word of God and yet make great errors in understanding the whole of the word of God.

Either translation works fine to make that point.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Strain at a gnat, strain out a gnat. Most certainly, gnats are being strained here. Another way of saying this with a more modern expression would be; "You can't see the forest, for the trees."

And so I say...., Fear God so that you keep his commandments. Do what He asks of you, whatever that understanding might be. Turn from sin. Fight your selfish desires with all your heart, mind and soul. And do not judge others, so that you worry about making sure they understand exactly what you understand. It is not our job to tell them what they should do, or how they should believe. So we would do well to turn to ourselves. That we might concern ourselves with ourselves. So that the inside of our cup is clean, and the planks are removed from our eyes. So that we can then, follow the path illuminated by Jesus Christ. That when we find that we have sinned, and discover that we have failed to follow, we would repent of it. Feel guilty. Feel bad that we have not followed the instructions of our Good Father, who loves us. And this is our baptism. The baptism of repentance. And either we are baptized, or we are not. So i think, do not get lost in the details, quibbling and quarreling over the meanings of words.

Now..., here is the mind of wisdom. That God, who foreknew all things, set in place each and every translation. That by them, He will work His purpose. And one purpose in this day, is that those assembled here in this electronic church - those gathered together in His name - come to see His truth. Might come to see more clearly what it means to "strain IN or OUT a gnat."

Yes, how deep are His waters! And how narrow the path, that leads to the Kingdom! How narrow that road. The one that guides us to those cool clear waters. That we might drink from them, and attain everlasting life ! Amen.

way to make a mole out of a mountainhill

I am sorry, but do you not see the immense irony of your post? The very example you give exemplifies your straining at/out a gnat.

My dear brother, you have wasted far too much time on this subject instead of seeking the Lord. I myself am guilty of the same thing. Let us both repent and draw closer to God instead of continuing this silly discussion, since it is silly in comparison to the Kingdom of God.

You are missing the point when you try to say that I am making a mountain out of a molehill. It is always important to get the words of Jesus right.


What I am hearing from many (KJV users?) on this thread is that the meaning of the verse is obvious anyway. It doesn't occur to them that it is obvious to them only because they have heard sermons that cover this and been over it in Bible study. What about someone who picks up a KJV Bible who hasn't heard all the sermons you have heard? What about someone who knows little about Christianity, doesn't get Elizabethan English, and doesn't know as much about the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees as you do? It can be very confusing to those less familiar with Christianity and less familiar with the the KJV.

 

[miamited]

You are missing the point when you try to say that I am making a mountain out of a molehill. It is always important to get the words of Jesus right.


What I am hearing from many (KJV users?) on this thread is that the meaning of the verse is obvious anyway. It doesn't occur to them that it is obvious to them only because they have heard sermons that cover this and been over it in Bible study. What about someone who picks up a KJV Bible who hasn't heard all the sermons you have heard? What about someone who knows little about Christianity, doesn't get Elizabethan English, and doesn't know as much about the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees as you do? It can be very confusing to those less familiar with Christianity and less familiar with the the KJV.

Hi dale,

If that's what you believe to be the truth of the matter, then that's what you're going to believe is the truth of the matter. Personally, I believe that either way one might think to imagine that Jesus may have used whatever preposition he may have used in making this statement, that it doesn't seem to have any bearing whatsoever on the point that Jesus was using the illustration to make. To wit: The leaders of Israel were all hot and bothered about all the little nit picky points of the law, yet they had completely lost sight of the purpose of the law.

Oh, and for the record, I'm the furthest from being a KJV'er than one can possibly get. I rarely ever use it. It's one of the reasons that I parted with the Gideon organization. They would tell me that if I went into many of these fellowships where we gave our presentation for offerings without a KJV, I'd be asked to leave. Those who get their tights in a wad over translations suffer the same short sightedness that the leaders of Israel suffered when Jesus made this rebuke of them.

God's word was given to us that we might know Him and find His way of salvation. Of all the good translations that I've read, none have fallen short of that purpose.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[r4.h]

You are missing the point when you try to say that I am making a mountain out of a molehill. It is always important to get the words of Jesus right.


What I am hearing from many (KJV users?) on this thread is that the meaning of the verse is obvious anyway. It doesn't occur to them that it is obvious to them only because they have heard sermons that cover this and been over it in Bible study. What about someone who picks up a KJV Bible who hasn't heard all the sermons you have heard? What about someone who knows little about Christianity, doesn't get Elizabethan English, and doesn't know as much about the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees as you do? It can be very confusing to those less familiar with Christianity and less familiar with the the KJV.

hi Dale, I havnt heard one sermon on it or done bible study, just like 6 day creation etc I just read it and believe it.
Whichever way we say it, it makes no difference to me of its practical instruction. Both have value and teaching i can apply.

 

[Dale]

morse86,

Sadly, you don't know your facts about the Professors who were involved in translating the KJV of 1611. My searching out the history of the translators discovered:

Translators of KJV include (source):

John Harman, M.A., New College, Oxford.
In 1585 he had been appointed King's Professor of Greek. He had published Latin translations of Calvin's and Beza's sermons, and was also adept in Greek. He was a member of the New Testament group that met at Oxford.

A number of other translators were scholars in academic institutions such as: Greek lecturer for Corpus Christi College in Oxford University; 'first Master of University College, and later Vice Chancellor. He became Bishop of Lichfield in 1609 and Archbishop of Canterbury in 1611'; 'Fellow of Merton College and Warden in 1585. By 1596 he was Provost of Eton College and tutor to Queen Elizabeth I. He founded the Savillian professorships of Mathematics and Astronomy at Oxford'.​

So your antagonism to professors should include resentment of professors who were on the KJV translation committee.

Oz

​

This is a good point, Oz!

 

[Copperhead]

All translations from the original languages are flawed in one way or another. There is no way to perfectly translate all the nuances of one language into another.

I see the scripture as a hologram. While one can remove or distort a little the original holographic image, the original image remains. Just not with as much clarity. Though there are variations in various translations, the original message remains.

Also, the word of God is like trying to get a message thru that is subject to hostile jamming. To do that, one spreads the message across the entire bandwidth. Likewise, the Lord did limit theological topics to specific chapters. He spread out the message just as the Psalmist said.... Line upon line. Precept upon precept. Here a little. There a little. That way, even if sections of the Bible are torn out, the message remains. Just like a hologram.

While it might be profitable to point out where a particular translation goofed, it seems like wasting a lot of valuable time that could be better put to use by quibbling too much over details.

 

[Dale]

All translations from the original languages are flawed in one way or another. There is no way to perfectly translate all the nuances of one language into another.

I see the scripture as a hologram. While one can remove or distort a little the original holographic image, the original image remains. Just not with as much clarity. Though there are variations in various translations, the original message remains.

Also, the word of God is like trying to get a message thru that is subject to hostile jamming. To do that, one spreads the message across the entire bandwidth. Likewise, the Lord did limit theological topics to specific chapters. He spread out the message just as the Psalmist said.... Line upon line. Precept upon precept. Here a little. There a little. That way, even if sections of the Bible are torn out, the message remains. Just like a hologram.

While it might be profitable to point out where a particular translation goofed, it seems like wasting a lot of valuable time that could be better put to use by quibbling too much over details.

It is hardly quibbling over details when many refuse to use any other translation.

 

[Copperhead]

They have their reasons. Some just like the flow of the KJV text. Many were raised on it and it just happens to be their fave. I will concede, some really have taken the KJV as being equal in inspiration with the original languages. I am not sure they have really thought the issues thru more than just listen to what others have told them.

Either way, one also should realize that the KJV has pretty much stood the test of time as a viable translation, and one of the top tier ones. What I find truly amazing, is that many KJV adherents will condemn the NKJV even though it follows similar grammatical structure and uses the same source texts as the KJV did. All the NKJV did was bring the words more up to date. That speaks more to the KJV adherents than it does to any translation issues.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This error in the KJV does not change any doctrines but neither does it help us to understand the teaching of Jesus.

If a sheep hears the truth from ABBA YHVH and follows Jesus the Shepherd, does the error(s) in translation make a difference ?