A response to Ben Stein

[MoonLancer]

This is your defense????
Do you know what free speech means?
It means to be free to speak on subjects regardless of others disagreeing with the power and presatation of that speech.
Stein was stopped because of opinions he held and they didn't want him given credibility.
Its pure censorship and prohibition of people because of their ideas and exprssing those ideas.
The common act of the bad guys in any story I ever heard.
The publicity and lesson from the rejection is more gain then a speech before a few kids.
Stein just mave a good move. A good point.
These kids are dumb. Affirmitive action folks no doubt.

Do you know what free speech is? tell me. I doubt you can.

yell "fire!" in the crowded theater. yell "all your bombs are belong to us!" on a plane. Is that free speech?

they diden't want to pay Stine, he diden't want to talk for free.

apparently you don't know the deference between paid speech and free speech

so if a school doesn't pay ME to talk its censorship? if a forum (this forum to be specific) censers my profanity or my view point (and they have), then they are breaking the first amendment?

is this your defense? weak sauce.

 

[MoonLancer]

removed by me! i bet your now wondering what was said here, you can ask and i will pm it to you ;p. Well to say the least i wonder if self censorship is a form of censorship that is prohibited by the first amendment. what do you think Rob?

 

[MoonLancer]

pss: how many posts have you reported Rob?

 

[Hespera]

This is your defense????
Do you know what free speech means?
It means to be free to speak on subjects regardless of others disagreeing with the power and presatation of that speech.
Stein was stopped because of opinions he held and they didn't want him given credibility.
Its pure censorship and prohibition of people because of their ideas and exprssing those ideas.
The common act of the bad guys in any story I ever heard.
The publicity and lesson from the rejection is more gain then a speech before a few kids.
Stein just mave a good move. A good point.
These kids are dumb. Affirmitive action folks no doubt.

Would you stop someone or pay them if they want to "blaspheme" in your church?

Would you call it censorship if you didn't want the state to pay for an art work that had a crucifix in a bottle of urine? Is it censorship if you personally dont pay?

Stein made a really good move! Made people think it is a "free speech" issue when Stein is against free speech! He wont give his speech for free. He has to be paid to exercise free speech. My my.

When a person makes a lot of spelling, grammar and punctuation errors and then talks about how other people are dumb, it makes you wonder btw.

 

[GoSeminoles!]

Technically, "free speech" only means that government cannot prevent or penalize individuals from expressing ideas. Everyone else can censor pretty much as they see fit.

 

[Hespera]

Technically, "free speech" only means that government cannot prevent or penalize individuals from expressing ideas. Everyone else can censor pretty much as they see fit.

Exactly, its not a free speech issue in a 1st amendment sort of way.

 

[MoonLancer]

oh i have to say this, rob, don't take one of my above posts (the middle one) personally, its a social experiment.

 

[Hespera]

oh i have to say this, rob, don't take one of my above posts (the middle one) personally, its a social experiment.

why dont you just delete it? its in poor taste haha, and we dont want you kicked off the forum

 

[Anovah]

Hmm...you have to pay someone to call you a liar and a nazi? I guess we all owe robertbyers a check.

 

[MoonLancer]

why dont you just delete it? its in poor taste haha, and we dont want you kicked off the forum

your probably right... sigh.

 

[RobertByers]

Right, and I'd say 99% of the smack talk going on here is just that, baseless bravado. Why should Stein's arrogant film be any more than that?

Leaving aside the fact that Nazism has nothing to do with science (and definitely not in the overgeneralised sense that Stein made out), it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether YOU think he's right. What matters is, most of the scientific community think that he is flatout wrong. Put yourself in their shoes - it's fairly insulting. And yet you then have the nerve to turn around and squeal conspiracy from THEM.

If I went to your house and called your wife/significant family member *off the top of my head* a child-raping commie, then all of a sudden expected you to embark in civil discourse with me, I suspect you'd likely refuse. If I then accused YOU of having something to hide, is that going to motivate you more or less to engage in discussion with me?

If Stein wants to talk, he can retract the utterly sickening, hateful, and spiteful venom he spread around with his film and its promotion:

From FSTDT:

"In an interview with the Trinity Broadcasting Network, Ben Stein said the following amazing thing in an interview with Paul Crouch, Jr.

Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers [i.e. biologist P.Z. Myers], talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

Crouch: That’s right.

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

Crouch: Good word, good word. "

Oh, of course! Science leads you to killing people! Yes, even all those scientists who spend hours working on cures for diseases that afflict children or make clean drinking water for everyone! All they're actually doing is killing Jews! Oh, those damn Jews!

Does this HONESTLY sound reasonable to you, RB?



Right, so instead of the proper answer "Two wrongs don't make a right", you secretly want this unhelpful atmosphere to continue to encourage your persecution complex. Sickening.



Could you tell all those who apparently missed out exactly how believing in six-day creation is going to radically change their life?

Context. Context.
Its not the scientific community (whatever that is) but particular ideas that came up in origin issues. Evolution etc.
He doesn';t mean Einstein or Jewish scientists or anyone save the few in these small circles that dealt with evolution or aspects related.

There are charges against these people.
There are charges against these studies today in being prohibitive of opposition in powerful ways
fair accusation against motives or competence.

Clearly this is so.
The censorship makes the case for the movie.
a thinking person will be more interested in watching the movie who didn't before.

 

[RobertByers]

Do you know what free speech is? tell me. I doubt you can.

yell "fire!" in the crowded theater. yell "all your bombs are belong to us!" on a plane. Is that free speech?

they diden't want to pay Stine, he diden't want to talk for free.

apparently you don't know the deference between paid speech and free speech

so if a school doesn't pay ME to talk its censorship? if a forum (this forum to be specific) censers my profanity or my view point (and they have), then they are breaking the first amendment?

is this your defense? weak sauce.

the attacks and denial of payment were a intent to deny a person speaking because of what they had said or might.
this is the essence of free speech, free expression, free enquiry.
Its a attack of thought and words.
they believed words mattered here. so they said no.
Not those words. Just words allowed. other words EXPELLED.

 

[RobertByers]

removed by me! i bet your now wondering what was said here, you can ask and i will pm it to you ;p. Well to say the least i wonder if self censorship is a form of censorship that is prohibited by the first amendment. what do you think Rob?

Huh?
If I follow your making a point.
Its the spirit of fredom of thought and words.
not legallly.

its a clear intent to stop speech because of previous speech and repeating that speech.
Not the historical passion of America to allow free speech to further progress. The satisfaction being allowed of all having their say and then beat it with better speech.
This is a silly story of repression of common ideas that gou into the uncommon circles of mass media. This is a knee jerk reaction of a establishment headed for destruction on many matters. They show by this censorship and attempt at controll what is always going on in many areas.

 

[RobertByers]

Technically, "free speech" only means that government cannot prevent or penalize individuals from expressing ideas. Everyone else can censor pretty much as they see fit.

Your right. In America one does not have free speech in our fathers home. or anywhere. let others stopping our speech misses the point of freedom of speech not being controled by government means it isn't to be controled by anyone. The people are free. the belief. yet also free to dent speech in their special possessions.
Schools are everybodies stuff. not private as such.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

and we are FREE not to waster our money on PAYING for someone to give there speech.
No one is stopping Ben stein from speaking. They just arent going to WASTE money on him.

 

[Cabal]

Context. Context.
Its not the scientific community (whatever that is) but particular ideas that came up in origin issues. Evolution etc.
He doesn';t mean Einstein or Jewish scientists or anyone save the few in these small circles that dealt with evolution or aspects related.

If that is what he meant, he should be more careful with his words (never mind the fact that "scientists" should read "Nazis" in the above concentration camp quote, but nevermind, a quantifying adjective in front of "scientists" would make it at least MARGINALLY better.)

I'm sure I read something in some old book somewhere about the tongue being like a small fire, but it's probably nothing important...

There are charges against these people.
There are charges against these studies today in being prohibitive of opposition in powerful ways
fair accusation against motives or competence.

Clearly this is so.
The censorship makes the case for the movie.
a thinking person will be more interested in watching the movie who didn't before.

And I say to you again - if I came and called you the worst things under the sun (regardless of their actual veracity, but rather of how YOU perceive them to be very negative and untrue things to say about you) and then expected you to engage in rational discourse with me, but you refused (due to being utterly offended by the accusation and their unashamedness) - if I then cried conspiracy, would you say I was acting like a total sociopath? I think you would.

The fact that you're sticking up for this guy doesn't make you much better than him, honestly.

 

[consol]

Your right. In America one does not have free speech in our fathers home. or anywhere. let others stopping our speech misses the point of freedom of speech not being controled by government means it isn't to be controled by anyone. The people are free. the belief. yet also free to dent speech in their special possessions.
Schools are everybodies stuff. not private as such.

I think creationists are the most stupid group of people living on this planet today,
they are blinkered or blind not to see what's going on around them.

I would also like to take this opportunity to ask if I could make a date to visit your church,
I would like to give a talk on the evils of creationism, an early reply would be appreciated,
I would not require any expenses or payment for my talk as I feel it's my duty to warn people about creationism.
thank you.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

Of course he will , hes not a hypocrite. of course you should charge them though.

 

[AV1611VET]

I think creationists are the most stupid group of people living on this planet today,
they are blinkered or blind not to see what's going on around them.

Are you a creationist?

If not, please explain why most people here say stuff like:

• These mountains were created by...
• These cliffs were created by...
• The Grand Canyon was created by...

 

[ranmaonehalf]

lol avet you always crack me up with your deep cover poeisms.