A re-examination of nothing

[Phinehas2]

I don't disagree with God, but your faulty interpretation of God's Word.

Again none of us here have written the Bible translations we are referring to. When gay and lesbian thinkers refer to our faulty interpretation they mean they think God’s word is faulty. This issue here is still unbelief in the Bible, if some would accept that we would have genuine agreement to differ. But the word of God is clear, same-sex unions are error and sin.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

A translation can only be one thing, so obviously someone is in error, and that is my point.

Um, there are numerous translational difficulties when going from one language to another. Another one that often poses difficulty is the 3 different forms of love. It is expressed as love in english, but the emphasis, which is very important, is often left behind.

 

[David Brider]

Again none of us here have written the Bible translations we are referring to. When gay and lesbian thinkers refer to our faulty interpretation they mean they think God’s word is faulty. This issue here is still unbelief in the Bible...

No, the issue is that some translations and interpretations of the Bible are faulty. Most of the Christians I know who are homosexuals don't have a problem with belief in the Bible itself.

David.

 

[David Brider]

Such churches are secular and not spiritually in tune.

No, they're Christian churches.

The Church of Jesus Christ is everywhere, and when she encounters homosexual "Christians" it is an affront to her.

Well, I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ, and I'm not particularly affronted when I meet homosexual Christians.

It is the mark of a group gone astray when they find they must "keep to themselves."

Well, hang on - earlier you were complaining about homosexuals "living in open disobedience and flaunting sin", now you're saying they shouldn't be keeping themselves to themselves. Which is it to be?

David.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Davedjy,

No, the issue is that some translations and interpretations of the Bible are faulty.

Ok well one can say that but one cant say when one posts the NIV that is just my opinion/interpretation. This is the point I am making, do you accept that?
As to faulty translations give me some examples please of some of the faulty translations and interpretations of the Bible… but not on other instances rather than homosexuality which we have discussed at length already. Perhaps I could use your examples to start another thread.

 

[David Brider]

Dear Davedjy,

Actually, I'm David Brider, not Davedjy.

Ok well one can say that but one cant say when one posts the NIV that is just my opinion/interpretation. This is the point I am making, do you accept that?

Well, yes, one can question whether the NIV is giving an accurate translation. One can further question, depending on which section of the NIV you're quoting, whether you're interpreting it accurately.

As to faulty translations give me some examples please of some of the faulty translations and interpretations of the Bible…

Faulty translations? Well, 1 Corinthians 6:9 is the obvious one - is "homosexual" the best translation of arsenokotai? Is it even a good translation at all? Faulty interpretations? Leviticus 18:22 - is it sensible to see "do not lie with a man as with a woman" as referring to sex at all? And even if it does, to read it as referring to all of homosexuality is rather a stretch.

...but not on other instances rather than homosexuality which we have discussed at length already. Perhaps I could use your examples to start another thread.

Not following you here - are you saying you'd rather I discuss things other than homosexuality? In a "Debates on Homosexuality" subforum?

David.

 

[*Starlight*]

Dear Brieuse,
Well I do, as I can see and believe the word of God.
So from your post #899 which of the translations/interpretations of 1 Cor 6:9 do you believe then? The concensus is homosexual offenders.

Well, not all homosexuals are sex offenders.

Dear *Starlight*
Not if they disagree with the word of God.
What you are actually meaning is they either don’t believe if they disagree with the word of God, or they have a different god.

Disagreeing with another person about the word of God isn't the same as disagreeing with the word of God.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear David Brider

Actually, I'm David Brider, not Davedjy.

yes sorry, my apologies.

Well, yes, one can question whether the NIV is giving an accurate translation. One can further question, depending on which section of the NIV you're quoting, whether you're interpreting it accurately.

Yes I have accepted that, but do you accept that when I quote from the NIV Bible that people cant make the claim it is my interpretation/opinion of what the Bible says?

Faulty translations? Well, 1 Corinthians 6:9 is the obvious one - is "homosexual" the best translation of

arsenokotai? Is it even a good translation at all? Faulty interpretations? Leviticus 18:22 - is it sensible to see "do not lie with a man as with a woman" as referring to sex at all? And even if it does, to read it as referring to all of homosexuality is rather a stretch.

Ok well which translation and is it just same-sex sex issues you object to? I could do that if I wanted sex with women, I could claim the translations of porneia and moichos aren’t adultery. don’t include an do that… I don’t
Besides almost all translations translate arseokoites as homosexual/offenders/practitioners/sodomites,abusers of themselves with mankind… so what qualifications have you got in Greek regarding contesting this? Or are you merely a gay or lesbian who doesn’t like the idea of no-same-sex sex?

Not following you here - are you saying you'd rather I discuss things other than homosexuality? In a "Debates on Homosexuality" subforum?

Well I said we could start another thread, but you claimed faulty Bible translation, are you saying just with same-sex sex, are you happy with the translations apart from same-sex sex?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear *Starlight*

Well, not all homosexuals are sex offenders.

Yes I accept that arsenokoites is better translated homosexual offenders or abusers of themselves with mankind, but in context one can soon work it out that it’s the act as with fornication and adultery (pornos and moichos) and in Lev 18 & 20 and Romans 1. Even Sodomites is obviously the reference to same-sex sex in Genesis 19 as adultery and fornication is already listed.

Disagreeing with another person about the word of God isn't the same as disagreeing with the word of God.

I agree, and my point is that people who disagree with the word of God or claim an interpretation opposite to what the word says are disbelieving the word of God.

 

[Brieuse]

Dear *Starlight*
Yes I accept that arsenokoites is better translated homosexual offenders or abusers of themselves with mankind, but in context one can soon work it out that it’s the act as with fornication and adultery (pornos and moichos) and in Lev 18 & 20 and Romans 1. Even Sodomites is obviously the reference to same-sex sex in Genesis 19 as adultery and fornication is already listed.

I agree, and my point is that people who disagree with the word of God or claim an interpretation opposite to what the word says are disbelieving the word of God.

I don't see your logic, with regards to disbelieving the bible. Maybe a bible, but not the Bible.

 

[Floatingaxe]

No, they're Christian churches.

"Christian" can be a label for many churches, but they are not all Christian.

Well, I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ, and I'm not particularly affronted when I meet homosexual Christians.

It is an affront to the Church when she meets openly sinning people claiming her Christ. They are in error, and need correction, but they refuse it, which puts them on the outside of her.

Well, hang on - earlier you were complaining about homosexuals "living in open disobedience and flaunting sin", now you're saying they shouldn't be keeping themselves to themselves. Which is it to be?

I am saying that because they find themselves separate, then it is an obvious sign that they are apostate. That is not part of the Church of Jesus Christ. They have become a pseudo-church.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Well, not all homosexuals are sex offenders.

God says they are. Do you know more than God?

Disagreeing with another person about the word of God isn't the same as disagreeing with the word of God.

Many times it is, and this issue is just such a time.

 

[Brieuse]

Dear Brieuse,
Well I do, as I can see and believe the word of God.
So from your post #899 which of the translations/interpretations of 1 Cor 6:9 do you believe then? The concensus is homosexual offenders.

my post #899?

you're confused.

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear Brieuse,

I don't see your logic, with regards to disbelieving the bible. Maybe a bible, but not the Bible.

I don’t follow your logic, didn’t even mention ‘the Bible’ or ‘a Bible’ in the post of mine you quoted. Was that just your interpretation of what I said regardless of being nothing to do with what I wrote. What is the NIV ‘a’ Bible or ‘the’ Bible? Is ‘a’ Bible still a Bible? is ‘the’ Bible still the Bible? If the Bible isnt the Bible and if a Bible isnt a Bible what are they?
So in my post that you quoted you can see that arsenokoites is better translated homosexual offenders or abusers of mankind as actions rather than just homosexuals, though one can soon see homosexuals means same-sex offenders.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Dear Brieuse,
I don’t follow your logic, didn’t even mention ‘the Bible’ or ‘a Bible’ in the post of mine you quoted. Was that just your interpretation of what I said regardless of being nothing to do with what I wrote. What is the NIV ‘a’ Bible or ‘the’ Bible? Is ‘a’ Bible still a Bible? is ‘the’ Bible still the Bible? If the Bible isnt the Bible and if a Bible isnt a Bible what are they?
So in my post that you quoted you can see that arsenokoites is better translated homosexual offenders or abusers of mankind as actions rather than just homosexuals, though one can soon see homosexuals means same-sex offenders.

 

[davedjy]

Dear Davedjy,

Ok well one can say that but one cant say when one posts the NIV that is just my opinion/interpretation. This is the point I am making, do you accept that?[/SIZE]
As to faulty translations give me some examples please of some of the faulty translations and interpretations of the Bible… but not on other instances rather than homosexuality which we have discussed at length already. Perhaps I could use your examples to start another thread.

I already told you. "Arsen" means "male", and "koitai" means "beds", there is no proof that this word means "homosexual", it is a gigantic leap. The word is obscure and unknown. The best translation I've seen so far, is a promiscuous man.

I don't have a problem with you saying it's in the NIV, as that is fact, but that doesn't make the translation accurate.

 

[Brieuse]

Dear Brieuse,
I don’t follow your logic, didn’t even mention ‘the Bible’ or ‘a Bible’ in the post of mine you quoted. Was that just your interpretation of what I said regardless of being nothing to do with what I wrote. What is the NIV ‘a’ Bible or ‘the’ Bible? Is ‘a’ Bible still a Bible? is ‘the’ Bible still the Bible? If the Bible isnt the Bible and if a Bible isnt a Bible what are they?
So in my post that you quoted you can see that arsenokoites is better translated homosexual offenders or abusers of mankind as actions rather than just homosexuals, though one can soon see homosexuals means same-sex offenders.

The NIV is a bible. An interpretation of the Bible. So can I assume that you don't consider the word of God and the bible as the same thing?

 

[Brieuse]

I already told you. "Arsen" means "male", and "koitai" means "beds", there is no proof that this word means "homosexual", it is a gigantic leap. The word is obscure and unknown. The best translation I've seen so far, is a promiscuous man.

I don't have a problem with you saying it's in the NIV, as that is fact, but that doesn't make the translation accurate.

what he said

 

[Floatingaxe]

what he said

What he said is wishful thinking. Men and beds lends easily to men in beds together! How lame your argument is, to think it means anything else!

 

[Brieuse]

What he said is wishful thinking. Men and beds lends easily to men in beds together! How lame your argument is, to think it means anything else!

How lame of you to think it means what you said. Firstly, the only thing "together" are the two words