A quick poll (out of interest)

[Andy Broadley]

I think Vic has a valid point. Bill Booth didnt set out to build a church, but that's what we are. This is not universally accepted by Salvos. To them, we are a 'movement' not a church,l with 'corps' not churches. And the way things are going financially in the UK I can sadly see a time where the church/corps side of the Army is increasingly removed. Corps which cannot finance themselves independantly are going to come under increasing scrutiny. Many are already being closed. We rely on public support. The public supports our social work, not our worship.

True.

Sad, but true

 

[Victrixa]

And the way things are going financially in the UK I can sadly see a time where the church/corps side of the Army is increasingly removed. Corps which cannot finance themselves independantly are going to come under increasing scrutiny. Many are already being closed. We rely on public support. The public supports our social work, not our worship.

How very sad... a movement (and so it is... but become church) with such glorious beginnings.... :cry I shall pray more for the S.A.

 

[Ave Maria]

I honestly don't know as I'm not a member of the Salvation Army but I voted the first option.

Nice poll Andy!

 

[J21]

I voted ' need more debate'. I'm not against communion nor Baptism, but the word 'should be' kinda threw me. We have the chance for partaking of communion now and then within the 4pm Prayer meeting, which suits those who wish to do this.
I wasn't brought up with communion, yet partake of it if I am within a Baptist church service. I do wish to be baptised by water, as an 'outward' sign of the faith I hold in our God, but know that I have been baptised within solely by His Holy Spirit..so if I never get to do this outwardly, it does not matter.
I prefer giving people the choice, rather than stating "we should" have this or that.

 

[Andy Broadley]

I voted ' need more debate'. I'm not against communion nor Baptism, but the word 'should be' kinda threw me. We have the chance for partaking of communion now and then within the 4pm Prayer meeting, which suits those who wish to do this.
I wasn't brought up with communion, yet partake of it if I am within a Baptist church service. I do wish to be baptised by water, as an 'outward' sign of the faith I hold in our God, but know that I have been baptised within solely by His Holy Spirit..so if I never get to do this outwardly, it does not matter.
I prefer giving people the choice, rather than stating "we should" have this or that.

Thats also how I voted.

Generally speaking we do not have the choice within the UK Army, but I do believe that the world in which the Army serves has changed considerably in the 140 years since General Booth opened fire in the Mile End Road, and perhaps it is time that the Army took the time to evaluate it's position in light of that.

Personally, if I visit another church and have the opportunity to take communion, then I do so, and have no problems with that.

It is certainly time that the Army looked seriously at this issue, and others.

 

[David Brider]

If I might add my two penn'orth rather belatedly to this discussion...

I was brought up in an Anglican church where communion was every Sunday, without fail. After I went to university and became a Christian I joined a Methodist church, where (because of the ruling that communion should be administered by an ordained minister and the fact that there are less ministers than church buildings) communion was twice a month if that. I'm now part of the newfrontiers fellowship where communion is a very sporadic thing. However, I'm going out with a Salvationist and often attend worship at her corps. Where communion per se is, erm, never.

Personally, I don't feel that communion should become something that is done just for the sake of it - I don't feel that any part of our worship should be for the sake of it, and if it is, then we need to re-assess why we do it. But on the other hand, whenever I am meeting with a church fellowship that's having a communion service, it's something very very special to me; in one moment, we're celebrating both the fact that we are in Christ, and also the fact that we are part of this whole body of believers that stretches across the globe and back (at least) a couple of thousand years, represented by these few dozen people that I'm sharing a building with. And I just think, wow, isn't God awesome??!

I kind of think that on the one hand salvation army churches miss out by not having communion services (and although I understand and appreciate Booth's reasoning for not having communion as part of the service, I'd also point out that it's quite possible to have grape juice or something else non-alcoholic).

OTOH, maybe there's more to real communion than sticking to the letter of it - eating the bread and drinking the wine? I mean, after most services with churches of any denomination, there's usually the oppoortunity to stay behind and share in a cup of tea or coffee, a biscuit or several, and a friendly chat. Isn't that a wonderfully edifying thing? Heck, we had a wonderful time the Sunday before Christmas - the band were out carolling outside one of the local supermarkets, and my girlfriend and I went with them to help with the collection, and it was an absolutely wonderful couple of hours of real communion with each other, with God, and with a whole crowd of people going into the supermarket and becoming a part of the worship that afternoon.

As for baptism, I'm very much a believer's baptism person (not quite sure where the SA stands on that particular issue?). I'm all for anyone who feels that it's right for them to do so being baptised in front of their fellowship, and I guess the ideal scenario for that would be as part of the regular worship.

FWIW,

David.

 

[Andy Broadley]

If I might add my two penn'orth rather belatedly to this discussion...

I was brought up in an Anglican church where communion was every Sunday, without fail. After I went to university and became a Christian I joined a Methodist church, where (because of the ruling that communion should be administered by an ordained minister and the fact that there are less ministers than church buildings) communion was twice a month if that. I'm now part of the newfrontiers fellowship where communion is a very sporadic thing. However, I'm going out with a Salvationist and often attend worship at her corps. Where communion per se is, erm, never.

Personally, I don't feel that communion should become something that is done just for the sake of it - I don't feel that any part of our worship should be for the sake of it, and if it is, then we need to re-assess why we do it. But on the other hand, whenever I am meeting with a church fellowship that's having a communion service, it's something very very special to me; in one moment, we're celebrating both the fact that we are in Christ, and also the fact that we are part of this whole body of believers that stretches across the globe and back (at least) a couple of thousand years, represented by these few dozen people that I'm sharing a building with. And I just think, wow, isn't God awesome??!

I kind of think that on the one hand salvation army churches miss out by not having communion services (and although I understand and appreciate Booth's reasoning for not having communion as part of the service, I'd also point out that it's quite possible to have grape juice or something else non-alcoholic).

OTOH, maybe there's more to real communion than sticking to the letter of it - eating the bread and drinking the wine? I mean, after most services with churches of any denomination, there's usually the oppoortunity to stay behind and share in a cup of tea or coffee, a biscuit or several, and a friendly chat. Isn't that a wonderfully edifying thing? Heck, we had a wonderful time the Sunday before Christmas - the band were out carolling outside one of the local supermarkets, and my girlfriend and I went with them to help with the collection, and it was an absolutely wonderful couple of hours of real communion with each other, with God, and with a whole crowd of people going into the supermarket and becoming a part of the worship that afternoon.

As for baptism, I'm very much a believer's baptism person (not quite sure where the SA stands on that particular issue?). I'm all for anyone who feels that it's right for them to do so being baptised in front of their fellowship, and I guess the ideal scenario for that would be as part of the regular worship.

FWIW,

David.

Great post David, and thank you for sharing with us.

Another variant on this was one we had at our corps on Sunday, which was literally a cafe church.

The chairs where arranged in little groups around small tables, laden with mince pies etc.

Refreshments were served half way through, and the whole thing was entirely informal.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that this should be the way to go on a regular basis, but it did bring a closeness and sharing that might not be as present in a normal meeting setting.

Another way forward could be to hold a more regular version of the faith supper, which seems popular in many corps on the Thursday before easter, where the last supper is literally replicated, with bread, cheese etc.

Could this not become a monthly or even fortnightly event? Perhaps sgared among three or four corps.

This is surely a more authentic and realistic way of observing communion than the fancy ornementation practiced in some churches.

Finally, I agree that communion for the sake of it is pointless, but lest there be any misunderstanding on this issue, ALL my frinds in the Catholic church take the Eucharist very seriously indeed, and I know of none who see it as merely ritual.

I can't accept their belief in transubstansiation, but I can certainly respect them for their devotion to it.