A question to YECs

[ThePhoenix]

Where is all the Iridium coming from? Iridium can only be made inside the heart of large stars. It is expelled during a supernova. But that presents a problem for the YEC model. The matter from supernovas couldn't possibly reach the earth in the time the universe has supposedly been in existance. Yet the earth contains numerous Iridium deposits from meteor strikes, we've found meteors with Iridium in them, a clear impossibility if the universe isn't millions and millions (or billions and billions) of years old.

 

[Jet Black]

sounds interesting, could you post some links or sources?

 

[ThePhoenix]

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/010125a.html
Very informitive, but a LOT longer then the first link
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele077.html

Third one is an Iridium in asteroids link. It's the best I could find in a relatively short time, I'll try and find better (it keeps getting mentioned about 2/3rds of the way down a 15 page document). Just run a google search on Iridium is common in asteroids and you'll get a lot of results.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Here is nice page on the iridium layer that appears in clays deposited at the K-T boundary.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geophys/iridium.html

Since this is 65 million years ago and in deposits that YECs claim to be flood deposits, one wonders how dust containing iridium got laid down uniformly in correlative strata around the globe during a raging worldwide flood.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[webboffin]

Another stump the YEC post huh? lol

Those poor guys are treated like lepers

 

[Drotar]

Note: According to the YEC model, it is 10,000 years give or take AFTER the Fall.

Who is to say that before the Fall, Adam and Eve did not live with God in paradise for a long enough time for those elements to get here.

I'll check the sites. I kind of like the Science section because there is always so much to learn from. TTYL Jesus lvoes you!

 

[Jet Black]

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/010125a.html
Very informitive, but a LOT longer then the first link
http://education.jlab.org/itselemental/ele077.html

Third one is an Iridium in asteroids link. It's the best I could find in a relatively short time, I'll try and find better (it keeps getting mentioned about 2/3rds of the way down a 15 page document). Just run a google search on Iridium is common in asteroids and you'll get a lot of results.

that's cool thanks. heh, if I am being lazy or you don't have anything to hand, just tell me that "google is my friend"

 

[ThePhoenix]

So Adam and Eve spent 12 billion years in Eden (give or take)? Hmm, it makes more sense then most YEC theories, and wouldn't even involve a disproof of evolution (since Adam and Eve could have spent all the time that life was evolving in paradise). At that point the entire creation story becomes metephorical of course, and it's impossible to argue metephor.

 

[Jet Black]

yeah, and it makes one wonder why te only bit that isn't metaphor is adam and eve. It would probably create some self destructive theological catastrophe.

 

[Arikay]

Thats not the normal YEC model I know. I believe that would be an OEC stance.

YEC models have Creation at 6000 - 12000 years ago. Not the fall, but creation.

Note: According to the YEC model, it is 10,000 years give or take AFTER the Fall.

Who is to say that before the Fall, Adam and Eve did not live with God in paradise for a long enough time for those elements to get here.

I'll check the sites. I kind of like the Science section because there is always so much to learn from. TTYL Jesus lvoes you!

 

[Drotar]

No, no. You misunderstand me.

The only way you can be fundamentalist is to be a YEC.

Remember, that NOTHING died before the Fall of man. Death entered the world resulting from the moral actions of man.

Thus, evolution could not have occured. At any rate.

Since they hadn't yet fallen, they were immortal. No time limit is given, so therefore perhaps Adam and Eve, just as human as we are, lived immortally in the Garden before the Fall for many years.

And, come to think of it, that's wrong. It is estimated that around 8-12,000 years ago (perhaps 15), a supernova happened that caused many things.

Where did I learn this? Just about 15 minutes ago from a carbon-dating website. They explain the need for calibration, and what might have caused that. They refer to a supernova near our galaxy:

Here's the link: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/carbon14.shtml?main

Wow, my first intelligible answer.

Any more questions on the link, I'll be here. TTYL Jesus loves you!

 

[Drotar]

Yeah, check the site.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm sure that the claim that there was no recent supernova is wrong.

 

[ThePhoenix]

I said that there wasn't any supernova recent enough to get the material to us. Iridium asteroids do NOT travel at the speed of light. The maximum speed for an asteroid in our asteroid belt is about 20 km/s. At that rate (about .07c) the star would have to be less then 700 light years away, and have had a supernova 10000 years ago. From that the majority of the Iridium containing asteroids must have been expelled, headed towards earth, and been captured by our gravity well where they settled into orbit IN LINE WITH THE SOLAR DISK?!? That's right, the entire solar system with the exception of Pluto is on the same plane. Since the asteroid belt shares that plane it seems likely it formed with the sun. But it can't, since there couldn't have been any pre-sol supernovas that occured close enough to send Iridium during solar formation. Therefore the asteroids must have coincidentally settled on the exact solar plane of our system.

 

[TCapp]

Since they hadn't yet fallen, they were immortal. No time limit is given, so therefore perhaps Adam and Eve, just as human as we are, lived immortally in the Garden before the Fall for many years.

Not to argue against you, as I am in your camp... but that seems like odd reasoning to me. I concede it's possible (I wasn't there to take notes). But they were told to multiply. These folks are newlyweds. They were excited (no innuendo intended) about each other. They had a command. I don't think they'd take too long to make babies... and I feel pretty certain that their first child was conceived after the fall.

Just a thought.

 

[Drotar]

Yeah, I don't agree with it. I'm YE.

BTW, how on earth did you get that many blessings?

Like I said, I'm going to have to do a lot more thinking.

 

[Drotar]

Could that supernova had been more than 700 light years?

And an asteroid shooting out from a star that just exploded might go faster than that right?

I think the site talks about it.

 

[Jet Black]

Could that supernova had been more than 700 light years?

And an asteroid shooting out from a star that just exploded might go faster than that right?

I think the site talks about it.

if there are any nearby supernovae, we would have spotted them... and there are no asteroids travelling close to c... this would require a slow acceleration over a long time, since any rapid acceleration would blow the asteroid apart.

 

[TCapp]

BTW, how on earth did you get that many blessings?

http://www.christianforums.com/t53219

Got them a few minutes ago. Still reeling from it. Whew. Ya'll in this thread can have some.

 

[Arikay]

Ive never heard that version of a YEC before, interesting.

I would say, carefull using "reasons", as they arent known for accurate work in some areas.

However, speaking of no death before the fall, I did this up not to long ago, its obviously very rough, and makes assumptions, but its something interesting to think about, since god did tell the animals to be fruitful and multiply,

Fun with bunny math.

After looking up information about bunnies I discovered that they have a main breeding period of about 9 months long, they are constantly in heat, their gestation period is 30 days long, there is an average of 5 - 8 in a litter and they are ready to give birth at around 6 months.

Theoretically that means a bunny can have 9 litters in its main breeding period, and that 2/3s of the way through, the first litter can have babies of its own.

Now the bunnies in my example will be a bit slower, they will have a litter every other month for around 5 litters a year, they will have 6 bunnies per litter (3 male, 3 female, to keep things simple), and they will not breed after birth until the following year.

The Surface area of the earth is 5,502,066,736,020,795.345 square feet.

Year 1: 1 pair of bunnies breed 6 kids 5 times. 30 new bunnies, 32 total.
2: 16 PB breed 6 kids 5 times each. 480 new bunnies, plus 32, 512 total.
3: 256 PB breed 7680 new bunnies, plus 512, 8192 total
4: 131072 total.
...
12: 281474976710656 total pairs or 562,949,953,421,312 Total Bunnies.
13: 4503599627370496 total Pairs or 9,007,199,254,740,992 Total bunnies.

So, inbetween 12 years and 13 years, if no bunny dies, and the population is never kept in check, there will be the same amount of bunnies as total square footage on the Earth (including over the ocean). After 13 years there will be more.

Now, remember, this is Just bunnies and no other animal. Of course, the multiplacation rate could be much lower, but like I said, just something to think about if there was no death before the fall (and the fall didnt happen quickly).

No, no. You misunderstand me.

The only way you can be fundamentalist is to be a YEC.

Remember, that NOTHING died before the Fall of man. Death entered the world resulting from the moral actions of man.

Thus, evolution could not have occured. At any rate.

Since they hadn't yet fallen, they were immortal. No time limit is given, so therefore perhaps Adam and Eve, just as human as we are, lived immortally in the Garden before the Fall for many years.

And, come to think of it, that's wrong. It is estimated that around 8-12,000 years ago (perhaps 15), a supernova happened that caused many things.

Where did I learn this? Just about 15 minutes ago from a carbon-dating website. They explain the need for calibration, and what might have caused that. They refer to a supernova near our galaxy:

Here's the link: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/carbon14.shtml?main

Wow, my first intelligible answer.

Any more questions on the link, I'll be here. TTYL Jesus loves you!

 

[wblastyn]

Remember, that NOTHING died before the Fall of man. Death entered the world resulting from the moral actions of man.

If no one died then how would everyone fit on the earth with the high birth rate but no death rate?

You could argue that God did not want Adam and Eve to reproduce before the Fall, but then why did He give them reproductive organs.