A Question Regarding Recovery

[RachelZ]

Hi, I have a question...it came really out of reading someone's post tonight...I don't know how to do quotes but I've copied and pasted it below:

"You see Pics, there comes a time(I like to call it a breaking point) where you have taken in so much knowledge and so much theology and there is nothing left to do that you have to completely rely on GOD and deal with your struggles as OCD.

Thats how it was for me. When I finally said "Condemned or not, im going to live for God regardless of OCD or anything""

It was posted by JC9992 and his final sentence above kind of spoke to me...I know that with OCD whatever it picks on you have to take a leap of faith to treat it as OCD or potentially forever be trapped in a cycle of ruminating and varying degrees of torment. I know better times can happen but the OCD seems to sneak back up and knock you over again and again. I thought about what JC said about living for God regardless and I guess it applies to other areas of OCD too...I get ROCD although even saying that I think well is it or are you just hiding from the truth? But I know that with ROCD you need to take the leap to live as if it's that and not some real puzzle to be worked out and unlocked. My problem, and I guess many others too, is taking that leap of faith and sometimes needing to take it again and again. ie To treat it as OCD and not either a real tangible problem or God's conviction. My question is for anyone who doesn't mind sharing how they got that point. I don't mean loads of details, just what finally made you strong enough to treat it as OCD. If that's too personal a question I apologise...guess I'm just hoping that maybe other's experiences may help me get a bit more courage and resolve.

Many thanks, Rachel

 

[BeccaLynn]

Rachel,

I'm in a stage of recovery. I don't know that I'll ever consider myself "recovered" actually, but I'm nowhere close to how I used to be. I was a mess. The thing that finally got through to me to where I was actuallyeven willing to be open and listen to the truth that I had ocd as opposed to a sickened heart that refused God was what my minister said once during a sermon. He said something along the lines of this... "Craziness is doing the same things the same way and expecting different results. If you want things to change, you've got to do things differently". Well, I wanted things to change, and I had definitely knocked my head, or so it seemed, against the wall so many times trying to figure everything out, only to seem stuck in an endless web of tangled and tormenting thoughts, that I decided I had to get to the point of being willing to listen. A minister friend told me for years that I struggled with an emotional illness, not a spiritual one (although we all have sinned and have a spiritual condition), yet I felt if I listened to him that I would just be listening to what I wanted to hear, that I was okay with God, and refusing what I knew was true, that I was lost. Finally, after over half of my life being spent in tormenting fear, I decided that I was going to have to listen to get any kind of peace. Something that I've also decided is that God placed this man in my life since before I was born. I've known him my entire life. He's kind of like a second dad to me. So, I look at it now like God has blessed me with him being in my life all along to help me, but only when I was willing to let him. I had to get to the point that nothing else had helped, and this was God's way of getting me to realize that I really do have an emotional illness. That's how I even have been able to get beyond the point of just existing. I actually feel as if I can live now, so it must be God. This may not be the kind of story you're looking for, but it was a real turning point for me.
Oh, by the way, I do understand what you meant in your previous post about being so glad someone else understands, but not being glad that it's because I've gone through it. I felt so alone before this site. It was like I was an island to myself, but it has helped so much to have others who can relate to me. It has offered me tremendous encouragement. Thanks also for your kind words about my mother and me in the same post. They are much appreciated.

Love,
Rebecca

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

Hi everybody!!

I don't have too much time to post right now... I was just wondering... what is ROCD?

 

[RachelZ]

Hi pilgrims progress...sorry, ROCD is Relationship OCD...basically it's where the OCD latches onto someone you're dating, married too or even an ex...hope that helps!

Thanks so much Rebecca...yes that is what I'm looking for, just real people's turning points, so thanks for sharing yours. I think what I should have included in my initial post was that even thinking about doing what JC did starts to fill me with a terrible feeling of dread...I just don't know how to get beyond that. And even when I do and have made the leap with the ROCD in the past I end up back to doubting myself and feeling like a fraud.

I'm so pleased that God has put that man in your life...I know God has provided me with people who have really helped. My best friend understands where I am coming from to an incredible degree and has been a real star at helping to point me back to treating it as OCD. I think the closest consitent positive way I try and treat it is to think "That's OCD thinking!" when I get the thoughts and feelings.

Anyway, thanks again for your post...take care, Rachel

 

[gracealone]

Hi Rachel,
I'd have to say that there hasn't ever been a sudden dramatic turning point for me with any of my OCD obsessions. For me it's been a very gradual process that I have had to measure over the long haul. When I look back at how I was 6 months ago in comparison to how I am now I am able to see major improvement. For me the key for my toughest obsessions was doing more than just letting them be there without attending to them. I had to get really agressive with them by doing exposure. That was and is really tough in the beginning because we want desperately not to have those thoughts and the idea of encouraging or even exaggerating them,(worse case scenario's), seems paradoxical to want we think we should do. Also I had to learn that I can't unthink a thought. I had to accept the presence of the thoughts and not measure my progress by the fact that they still pop into my head. Progress is best measured by my reaction to the thought. Do I being the mental warfare against it or do I just take a deep breath, ignore it and get on with life. Amazingly it was just this week that I realized that one obsession that I've been dealing with for about a year and a half no longer had the ability to freak me out. When that thought popped into my head I realized that I'd become so used to it's presence through exposure that I didn't even get the tiniest stab of anxiety from it. I've never been able to "forget" any of my obsessional thoughts but that doesn't matter what matters is that I've learned how to manage them instead of them managing me.
I believe OCD is a chronic condition but that doesn't mean it can't be controlled and managed to the point that we don't suffer so much from it.
My motto when my OCD tries to get my attention is to say, "So what, walk on, persevere.
Praying for you,
Mitzi

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

Hi Rachel, I have had to take "the leap" over and over again, too. Just yesterday as I was praying I started spiking about "what if I was never truly a Christian or believed? what if I don't really believe in God because I don't have a faith like some other strong Christian believers I have known?" To me, it is SO HARD to see the irrationality of obsessions relating to religion and relationships, because people without OCD go through the same sort of crisis all the time.

My OCD has really run the gamut these past two weeks, from fearing I have cancer to fearing my husband is cheating to fearing I'm gay to fearing I'm not really a Christian. I cannot, like some OCDers, see the illogical nature of these obsessions. I worry a LOT that all of this pain is not really OCD but rather my "true self" or "true feelings" emerging. It's really hard.

Where I start to go down the slipppery slope of obsessing is when I get lazy with exposure. I will usually go through a week of hard exposure, find that my thoughts lessen to where I barely think about them, and go a few weeks feeling great before I get another spike and I find myself responding to it. Before I know it, I'm back to feeling anxious and obsessive, and have to start all over again. I have gone from fearing I have cancer to fearing my husband is cheating, to fearing what if I'm really attracted to women to what if I was never really a Christian in the first place? It's been an exhausting two weeks! Where I slip up too is when I have a spike after a few good days, I get upset that it's still there and maybe it's not OCD after all.

However, the thing I keep coming back to is the ability to choose. If there is one thing I have control over with this battle with OCD is that I still control my actions and choices. Can I accept that I MIGHT not believe in God (ugh just saying that makes me nervous)? Yes, but I still choose to go to church and bible study. Can I accept that my marriage MIGHT not be right? Yes, but I choose to still act lovingly towards my husband and contribute all I can to our marriage. Can I accept that I might prefer women? Ew, I suppose so, but I choose to be in a heterosexual relationship. Can I accept that I might die of cancer next week? Sure, but I can also choose to live my life as fully as possible and take the risk that I might live another 70 years or I might get hit by a bus tomorrow.

 

[kaykay9.0]

This is good stuff, all of it! Thanks for sharing your stories, ladies! Where I still get hung up in fighting OCD is the OCDish thought within itself, I think, that Rachel or one of you mentioned, "What if it's NOT OCD THIS time?" What if this is a real spiritual situation I need to attend to and take action on? THIS is pretty much where I struggle now. When I'm being more rational, I can see that the pattern of things I've obsessed about is quite simply OCD. I can readily see it in OTHER people's obsessions! I can see it looking back even in my own, but it's harder to see with a CURRENT, "NEW" obsession.

How do you convince yourself to "take the risk" that it's OCD and not feel you are "neglecting" something by not "attending" to it or trying to "solve" it? Particularly if it involves something "spiritual?" I know it's a process.

If I have had a point of turning, it's been admitting that I do struggle with OCD. A counselor identified it and for a some time I was kinda in denial about it. (Even though it should have been a tip-off that I was a "handwasher" for awhile as a child. And I had never even mentioned that to my counselor!) For me to even see it for what it is was a huge step for me and was very empowering in and of itself.

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

kaykay I totally relate, especially about seeing it in other sufferers, but not seeing our own OCD! Along with that is reading countless stories of fellow OCDers with the exact same obsessions or exact same thought process and you still can't convince yourself it's OCD. Guess that's why it's the doubting disease.

 

[picassoui]

This is good stuff, all of it! Thanks for sharing your stories, ladies! Where I still get hung up in fighting OCD is the OCDish thought within itself, I think, that Rachel or one of you mentioned, "What if it's NOT OCD THIS time?" What if this is a real spiritual situation I need to attend to and take action on? THIS is pretty much where I struggle now. When I'm being more rational, I can see that the pattern of things I've obsessed about is quite simply OCD. I can readily see it in OTHER people's obsessions! I can see it looking back even in my own, but it's harder to see with a CURRENT, "NEW" obsession.

How do you convince yourself to "take the risk" that it's OCD and not feel you are "neglecting" something by not "attending" to it or trying to "solve" it? Particularly if it involves something "spiritual?" I know it's a process.

If I have had a point of turning, it's been admitting that I do struggle with OCD. A counselor identified it and for a some time I was kinda in denial about it. (Even though it should have been a tip-off that I was a "handwasher" for awhile as a child. And I had never even mentioned that to my counselor!) For me to even see it for what it is was a huge step for me and was very empowering in and of itself.

the what if s .. because i think its wrong not to adresse the what ifs at times ..some will say its counter productive but is it ..or is it adressing a valid concern.

 

[seajoy]

the what if s .. because i think its wrong not to adresse the what ifs at times ..some will say its counter productive but is it ..or is it adressing a valid concern.

It is counter-productive in the realm of OCD. I what-if'd myself for 8yrs. I never got one bit better. When I accepted my illness and asked God to take over and do what He willed with me, I was then able to do the therapy and trust in His loving care. Everytime we try to "figure out" our obsessions, we are taking a step backwards. Just like skipping your insulin if you are diabetic.

 

[picassoui]

It is counter-productive in the realm of OCD. I what-if'd myself for 8yrs. I never got one bit better. When I accepted my illness and asked God to take over and do what He willed with me, I was then able to do the therapy and trust in His loving care. Every time we try to "figure out" our obsessions, we are taking a step backwards. Just like skipping your insulin if you are diabetic.

not every concern an ocd patient has is ocd related however just like every time a depression patient feels the blues does not mean that have relapsed ..
i see where you are comming from sea joy in part but i don't agree that it always a bad thing to question to examine these concerns .i think it is quite healthy and productive at times ... but i digress because i have a tendency to engage on other peoples threads ,,,, i wish the poster of this one the best and i know we both agree on that

 

[RachelZ]

Hi everyone and thank you so much for all your replies...hope it's a thread that might help others too!!

I agree Mitzi that OCD may well be with me lifelong but that there is hope to manage it and improve it! I identified with your expression of a thought "freaking you out!" That's just the sort of way I would describe it! It's helpful to see that whereas for some they had a sudden moment of actively accepting and treating their OCD, for others it may be a more gradula process. I know for me that when I first came accross Pure O it was like finally finding a key, and then there was the relief when I was diagnosed; but since then I've had to come back to accepting it again and again. I think I can accept the diagnosis in general cos it does seem to fit but it's actually allowing that diagnosis to positively influence how I view and deal with the thoughts and feelings that is so much harder! Thanks again for your posts, it's good to hear from you again and thanks for your prayer!

And it's good to hear from you too Sad...thanks for what your wrote. I really felt for you when you were describing the difficult time you are having; I really hope and pray it improves for you soon! I could so identify with what you said about not being able to see the illogical nature of your thoughts and fearing they are revealing your true self...I struggle with that so much myself. I agree as well about the choice to live in spite of the feelings. I think that is so important and it was something you or Mitzi said a while ago that has influenced the way I try and handle things I think. I have to be honest hear and own up that I haven't really been doing the ERP...I try and relabel the thinking as OCD type thinking but I guess I'm noty aggressively attacking it head on. It's hard enough doing that with the ROCD but I really don't get how I can do it with offensive thoughts/images cos if I purposefully bring them on I would feel like I was sinning. Anyway, many thanks again...hope you're having a better day!

Hi again Rebecca...I agree, some good stuff is being written! I could so relate to your fears relating to what if it's NOT OCD this time! I can't seem to consistently get over that hurdle of taking the risk and treating it as OCD. I find it almost terrifying to think of getting it wrong...bad enough with the relationship side of this which is my biggy and worst, but with the spritiual side I can't work out how to live with the doubt that I could get stuff wrong with God and risk His judgement. I hope you get some help with that and if and when you do I'd love to hear what helped you if it was OK to share that!

Hi Picassoui and Seajoy and thanks for your input. I can really understand your struggle Picassoui as I too worry about not dealing with something that could potentially be important. I can also see where Seajoy is coming from. Something that helped me with this dilemma was to realise that whether or not there was any truth or importance in a spike, worry, rumination or whatever you want to call it, it was the OCD thinking that had to be dealt with first. When the erroneous way of thinking has been addressed then whatever concerns are left can be tackled far more rationally. When I'm in a high state of anxiety that is not the best time for me to figure out stuff. Yes i totally agree that we will have questions and even worries about thing, and that is normal...but it's the way we think and feel about stuff that is abnormal and as such we can't be trusted to perceive or conclude things accurately when we are thinking in an OCD type way. An example could be asking someone with a broken leg, fractured pelvis and concussion to nip round to the shops. Nipping round to the shops is a normal and good thing to do and it would be very unhealthy and unhelpful if a well person refused our request. But you can't expect someone with all those injuries to be able to even make it out of the house without help. First they need treatment and recovey...then they can do excercise and run errands like other people do. Does that make sense? I hope so...guess I'm trying to say that it may be wise to treat the faulty thinking and feeling first and then you'll be in a better place to see what problems are still left that you need to resolve. The chances are a lot of the issues may well dissapear and any that are left won't feel as terrifying and tormenting to you.

Hope that helps...thanks again to everyone...take care, Rachel

 

[picassoui]

Hi everyone and thank you so much for all your replies...hope i'ts a thread that might help others too!!

I agree Mitzi that OCD may well be with me lifelong but that there is hope to manage it and improve it! I identified with your expression of a thought "freaking you out!" That's just the sort of way I would describe it! It's helpful to see that whereas for some they had a sudden moment of actively accepting and treating their OCD, for others it may be a more gradula process. I know for me that when I first came accross Pure O it was like finally finding a key, and then there was the relief when I was diagnosed; but since then I've had to come back to accepting it again and again. I think I can accept the diagnosis in general cos it does seem to fit but it's actually allowing that diagnosis to positively influence how I view and deal with the thoughts and feelings that is so much harder! Thanks again for your posts, it's good to hear from you again and thanks for your prayer!

And it's good to hear from you too Sad...thanks for what your wrote. I really felt for you when you were describing the difficult time you are having; I really hope and pray it improves for you soon! I could so identify with what you said about not being able to see the illogical nature of your thoughts and fearing they are revealing your true self...I struggle with that so much myself. I agree as well about the choice to live in spite of the feelings. I think that is so important and it was something you or Mitzi said a while ago that has influenced the way I try and handle things I think. I have to be honest hear and own up that I haven't really been doing the ERP...I try and relabel the thinking as OCD type thinking but I guess I'm noty aggressively attacking it head on. It's hard enough doing that with the ROCD but I really don't get how I can do it with offensive thoughts/images cos if I purposefully bring them on I would feel like I was sinning. Anyway, many thanks again...hope you're having a better day!

Hi again Rebecca...I agree, some good stuff is being written! I could so relate to your fears relating to what if it's NOT OCD this time! I can't seem to consistently get over that hurdle of taking the risk and treating it as OCD. I find it almost terrifying to think of getting it wrong...bad enough with the relationship side of this which is my biggy and worst, but with the spritiual side I can't work out how to live with the doubt that I could get stuff wrong with God and risk His judgement. I hope you get some help with that and if and when you do I'd love to hear what helped you if it was OK to share that!

Hi Picassoui and Seajoy and thanks for your input. I can really understand your struggle Picassoui as I too worry about not dealing with something that could potentially be important. I can also see where Seajoy is coming from. Something that helped me with this dilemma was to realise that whether or not there was any truth or importance in a spike, worry, rumination or whatever you want to call it, it was the OCD thinking that had to be dealt with first. When the erroneous way of thinking has been addressed then whatever concerns are left can be tackled far more rationally. When I'm in a high state of anxiety that is not the best time for me to figure out stuff. Yes i totally agree that we will have questions and even worries about thing, and that is normal...but it's the way we think and feel about stuff that is abnormal and as such we can't be trusted to perceive or conclude things accurately when we are thinking in an OCD type way. An example could be asking someone with a broken leg, fractured pelvis and concussion to nip round to the shops. Nipping round to the shops is a normal and good thing to do and it would be very unhealthy and unhelpful if a well person refused our request. But you can't expect someone with all those injuries to be able to even make it out of the house without help. First they need treatment and recovey...then they can do excercise and run errands like other people do. Does that make sense? I hope so...guess I'm trying to say that it may be wise to treat the faulty thinking and feeling first and then you'll be in a better place to see what problems are still left that you need to resolve. The chances are a lot of the issues may well dissapear and any that are left won't feel as terrifying and tormenting to you.

Hope that helps...thanks again to everyone...take care, Rachel

Rachel i think the greatest handicap you can have is to think of yourself as not being capable of discerning what is important and what is not ... OCD sufferes have no need to debase themselves like this . Never ever allow anothers judgment whether or not it is a psychiatrist or member of this forum to replace youre own. As you can tell i believe in thinking for ones self .. And im not saying you are not doing that . Its just that regardless of what the mentall illness is we always tend to become childlike and think that someone else knows better than we know ourselves and that is a shame.

 

[RachelZ]

I absolutely agree that it is important to think for oneself but when I am in a state of high anxiety what I believe and perceive can be very much distorted. I don't have a desire to be childlike and actually find it quite hard to believe others rational input when I am thinking with my feelings. I am not easily calmed down and can come up with a load of "What if's?" to counter other's advice with. However, when I am like that I have learned that my ruminating doesn't usually get me anywhere positive...or if it does it's not permanent. This is in contrast to when I am not thinking through a cloud of anxiety and can analyse and reach conclusions in what I think is a far more healthy way. I do hear what you're saying but all I can say is if I can't turn to other's to help me understand OCD better and try and trust them at least to some degree then I'm a bit stuffed. I absolutely agree that it would be unhealthy to allow others' judgements to replace my own...I guess I'm just looking for wisdom, advice and understanding from others who can empathise and who also may have had more experience and success with treating their OCD than I have. I really hope that I'm not doing this in a bad or unhealthy way. Hope that makes sense...take care, Rachel

 

[seajoy]

I absolutely agree that it is important to think for oneself but when I am in a state of high anxiety what I believe and perceive can be very much distorted. I don't have a desire to be childlike and actually find it quite hard to believe others rational input when I am thinking with my feelings. I am not easily calmed down and can come up with a load of "What if's?" to counter other's advice with. However, when I am like that I have learned that my ruminating doesn't usually get me anywhere positive...or if it does it's not permanent. This is in contrast to when I am not thinking through a cloud of anxiety and can analyse and reach conclusions in what I think is a far more healthy way. I do hear what you're saying but all I can say is if I can't turn to other's to help me understand OCD better and try and trust them at least to some degree then I'm a bit stuffed. I absolutely agree that it would be unhealthy to allow others' judgements to replace my own...I guess I'm just looking for wisdom, advice and understanding from others who can empathise and who also may have had more experience and success with treating their OCD than I have. I really hope that I'm not doing this in a bad or unhealthy way. Hope that makes sense...take care, Rachel

Good post.

When one is in the throws of OCD, it's very difficult to think rationally. When I was first diagnosed, I thought that my thoughts were way worse than anyone else who had ever had OCD, and that mine was somehow different and not treatable like other folks. I found out differently when I finally did the therapy. It works.

God has helped many folks through what I've told about over the past 2yrs, here on this forum. I do not try and be a doctor, but I do guide people to seek out a psychiatrist so as to get the proper diagnosis and treatment. I have several friends here who have come and gone from this forum, and have been helped. Some still keep in contact with me. I just received a message from someone here about how much they were helped in the past 6 months by what I told them to do. It makes my heart glad. One more person found out that God takes care of their faith....it does not have to be a constant concern. Jesus wants us to be comforted in the fact that we are saved though Him. He does not want us to live in constant fear.

May you be blessed as you work your way through these struggles. The Lord will help you come out shining on the other side.

 

[RachelZ]

Thanks Seajoy and sorry I didn't get a chance to get back to you sooner. I really needed the encouragement of your post when I read it yesterday so thank you!! Think I'm going through another OCD blip at the moment and really worrying about how to determine whether it's OCD or denial fuelled anxiety. I hear what Picassoui says and agree that not all thoughts are purely OCD but this freaks me out cos maybe I have just believed what I wanted then. I've worried before that when people say it's the anxiety that points to it being an OCD thought but I get anxious even about stuff that may be true so how can you tell? Aghhh...anyway, so glad God has helped you so much. Thanks again, take care, Rachel

 

[picassoui]

Thanks Seajoy and sorry I didn't get a chance to get back to you sooner. I really needed the encouragement of your post when I read it yesterday so thank you!! Think I'm going through another OCD blip at the moment and really worrying about how to determine whether it's OCD or denial fuelled anxiety. I hear what Picassoui says and agree that not all thoughts are purely OCD but this freaks me out cos maybe I have just believed what I wanted then. I've worried before that when people say it's the anxiety that points to it being an OCD thought but I get anxious even about stuff that may be true so how can you tell? Aghhh...anyway, so glad god has helped you so much. Thanks again, take care, Rachel

Rachel what I was talking about was someone labelling every concern OCD .
in matters regarding salvation as in you're personal relationship with God , it was God who created the faith in you by the power of the Holy Ghost to begin with so you did not believe what you just wanted to believe.It is God's work from begining to end.

You're reply was not adressed to me but i just wanted to reassure you and say that i don't want any thing i say to cause you to doubt .. or compromise you're treatment whatsoever.

 

[RachelZ]

Hi Picassoui, thanks for your reply...and also for your PM...it was really kind of you and I did reply but unfortunately couldn't send it as your inbox is full.

I am in total agreement that to label every concern as OCD is not good though I also believe that when you're feeling really bad OCD can colour many of the thoughts and feelings you have. I don't know about you but when I have a concern that isn't OCD related it feels so different...it feels like something I can handle and figure out or leave with God if I need to but it isn't like the horrible, tormenting, relentless drive to find the one and only answer that the OCD tends to provoke. ANd also it feels like when you decide or hit upon the solution to a normal problem then it's done with and you can let it go...OCD ruminating tends to be like a dog with a bone...you can't let it go; no matter how many answers, solutions and reassurances you get there seems to so often be another "Yeah but what if?" round the next corner!

Don't know if that will help at all...I struggle so much with this very problem myself... I envy others who seem so able to say it feels like OCD so it is OCD and then have the conviction and courage to treat it as such. I'm terrified of getting it wrong...both in terms of then living a life and also in terms of paying the consequences...both in this life and the next. Hope you are having a good weekend...take care, and thanks again, Rachel