A question on Orthodox Communion

[Wisdom's Child]

I have reciently began to explore Orthodoxy and I have a few questions about the Lords Supper from the Orthodox perspective. It is quite apparent that the Orthodox value highly ritual and symbolism to reinforce their faith.
If this is correct, then I can easily accept this for I find much comfort and assurance from a ritualistic form of worship.

Concerning the "Host" or the Body of Christ, It is my understanding that the Orthodox use a round unleavened flour waffer which has a symbol impressed upon it. What are the symbolic meanings to the use of this form of Host?
To help clarify, I have the practice of using Matzo Crackers for my personal and family Communion. The Symbolisms for this involves The Matzo itself which was used in the Passover meal, It is broken as Jesus demonstrated to show His body broken. The Matzo cracker is also pierced like a saltine cracker, but darker in discoloration and Unleavened.
Symbolically showing the bruised and pierced body, pure of Sin (leaven).
Does the "Host" used in the Orthodox service hold similar symbolic meanings?
Is there any Orthodox issues or concerns about the use of the Matzo cracker and the partaking of a "broken" host?

 

[Iacobus]

I have reciently began to explore Orthodoxy and I have a few questions about the Lords Supper from the Orthodox perspective. It is quite apparent that the Orthodox value highly ritual and symbolism to reinforce their faith.
If this is correct, then I can easily accept this for I find much comfort and assurance from a ritualistic form of worship.

Concerning the "Host" or the Body of Christ, It is my understanding that the Orthodox use a round unleavened flour waffer which has a symbol impressed upon it. What are the symbolic meanings to the use of this form of Host?
To help clarify, I have the practice of using Matzo Crackers for my personal and family Communion. The Symbolisms for this involves The Matzo itself which was used in the Passover meal, It is broken as Jesus demonstrated to show His body broken. The Matzo cracker is also pierced like a saltine cracker, but darker in discoloration and Unleavened.
Symbolically showing the bruised and pierced body, pure of Sin (leaven).
Does the "Host" used in the Orthodox service hold similar symbolic meanings?
Is there any Orthodox issues or concerns about the use of the Matzo cracker and the partaking of a "broken" host?

Hi WC

Welcome to TAW. I tried to answer a little while ago, but my computer ate the answer -- kind of the way my dog used to eat my homework. Anyway, I'll try to touch on a couple of things about your post.

First, we used leavened loaves for communion, known as prosphora. I think it is the Roman Catholics that use unleavened wafers. That has never been our custom though. There are symbols on the top of the loaf, and the priest cuts it into pieces in a particular way. After that, it is placed in the chalice with wine, and we take communion from a spoon. If you would like me to dig up the details of the symbols and what not, I'd be happy to.

The second thing is, while we do a lot of symbolic things, we believe that the bread and wine in the chalice is the literal Body and Blood of Christ. We take literally the verses at John 6:53-58.

I know you'll have follow up questions, so feel free to fire away.

James

 

[Moros]

I don't believe Orthodox use Matzo?

 

[xenia]

No matzohs or wafters. Prosphora is regular yeasted bread, made by someone in the congregation.

Love, Xenia

 

[Nikolas222]

The communion is made of up of anditoron (blessed loaves of bread that are usually circular but cut up into cubes), wine, and zeon (holy water). This is always done on sunday at the divine liturgy and never at home because the priest must bless all of the items being used.

How it works is, the priest has the wine already in the chalice. During the service, he puts anditoron into the chalice (a very small amount). The Altar boys heat up the zeon and bring it to the priest when he needs it (In my Greek Orthodox church, i take it when the priest says "Prosphomen (means something like attend)." He puts that in. He receives communion. When ready, after more of the service is said, he takes it out where the laity receives communion. The priest says something in Greek (i dont remember because i dont know much greek, but in english it means "Servant of God") and then the receiver says their baptized name and receives communion. Then, there is an altar boy that is holding a basket with anditoron cubes in it where the communion receiver takes a piece of bread and sits back to where they were sitting. Prayers are either said by everyone or sung by the choir during communion.

If you have any more questions, feel free to post them on the thread or pm me. If you need to get a deeper understandingthan what you have gotten in this forum, talk to an orthodox priest and he might let you stay in the altar during the service to witness it.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Iacobus Posted...
Welcome to TAW. I tried to answer a little while ago, but my computer ate the answer -- kind of the way my dog used to eat my homework.

Thank you for your response, I had a bit of a problem an hour ago on this message board myself. There was about 10 minutes where my brouser failed to find the server.

Iacobus Posted...
If you would like me to dig up the details of the symbols and what not, I'd be happy to.

Yes, I would like to have at least an "Authoritive Source" to review.
There is so much out there on the web that if I tried to "Google" the answers for myself I would most likely find tainted or biased sources, there are alot of well meaning but misguided protestant groups out there. I prefer to get as close to the source as I can. (incidently that is why I have the Early Church Fathers In hardcover).

Also, could you include any historical references to the Prosphora, and how it is connected to the Passover?

Bruncvik posted...
I don't believe Orthodox use Matzo?

I am one that uses Matzo, I am just interested if the Orthodox use anything similar or if they find any problems or issues against my use (and reasoning behind the use) of Matzo.

I am a non-denominational Christian, who is finding that I agree with alot of Orthodox teachings even though I am mostly "Self Taught", and was not brought up along any standard traditional method.

I started as a Historian, and a Strategy and Tactics Wargames Hobbyist, who first found the Bible an excellent source for Ancient Mideast research and the more I studied the more it began to make sense. I have quested for the Truth for over 20 years now. And like the Bereans, I go to the Scriptures with each issue to verify the Truth of a matter.

 

[Oblio]

Welcome to TAW Wisdom'sChild,

This link might have some practical pointers on Prosphora

 

[Oblio]

I am one that uses Matzo, I am just interested if the Orthodox use anything similar or if they find any problems or issues against my use (and reasoning behind the use) of Matzo.

Leavened versus Unleavened Bread from prosphora.org

 

[Iacobus]

Hmmmm. I've been puzzling over the best sources to refer you to. Let me start with this: as to the way in which the bread is blessed and treated before communion, try this link: http://www.sspeterpaul.org/Proskomede.htm

This excerpt of the procedure before the liturgy itself actually starts includes the proskomede, in which the priest blesses the prosphora and cuts it in a prescribed fashion. This particular reference also includes a drawing of the symbols which are found on top of the loaf.

I saw that Oblio had given you a link to prosphora.org, which might start to address your other questions. I'll try to think of other links, but in the meantime, let us know your thoughts as you read these things.

James

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Thank you all for your responses so far.

It seems that I have alot of study ahead of me, thanks to prosphora.org

Oblio, thank you for anticipating my next question about Leavened vs Unleavened bread.

Being that I spend much time with the Early Church Fathers, I may seem a little 5th century about the Eucharist, in that I partake daily as a part of my prayer and worship time. I know that tradition dictates that the Eucharist be blessed by the priest, but in that I have been a "Solitary" monastically speaking, for so long, that I judged it better to attempt communion with God myself than to wait till I come to the place that the Holy Spirit is leading me.
But as the Spirit reveals more to me, I grow and adjust to be close to where God desires me.

 

[Oblio]

What are the symbolic meanings to the use of this form of Host?

The common symbols impressed on the loaf are

IC|XC Jesus Christ
------
NI|KA Conquers


Also, you will find in the Russian tradition (and others too IIRC) that the loafs (there are 5, symbolizing the feading of 5000) will be made of two parts, looking somewhat like a fat mushroom (see photos in Stamp section of prosphora.org). This is of course to symbolize the dual nature of Christ.

[c]

[/c]

 

[twosid]

I am curious as to why leavened wafers are used? During the passover it was always unleavened. Even in my protestant Church we use unleavened "something" don't know exactly what they are but of course there it is only symbolic.

 

[Eusebios]

TwoSid,
See Oblio's post #8 in this thread, the link there has the explanation.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

 

[twosid]

TwoSid,
See Oblio's post #8 in this thread, the link there has the explanation.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.

ahhhh...you caught me I'll check that out....Thanks.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Thank you all again for the information, though much of what I have read concerning the use of Leaven concerns me.
But I will resist debating these points, as this is a non-debate thread.
But since you asked for my thoughts I will give them to you, though they are still just first impressions.

Can someone provide info on the sybolism of cutting the bread into cubes instead of breaking the bread?

It seems to me that the Orthodox Eucharist and what I know of the Lord's Supper are two different rites.

The Orthodox Eucharist seems to celebrate the Christian Life,
The Lord's Supper that I practice is in rememberance of his Passion till he returns.

Does this make any sense?

 

[Oblio]

Can someone provide info on the sybolism of cutting the bread into cubes instead of breaking the bread?

The bread is broken by the priest just prior to placing in into the Chalice.

The Orthodox Eucharist seems to celebrate the Christian Life,
The Lord's Supper that I practice is in rememberance of his Passion till he returns.

From the Divine Liturgy (just before what we call the epiclesis, or that time when the Holy Spirit is called upon the Holy Gifts):


Priest:

(in a low voice)
In the same way also, after supper, he took the cup, saying:



(aloud) Drink from this, all of you; this is my Blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for you and for many for the remission of sins.


People: Amen.


Priest:

(in a low voice)
Remembering, therefore, this saving commandment and all those things that have come to pass for us: the Cross, the tomb, the resurrection on the third day, the ascension into heaven, the sitting at the right hand, and the Second and glorious Coming,



(aloud) Offering thee thine own of thine own, on behalf of all and for all,

 

[Oblio]

Speaking of which, I'm off to Liturgy, I'll check back later

 

[Daedalus]

Don't wait too much though.
20 years is a lot of time.
Are you baptised in any form of christianity?
You should baptise as an orthodox if you please, but it is a step you need to perform, to officially enter the church.

 

[Oblio]

The Orthodox Eucharist seems to celebrate the Christian Life,
The Lord's Supper that I practice is in rememberance of his Passion till he returns.

I'd like to address this again now that I am conscious

In a way, they are both correct. I believe I addressed that latter in my previous post. The former is addressed in the fact that properly speaking, the Christian life revolves around the Eucharist. Liturgically, Sacramentally, Physically. Christ is the center of our lives, and as He is present in the Eucharist, so the Eucharist forms the nucleus of our celebration and existance as Christians.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Don't wait too much though.
20 years is a lot of time.
Are you baptised in any form of christianity?
You should baptise as an orthodox if you please, but it is a step you need to perform, to officially enter the church.

Thank you for your concern, yes I am baptised through the LDS(Mormon) Church, The Southern Baptist, The Prespyterians, the Episcopals, a branch of the Pentacostals and by the Holy Spirit.

Even though I believe in One baptism for the forgiveness of Sins, it seems that the various denominations often do not recognise Baptism from the "Competition", this is one reason that I became non-denominational.

Currently I serve as an Ordained Minister, doing street ministry and revivals, and am examining Orthodox ways as I progress on the path God is leading me.
If I do feel lead to join an Orthodox Church, I know that my "Ordained" status would probably not be recognised, but I would seek to serve in a Lay Ministry at the very least.

Serving the Lord is my life....