• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A question I don't think creationists will answer.

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
Nope, wrong. Try again.

AIDS is an ERV friend. Known to be since 2009, and it got quite interesting since Finlay got pushing in the cancer field as well.
If we are going to discuss this... we are finished and you may call me the ignorant afterwards. Frankly I wouldn't care, but be thankful for the remaining time

You have not heard of Finlay's work, or you would have not been denying the leukemia part as well.
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship

Why is it quite complete with humanoids?
Quite complete with horses?

It isn't about the gaps, it's about making gaps. If you are related to tiktaalik, and there's nothing to back that up. That's the same as holding up your bible.
I ask the Christian with his bible: where is your God?
I ask the scientist with the tiktaalik: how is that fossil related to us?
After all answers gone through? It remains wishful thinking.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
I am in the process of correcting you. You do not ask the right questions.

Here is a start:ERV stands for Endogenous Retro-Virus. Though AIDS is a retrovirus it is not an endogenous retrovirus.

Occasionally when someone gets ill with a virus a virus will invade a germline cell and become part of the genome. It does not reproduce and spread like a regular virus it becomes "trapped" in our DNA. If this occurs it can become part of the genome of a whole species given enough time. It is no longer active as a virus, it is part of our DNA that would be casually labeled "junk".

As I said this is a very rare event. You can read more about it here:


Endogenous retrovirus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what makes the Phoenix ERV special is that we have revived it. Over time ERV's mutate along with the rest of our genome. Since the tend to be "junk" there is no guiding force to those mutations and they lose viability over time even if they are separated out. The Phoenix ERV was a relatively recent one that they revived by taking the average genome of several samples to undo the mutations that had occurred.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single

No, AIDS is caused by a retrovirus. It is not caused by an ERV.

I am not name calling if I tell you that you are ignorant, I am informing you when you are wrong. As you see in my last post you did not know what ERV's are. I told you long ago that you did not know and I did know.

I am more than happy to help you to learn, but if you are ignorant about a subject and you keep getting an idea wrong I WILL point out that your are ignorant and show how you are ignorant.

It is not an insult to be told that you are ignorant about a subject. There are many subjects that I am ignorant about. People can help each other to learn, but if you deny your own ignorance then you can never learn.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single

It only makes sense that the more recent a species is that the more fossils we will have for that species. The longer a strata has existed the higher the odds that all of it will have eroded away. One of the problems with finding Precambrian fossils is that over 600 million years many of the layers have eroded away to nothing around the world. There are still some, but look at a geologic map of the oldest sedimentary rocks and you will see relatively few Precambrian strata.
 
Upvote 0

sfs

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2003
10,800
7,818
65
Massachusetts
✟389,594.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So you call cancer a benficial mutation?
No, I called the mutations I listed beneficial. None of them causes cancer. What the heck are you talking about?

A few points. First, the "Phoenix project" isn't a thing. Second, the Phoenix system isn't a virus; it's a system of cells that produce viruses. Third, the virus involved isn't an ERV. It's an human-engineered viral delivery system, based on a retrovirus. Retroviruses are also not ERVs (although they can, on occasion, turn into them). The Phoenix system has nothing to do with common descent, with the evidence that ERVs provide for common descent, or with beneficial mutations, and why you brought it up continues to be a mystery.

Sure we do (more or less -- rodents didn't become apes): in the fossil record, and in the record preserved in the genomes of modern species.
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
You are right, but AIDS is exogenous, E as well, so ....
Nah, not gonna taunt ya that way, AIDS isn't the same I was wrong there.

It is rare, but it does not show anyting peculiar.
The phoenix ERv's are responsible for bad mutations, agreed on that one?
When it starts undoing mutations, it's like building up a resistance. Such as farmers did with chicken pox.
Imagen no vaccin came and people died, just couple of lucky ones made it and nobody knew why.
How would the markers look like from survivers and those who died through time?
And what conclussions will they make out of it? Asking questions again or am I trying to show you something?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
No, I called the mutations I listed beneficial. None of them causes cancer. What the heck are you talking about?

We are talking about mutations caused by ERV's
Were you?

So what does this then show for evolution? Isn't this more something for the medical field?

Sure we do (more or less -- rodents didn't become apes): in the fossil record, and in the record preserved in the genomes of modern species.

Why does man evolve from rodent in less then 165 million year? While it takes 50 million years for a foot to become hooves? Time goes here and there, but isn't synchrone with the fossil record.
If the dino's got extinct somewhere 65 million years ago and Earth was so violent, how come we evolved in such a short time to such a great diversity?
Time is going off the charts, stands still, ... It goes everywhere the assumptions desire it to go.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Since almost all viruses are "exogenous" no one makes a big deal about them. The "E" in ERV or even HERV stands for endogenous, and that is a very unique process.

Otherwise congratulations on admitting your error. It shows that you can and want to learn. That is a rarity here.
 
Upvote 0

sfs

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2003
10,800
7,818
65
Massachusetts
✟389,594.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I've never heard of Finlay. Which Finlay do you mean? Graeme Finlay? If so, he seems to be a competent cancer biologist who's also written about the genetic evidence for common descent. If you've read his book, I think you've misunderstood it.
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single

It seems that you have the mistaken idea that evolution has a goal.

Actually the hoof took the whole history of life to evolve. If you want to ask why it took a certain structure to go from A to B you need to look at the environment the creature is living in. Evolution is usually caused by a changing environment. In unchanging environments there is very little evolution.
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
I note that I have made a mistake. I conflated the "Phoenix virus" with an actual ERV that was rejuvenated.

That is how you handle it when you make an error. Admit it and move on. If you would like I could link an article about the revived ERV.

Yeah I'd like that

Thanks If I were not too impulsive I might've learned more in the past.
I am very attracted to evolution, but take the wings of a bug.
Do you really believe it evolved from gills?
Strong arguments indicate that bugs had wings 500 mya... I find that quite profound and paradox...
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
I've never heard of Finlay. Which Finlay do you mean? Graeme Finlay? If so, he seems to be a competent cancer biologist who's also written about the genetic evidence for common descent. If you've read his book, I think you've misunderstood it.

Yeah with apes. Not fish!
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single


I will find that article for you.

And no, bugs are not the descendants of fish. Fish are vertebrates bugs aren't. The split occurred before fish evolved.
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship

Scientists claiming they have the answers of our origins, and pushing anything they find that way is to me the wrong goal.
They find a 165 million year old rodent fossil "hey it's your ancestor"
They find a tiktaalik fossil of 380 million years old "hey it's your ancestor"

I don't see anything happening spontaneous.
Evolution is always triggered by something, weather, food, environment, ...

To say a rodent evolves into a human in less then 200 years old, and selling that as THE theory is wrong imho.
 
Upvote 0

Bolleke

Regular Member
Jun 18, 2014
132
1
✟22,752.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
In Relationship
I will find that article for you.

And no, bugs are not the descendants of fish. Fish are vertebrates bugs aren't. The split occurred before fish evolved.

Sorry impulsive again.
bugs might've lived in water first as well, and the gills evolved into wings...
Or another hypothesis says it had cooling functions which evolved into wings.
By this I am not saying insects evolved from fish, but insects also live in water.

I wanted to jump to bugs, because the evolution of insect wings is quite bizar. Look at a dragonfly millions of years ago, same wings as today (though not that big anymore lol).

The bugs had wings long before tiktaalik grasped for air
Isn't that bizar?
 
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Uhoh. Now I have to go back and see what sfs said about the Phoenix virus. That was the name that the French team gave the ERV they revived. I don't see anything about it causing cancer:

Reflections from the Other Side: Endogenous Retroviruses

In general when popular magazines talk about cancer cures or causes I always have my doubts. They often get that fact wrong. Perhaps because scientists when pressed too far other throw out that as a possible benefit. People do not care to learn of the actual use of research. So I would still ignore the "cancer" claims of the sources that you listed for the Phoenix virus.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

Hmmmph. You might as well complain about all the pictures of Jesus in the children's departments of the churches because we can't be certain what Jesus' face looked like.

The pictures do help give the idea that Jesus was a real person, and the animations give the idea that the fossils were once real living things.
 
Upvote 0