A question from a creation website

[sfs]

And none of that indicates Paul made physical contact with Jesus. "By revelation"?

Paul didn't make physical contact with Jesus. He's clear on that.

 

[AV1611VET]

And none of that indicates Paul made physical contact with Jesus.

I take it you've never taken any online courses?

 

[sfs]

You love your bible verses. Quote one thing from Paul that demonstrates that he knows anything other than a Crucifixion and resurrection. Here is one that shows he doesn't believe Jesus even walked on the earth:

Hebrews 8:4 "If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law."

He doesn't know. Wasn't all this supposed to be a recent event? How come nobody told him?

A) Hebrews wasn't written by Paul.
B) The author of Hebrews is talking about the situation when he's writing, when Jesus is clearly not on Earth; he's saying that, having finished his work on earth, he is seated at the right hand of God and serves as a supernatural high priest.
C) Paul does refer to a few of Jesus' teachings. He also knows (or believes) that Jesus was a descendent of David and that he had brothers, whom Paul met. And that he was crucified, after first having a meal with his followers.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

A) Hebrews wasn't written by Paul.
B) The author of Hebrews is talking about the situation when he's writing, when Jesus is clearly not on Earth; he's saying that, having finished his work on earth, he is seated at the right hand of God and serves as a supernatural high priest.
C) Paul does refer to a few of Jesus' teachings. He also knows (or believes) that Jesus was a descendent of David and that he had brothers, whom Paul met. And that he was crucified, after first having a meal with his followers.

A. Different denominations of Christianity would disagree with you. Unknown author or Paul? I find it troubling there is no agreement on this.

B. Why is the author not told of these stories? Surely Jesus was a recent event. I again, find it troubling that nobody tells Paul or this unknown author of these events. There are no contemporary, eye witness accounts outside of the bible. Surely this would have been important for historians, yes?

C. The genealogy of Jesus is contradicted in the gospels. So much so that it is like Matthew and Luke are describing two different people. Feel free to reconcile this but we won't agree.

 

[AV1611VET]

Here is one that shows he doesn't believe Jesus even walked on the earth:

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Strange words for someone who doesn't believe Jesus even walked on the earth; wouldn't you say?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Would you then allow yourself to be martyred for what you wrote?

If so, then who's the one taking the snake oil?

Well, its not normal to determine truth by who is willing to die for it . . . after all, we don't think those suicide bombers must have truth to be willing to die like that . . .

 

[Herman Hedning]

And we're into apologetics once again. Thread closing in 3 - 2 - 1.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, its not normal to determine truth by who is willing to die for it . . . after all, we don't think those suicide bombers must have truth to be willing to die like that . . .

Do you think Mark Twain would willingly die refusing to admit that Huckleberry Finn was a fictional character?

 

[Goonie]

 

[Jimmy D]

Did we ever find out what Creationist website asked the question?

 

[DerelictJunction]

Did we ever find out what Creationist website asked the question?

A woefully uninformed one. I know that doesn't narrow it down much.

 

[sfs]

A. Different denominations of Christianity would disagree with you. Unknown author or Paul? I find it troubling there is no agreement on this.

Who cares what denominations say? Scholars are just about unanimous on the subject. (In reality, I think you would be hard pressed to find an actual denomination that teaches Pauline authorship of Hebrews.)

B. Why is the author not told of these stories? Surely Jesus was a recent event. I again, find it troubling that nobody tells Paul or this unknown author of these events. There are no contemporary, eye witness accounts outside of the bible. Surely this would have been important for historians, yes?

What stories? How can we possibly know what stories Paul knew about Jesus? I think it's fair to say that Paul doesn't seem very interested in Jesus' historical activities, apart from those surrounding his death, but he does treat his teachings as authoritative. I really don't know what point you're trying to make here.

C. The genealogy of Jesus is contradicted in the gospels. So much so that it is like Matthew and Luke are describing two different people. Feel free to reconcile this but we won't agree.

No, it's like they invented genealogies for the same person, or had heard genealogies constructed by different sources. The two writers are obviously talking about the same person throughout their gospels, and even share much of the same material. Where they diverge most widely is in their birth narratives -- which is of course the part of Jesus' life about which there would be the least information. What does this have to do with what Paul knew about Jesus, anyway?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're lost in the woods.
You find a map that leads you out.
The cartographer is not revealed, so
You tear up the map,
and remain lost.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Do you think Mark Twain would willingly die refusing to admit that Huckleberry Finn was a fictional character?

Mark Twain told the truth over and over again, we could count on him telling the truth about Huckleberry Finn, of course.
I'm not quite sure how you think this post makes any kind of point.

 

[AV1611VET]

Mark Twain told the truth over and over again, we could count on him telling the truth about Huckleberry Finn, of course.

I take it your answer is: NO?

 

[crjmurray]

Did we ever find out what Creationist website asked the question?

Creation Ministries

http://creation.mobi/foxes-crying-foul-in-the-henhouse

 

[DerelictJunction]

You're lost in the woods.
You find a map that leads you out.
The cartographer is not revealed, so
You tear up the map,
and remain lost.

This analogy has no value in the context of this thread nor as a description of what atheists are doing.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This analogy has no value in the context of this thread nor as a description of what atheists are doing.

Sorry, wrong thread.

 

[Astrophile]

Can a chimp and human reproduce? NO.

Has anybody actually tried this?

 

[Astrophile]

People have already mention the ERVs that show that we and the other apes have a common ancestor.

I'll tackle the 'ages of millions of years'. When we look at two different ratios of two different isotopes in different meteorites with different compositions found in different places, we find that the data falls on a line. As does a point derived from particular earth rocks with the right chemistry.

Either it is a ridiculous coincidence that all of these points fall on a line, or this is evidence that radiometric dating methods are valid, and they indicate that the age of the earth (and solar system) is roughly 4.55 billion years.

I would add a few other bits of evidence to this:
Varved sediments (tens of millions of years).
Cooling rates of iron meteorites, determined from their Widmanstätten structure (about 100 million years).
Dynamical ages of asteroid families (hundreds of millions of years).
The recession rate of the Moon (more than a billion years).
H-R diagrams of star clusters (10-12 billion years for globular clusters).