A Question for Trinitarians

Roymond · Nov 6, 2022

atpollard said:
Neither in this case … it is an idiom (figure of speech).

Like “Stop in the name of the Law!”

“In the name of” means “by the authority of”.

You can't have "by the authority of" and follow it with a figure of speech, you follow it with the name and/or title of the authority you're invoking -- so those are both titles and names.

atpollard · Nov 7, 2022

Roymond said:
You can't have "by the authority of" and follow it with a figure of speech, you follow it with the name and/or title of the authority you're invoking -- so those are both titles and names.

He was specifically asking about its application in Matthew 28:19.

Are you baptizing in the TITLE of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the PROPER NAMES of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the AUTHORITY of the members of the Godhead?

... It is part of the idiom.
[FYI: If you baptize in the TITLE or PROPER NAME, then literally anyone (saved or unsaved) can do it as long as they know the name. If you baptize in the AUTHORITY, then you must possess that authority or the 'proper authorization' to use that authority. So the distinction matters.]

ViaCrucis · Nov 7, 2022

atpollard said:
He was specifically asking about its application in Matthew 28:19.

Are you baptizing in the TITLE of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the PROPER NAMES of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the AUTHORITY of the members of the Godhead?

... It is part of the idiom.
[FYI: If you baptize in the TITLE or PROPER NAME, then literally anyone (saved or unsaved) can do it as long as they know the name. If you baptize in the AUTHORITY, then you must possess that authority or the 'proper authorization' to use that authority. So the distinction matters.]

The historic position of the Church is that God Himself is the One who baptizes, the person who administers the baptism is merely acting as the servant. Thus God Himself baptizes, and thus it is in His name and authority (the name and authority of the Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Just as in the Acts where we read "in the name of Jesus" it is because it is Christ's baptism (rather than, for example, John's), which He instituted, and thus Christ is at work and present in and through the Sacrament.

Seeing as baptism is not a human work of obedience for God's sake, but God's gracious work for our sake. Christ is the true Minister of baptism, the individual person who administers it is merely acting in His stead and authority, and God the Holy Trinity is He who acts, works, and accomplishes the work for us. As the works of God are filled with His grace; whereas the works of mere sinners can avail us nothing ("For by grace you have been saved, by grace, through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, so that no one may boast" Ephesians 2:8-9).

-CryptoLutheran

Roymond · Nov 7, 2022

atpollard said:
He was specifically asking about its application in Matthew 28:19.

Are you baptizing in the TITLE of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the PROPER NAMES of the members of the Godhead?
Are you baptizing in the AUTHORITY of the members of the Godhead?

... It is part of the idiom.
[FYI: If you baptize in the TITLE or PROPER NAME, then literally anyone (saved or unsaved) can do it as long as they know the name. If you baptize in the AUTHORITY, then you must possess that authority or the 'proper authorization' to use that authority. So the distinction matters.]

But baptizing "in the authority of" requires stating the source of that authority, so my point stands: they're both names and titles.

John Caldwell · Nov 7, 2022

Little-Flock said:
What is the name of the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Ghost"?

"I Am"

Semper-Fi · Nov 16, 2022

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

God and The Word that was before time:
became The Father and Son, a Family unit.

setst777 · Nov 23, 2022

Little-Flock said:
What is the name of the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Ghost"?

"Name" frequently carries the meaning of authority. The authority by which we are baptized is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, we are actually baptized into the name of Lord Jesus, for there is no one else, and no other name, under heaven by which we may be saved (Acts 4:12). From the Father is Salvation. Through the Son is salvation. By the Holy Spirit indwelling us is salvation.

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB) 6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

Little-Flock said:
What is the name of the "Father," "Son" and "Holy Ghost"?

The matter is clear. Since all three are distinct persons, each one of them, except maybe Holy Spirit, got his own name:

God the Father from the very beginning is called "Yahweh" (Jews and, later, so called christians lost the exact pronunciation of their God's name)
Son's precious name is "Jesus"
The Holy Spirit is simply called "The Holy Spirit"

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

J_B_ said:
It feels like you're trying to set a trap. You already have an answer in mind and I'm supposed to guess it. If I don't, I get a "gotcha" response.

But ... um ... the names are Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Or are you wanting me to collectively call them the Trinity? Or Elohim? Or list out the names in Isaiah 9 ... or? I can think of many different ways to answer your question because I don't know they key issue that prompted you to ask it.

Little-Flock said:
Thank you everyone for your response.

Jesus said: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: in Matthew 28:19.

I'm just wondering, if Father, Son and Holy Ghost are titles or actual names?

Throughtout the New Testament starting from the book of Acts, all the baptisms seems to be done in the name of Jesus' Christ. I don't see any examples of the disciples baptising people repeating the words of what Jesus commanded.

Just from searching the scriptures and doing my due diligence, would the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost be Jesus Christ?

Given that we already know the Son of God's name is Jesus Christ. Would the name of the Father also be Jesus Christ?

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

If this is so, then that would make the name of the Holy Spirit to also be Jesus Christ?

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

What do you guys think? Please note that I do not say that I don't believe in the Trinity and I don't intend to cause any strifes or contentions but simply trying to search out the scriptures if these things are so, just like the people at Berea.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Exodus 3:14
14 And God said to Moses, “I am that I am.” And he said, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘I am sent me to you.’”
15 And God said again to Moses, “So you must say to the Israelites, ‘Yahweh, the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my remembrance from generation to generation.’

so God's name, most probably, is "Yahweh" (or Yehowah).

Matthew 1:21
20 But as he was considering these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for what has been conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will give birth to a son, and you will call his name ‘Jesus,’ because he will save his people from their sins.”

so Jesus' name is, obviously, "Jesus". And the Holy Spirit is called simply "The Holy Spirit".

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

disciple Clint said:
God clearly said His name is I AM.

How much time, do you believe, he is called "I AM" in the Bible?

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

@Clare73 strange thing: I see your reply like this
need time to figure out how to reply))

Could you, please, provide some quotes with such name?

"Yahweh" by the way is mentioned in 5784 verses. Proof link.
"Jesus" in 942 verses. Proof link

Clare73 · Dec 4, 2022

Nux said:
@Clare73 strange thing: I see your reply like this View attachment 324337
need time to figure out how to reply))

No, for God has more than one name.

Nux said:
Could you, please, provide some quotes with such name?

"Yahweh" by the way is mentioned in 5784 verses. Proof link.
"Jesus" in 942 verses. Proof link

Are you asking me to demonstrate that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God?

What are you asking?

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

Clare73 said:
Are you asking me to demonstrate that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God?

What are you asking?

I got no doubts that Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine so don't bother. Just provide some quotes with the name "Father, Son, Holy Spirit", according to you. Just use the same site as I used.

Clare73 · Dec 4, 2022

Nux said:
I got no doubts that Yahweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine so don't bother. Just provide some quotes with the name "Father, Son, Holy Spirit", according to you. Just use the same site as I used.

Jesus is pretty clear what the "name" of God is in Mt 28:19.

Is that not sufficient for you?

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

Clare73 said:
Jesus is pretty clear what the "name" of God is in Mt 28:19.

Is that not sufficient for you?

Of course no. Because God, in 5784 verses of OT, is clearly called "Yahweh". And Jesus' name is "Jesus". Pay attention, I provide quotes, not my interpretation.

Clare73 · Dec 4, 2022

Nux said:
Of course no. Because God, in 5784 verses of OT, is clearly called "Yahweh". And Jesus' name is "Jesus". Pay attention, I provide quotes, not my interpretation.

Well, if Jesus' own words" "in the name of" (Mt 28:19) are not clear enough for you, I can't top that.

Jesus is enough authority for me.

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

Clare73 said:
Well, if Jesus' own words" "in the name of" (Mt 28:19) is not clear enough for you, I can't top that.

Jesus is enough authority for me.

But Jesus lots of times in prayer and talking to people clearly called God "Father" and never by the name you mentioned. The quotation you used can be simply deconstructed like "the name of the Father, the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit". This is why I asked you to provide some other occurrences of the name you mentioned. It is good to provide several quotes and not just one interpretation to assure your point of view is biblical, isn't it.

Clare73 · Dec 4, 2022

Nux said:
But Jesus lots of times in prayer and talking to people clearly called God "Father" and never by the name you mentioned. The quotation you used can be simply deconstructed like "the name of the Father, the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit". This is why I asked you to provide some other occurrences of the name you mentioned. It is good to provide several quotes and not just one interpretation to assure your point of view is biblical, isn't it.

The whole NT can be "deconstructed" to deny what it states. . .and for a reason. . .to blind and shut out those who will not believe what it imports.

Nux · Dec 4, 2022

Clare73 said:
The whole NT can be "deconstructed" to deny what it states. . .and for a reason. . .to blind and shut out those who will not believe what it imports.

What exactly I've denied? Your interpretation? I do believe what God and Jesus says, can support it with hundreds of quotes. Please bear this Terms and Rules in mind while answering.

ViaCrucis · Dec 4, 2022

Nux said:
The matter is clear. Since all three are distinct persons, each one of them, except maybe Holy Spirit, got his own name:

God the Father from the very beginning is called "Yahweh" (Jews and, later, so called christians lost the exact pronunciation of their God's name)

Son's precious name is "Jesus"

The Holy Spirit is simply called "The Holy Spirit"

YHWH is the Name of all Three Persons, not the Father only. Many times the New Testament references and alludes to the Old Testament where the Tetragrammaton is used and the text is being applied to Christ. The most notable example I can think of is the Christological hymn in Philippians 2, that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. The hymn alludes back to Isaiah, where YHWH says that every knee will bow and every tongue swear by His Name (Isaiah 45:22-24).

So the Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH.
But only the Son, becoming flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary, was given the name Jesus.

Also, not "so-called Christians". The Tetragrammaton wasn't pronounced by ordinary Jews in the first century, and this seems to have been a tradition for several centuries as indicated by the regular use of Adonai and its Greek translation Kyrios both in the Septuagint and in the New Testament. The Samaritans continue a tradition of a pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, but neither Jews and real actual Christians made normative use of the Tetragrammaton, but were perfectly comfortable using "Lord". This has never been a problem in either Christianity or Judaism.

So the Name Jesus refers to in the Great Commission is simply what He says, "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". Jesus isn't referring to names plural, or to some other name than the one He Himself uses; which is why the Church has always invoked the Three-fold Name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the ordinary baptismal rite--as testified as early as the first century Church Manual known as the Didache. Nobody was ever baptized "in the name of YHWH", for example.

-CryptoLutheran

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