A question for those who subscribe to Calvanistic predestination

[St Redemption]

Should those who have been predestined into Hell love God?

 

[VanzTyn]

Bible seems clear that a person lands them self in hell based on their own unbelief and sin. The idea of God's sovereignty and Man's responsibility are parallel truths. Both are biblical and true.

 

[Meowzltov]

Should those who have been predestined into Hell love God?

Such a "God" seems more like a devil.

 

[Kate94]

The basic concept is centered around the idea that you can't love God of your own volition, because of the sinful nature of human beings.

 

[Meowzltov]

The basic concept is centered around the idea that you can't love God of your own volition, because of the sinful nature of human beings.

Our sinful nature is only part of us. We are also made in the image of God. That's our good side. The part of us that is in the image of God can love God , even though we are drawn towards sin.

 

[Hazrus]

Such a "God" seems more like a devil.

Have a good read of Romans 9.

 

[brocke]

Well I'm not a holder of predestination or determinism. I find the concept deplorable, but I am a Methodist and John Wesley thought the same way.

As I understand Calvin if you are predestined to hell you will not have the capacity to love God in the first place. So the question in the theology of predestination is mute.

 

[ewq1938]

Should those who have been predestined into Hell love God?

No one is predestined for "hell".

 

[Hazrus]

No one is predestined for "hell".

Actually, as unpalatable as it sounds, some people are predestined for eternal punishment. Here's why:
Romans 9 - God chose some to save, and since he is the creator of all things, whatever he does is right.
Ephesians 1 - God chose to save some people before creation of the world. ie. it is not based on what you do
Acts 13:48 - Specifically shows that people are "appointed" for eternal life.
Revelation 21 - If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life (which was written before the creation of the world - Rev 17), you will be saved. If not, you face eternal punishment.

 

[ewq1938]

Actually, as unpalatable as it sounds, some people are predestined for eternal punishment. Here's why:
Romans 9 - God chose some to save, and since he is the creator of all things, whatever he does is right.
Ephesians 1 - God chose to save some people before creation of the world. ie. it is not based on what you do
Acts 13:48 - Specifically shows that people are "appointed" for eternal life.
Revelation 21 - If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life (which was written before the creation of the world - Rev 17), you will be saved. If not, you face eternal punishment.

One is saved because they chose Christ. One is not saved because of denying Christ. No one is predestined to the second death or eternal life.

 

[Hazrus]

Did they choose Christ, or did Christ choose them? Romans 3:10-12 has the answer I think.

 

[Meowzltov]

BOTH

 

[Hazrus]

BOTH

I'm not sure I agree... how do you reconcile the two?

 

[Wgw]

I totally agree... so how do you reconcile this?

The Orthodox doctrine of divine synergy, which we see clearly expressed in St. John Cassian (St. Augustine was in error on this point; and Calvinism represents an exagerration of the Augustinian view). Calvinism is monergism, a doctrine condemned by the Sixth Ecumenical Council along with monothelitism. Calvinism is conceptually related to Nestorianism, and I believe most Calvinists are (unwittingly) crypto-Nestorian or semi-Nestorian.

 

[Hazrus]

WGW, can you elaborate? I have never heard those terms before.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm not sure I agree... how do you reconcile the two?

I think it's easy. How can one be a disciple of another unless the one accepts the person as their disciple? As well, how can one be a disciple without accepting the teacher to follow? It must be both because it cannot work being one sided.

 

[Meowzltov]

I'm not sure I agree... how do you reconcile the two?

It's a synergistic relationship, like Wgw was saying.

 

[Job8]

No one is predestined for "hell".

Exactly. Even the Devil and his angels brought Hell upon themselves. And because of Hell, God sent His Son into the world "so that THE WORLD might be saved" (John 3:17).

 

[brocke]

Why are you arguing for or against predestination in this thread? The OP was a specific question about Calvin's Predestination theology, not for a debate of Predestination vs. Arminain. I would think you should post a thread to debate the two then get off topic in here.