A question for the faithful.

[madaz]

I agree with Theofane and others who are unable to imagine any scenario matching what you're asking about; that's why we're asking you to explain what such proof might consist of.

Of course your unable to "imagine any scenario" to the contrary of your faith. The very nature of demonstrating ones faith is to deny evidence to the contrary so there is no scenario that would be satisfactory.

eg. If I had faith that banana's are purple no one could convince me of the fact they are yellow. If I conceded they are yellow then I'm obviously not faithful. Do you see the problem?

Since you're the one asking us to contemplate this scenario, it's up to you to demonstrate what exactly the scenario is.

If I could, I would, and if the faithful could, they wouldn't dare.

The concept of absolute proof exists in mathematics and formal logic, but only there.

You are precisely correct, that is why it is wrong to assert that deities absolutely exist, you can only rightfully assert that deities may possibly exist.

 

[drjean]

My religion? Sure, take it.

My faith in God, nope no way. I have proof of my own it's real and Truth.

 

[Skavau]

If you were given absolute proof that your religion is false, would you abandon your religion?

I think you should rephrase your question (since there seems to be problems with the word 'proof' here) to ask:

If you were given a convincing argument based on empiricism and/or logical reasoning that your religion was false, would you abandon your religion?

 

[madaz]

What is the (simple) logical answer to your question?

Yes

Do you think a faithful person is less logical than you are?

Not exactly, I think a faithful person is less logical than a non faithful person.

 

[madaz]

Originally Posted by madaz
Suggest a hypothetical example of absolute proof your religion is false, then answer the question based on that scenario.

we're asking you to explain what such proof might consist of. Since you're the one asking us to contemplate this scenario, it's up to you to demonstrate what exactly the scenario is.

For me personally as a humanist,

If absolute proof (whatever that might be) was presented to me that deities do indeed exist I would abandon my Atheist position, but this analogy would be misleading because Atheism is not a religion and Atheism does not require faith. Therefore this is NOT a "scenario" I can rightly present to you but I hope it helps communicate my reasoning in such an event.

What I'm trying to understand is why someone would refuse to accept facts because their belief is paramount.

I'll reiterate that the absolute proof part of the question posed in the title of this thread is hypothetical so therefore the whatever that might be part is irrelevant.

 

[madaz]

Another bad question. (nearly not worthy to answer)
Anyone can reason.

If one believes without evidence, then one cannot reason.

 

[madaz]

I think you should rephrase your question (since there seems to be problems with the word 'proof' here) to ask:

If you were given a convincing argument based on empiricism and/or logical reasoning that your religion was false, would you abandon your religion?

I agree, however I doubt it would change anything. I should have used the word hypothetical in reference to the absolute proof.

 

[madaz]

See below

 

[madaz]

This is a very good question madaz, and I thank you for asking it here.

With regards to your question, after giving thought to it, I would have to say that I would not abandon Christianity if I were given absolute proof that it was not a plausible worldview.

I shall enumerate my reasons below.

1. Within the framework of the Judeo-Christian worldview, I have found what I failed to find in the various worldviews that I have studied and researched and adhered to in my search for meaning, and that is: meaning.I have found that the principles taught by Christ to be sublime, and all-encompassing, and true to the way I perceive life.

2. There is no law, no morality, no worldview that teaches what Christianity teaches with regards to loving my fellow man. This teaching alone makes Christianity stand so tall above any other worldview. So much so that if indeed it were absolutely proven to be invalid, I would still have what it has taught me in principle and experience which validates my adherence to it.

To put it plainly, I have searched high and low and I know of no other worldview under heaven which could make a claim to my allegiance. There is no higher life, no more noble and sublime ethic than that of Jesus. I therefore, have no reason to alter my adherence to it even though if "hypothetically speaking " it could be proven to be false!

Nice post, thank you for answering my question and providing your reasons why.

 

[madaz]

My religion? Sure, take it.

My faith in God, nope no way. I have proof of my own it's real and Truth.

I'll interpret that as a Yes you will abandon your religion, and NO you will not abandon your faith in god.

"A penny both ways" nice

Thanks for your response.

 

[dogs4thewin]

not likely because one I grew up in it and two I have seen experienced too much I think to with one argument decide otherwise.

 

[AlexBP]

Edit-Since there seems to be confusion over the above question I have rephrased it below.

If you were given a convincing argument based on empiricism and/or logical reasoning that your religion was false, would you abandon your religion?

Yes, I would. However, I've never been given any convincing argument that my religion was false. Most of the arguments that atheists toss at me are so absurd and illogical that they tend to strengthen my conviction that Christianity is true.

 

[dlamberth]

I follow the Religion of the Heart. It's a religion of Love. The only way it could be proved false would be if Love were proved false. I just don't see that happening.

.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes

Not exactly, I think a faithful person is less logical than a non faithful person.

Does that mean something logical to you will become illogical to a faithful?

If you think so, then you are not logical enough.

 

[juvenissun]

If one believes without evidence, then one cannot reason.

Nobody can do that. Everyone believes with some evidences.

 

[madaz]

Yes, I would.

Thank you for actually answering the question. You are the first YES. That must have taken some fortitude in this environment.

However, I've never been given any convincing argument that my religion was false.

What about the fact that christianity adopted most of its rituals from the mithra religion?

Most of the arguments that atheists toss at me are so absurd and illogical that they tend to strengthen my conviction that Christianity is true.

Sounds interesting, will you please post a quoted example?

 

[madaz]

Nobody can do that. Everyone believes with some evidences.

Wrong, most religious people believe their doctrines without any evidence, that is the essence of faith.

 

[madaz]

I follow the Religion of the Heart. It's a religion of Love. The only way it could be proved false would be if Love were proved false. I just don't see that happening.

.

The question wasnt about asking if your religion could be proved wrong, it was a hypothetical question asking what you would do if your religion was proved wrong.

What is your religion?

 

[madaz]

Does that mean something logical to you will become illogical to a faithful?

Absolutely not.

If you think so, then you are not logical enough.

Absolutely.

 

[juvenissun]

Wrong, most religious people believe their doctrines without any evidence, that is the essence of faith.

No. The essence of faith is evidence.

Human are not stupid. You are not wiser than others