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A question for JWs about the use of "Jehovah" in Colossians

ChetSinger

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Hello, I have a question for Jehovah's Witnesses concerning the NWT's use of "Jehovah" in the book of Colossians.

I've been told that we possess no NT manuscripts that contain Jehovah, YHWH, or any variant thereof in Colossians (or indeed in any NT book). Assuming this is true, my question is this: what criteria have the NWT translators used to insert it into Colossians (where it appears multiple times)?

Specifically,
  1. Why is "Jehovah" in the particular places that it is?
  2. Why is it there at all?
 

tezboski99

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Hello, I have a question for Jehovah's Witnesses concerning the NWT's use of "Jehovah" in the book of Colossians.

I've been told that we possess no NT manuscripts that contain Jehovah, YHWH, or any variant thereof in Colossians (or indeed in any NT book). Assuming this is true, my question is this: what criteria have the NWT translators used to insert it into Colossians (where it appears multiple times)?


Specifically,
  1. Why is "Jehovah" in the particular places that it is?
  2. Why is it there at all?


Never automatically assume anything is true my friend. The NT writers quoted regularly from the OT many times. The common practice is to remove the name Jehovah/YHWH and replace it with LORD in all capitals. Note the following quote from the Divine Name KJV below.

Colossians 3:13 DNKJB
"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as the LORD( Jehovah ) forgave you, so also do ye.

In places where the name appeared in the OT, when the NT writers quoted that verse the NWT translators restored the Divine Name. The following paragraphs are quoted from the Appendix inside the NWT found on the JW.org official website.

"They (NWT translators) have restored the divine name not only when coming upon quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures but also in other places where the texts called for such restoration.

To know where the divine name was replaced by the Greek words Κύριος and Θεός, we have determined where the inspired Christian writers have quoted verses, passages and expressions from the Hebrew Scriptures and then we have referred back to the Hebrew text to ascertain whether the divine name appears there. In this way we determined the identity to give Ky′ri·os and The·os′ and the personality with which to clothe them.

To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have been most cautious about rendering the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures as a background. We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our translation, there is only one instance where we have no agreement from the Hebrew versions. But in this one instance, namely, 1Co 7:17, the context and related texts strongly support rendering the divine name."
 
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ChetSinger

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Never automatically assume anything is true my friend. The NT writers quoted regularly from the OT many times. The common practice is to remove the name Jehovah/YHWH and replace it with LORD in all capitals. Note the following quote from the Divine Name KJV below.

Colossians 3:13 DNKJB
"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as the LORD( Jehovah ) forgave you, so also do ye.

In places where the name appeared in the OT, when the NT writers quoted that verse the NWT translators restored the Divine Name. The following paragraphs are quoted from the Appendix inside the NWT found on the JW.org official website.

"They (NWT translators) have restored the divine name not only when coming upon quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures but also in other places where the texts called for such restoration.

To know where the divine name was replaced by the Greek words Κύριος and Θεός, we have determined where the inspired Christian writers have quoted verses, passages and expressions from the Hebrew Scriptures and then we have referred back to the Hebrew text to ascertain whether the divine name appears there. In this way we determined the identity to give Ky′ri·os and The·os′ and the personality with which to clothe them.

To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have been most cautious about rendering the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures as a background. We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our translation, there is only one instance where we have no agreement from the Hebrew versions. But in this one instance, namely, 1Co 7:17, the context and related texts strongly support rendering the divine name."
Why not just let the Greek text stand as it is? What's wrong with that?
 
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tezboski99

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The practice of removing the Divine Name comes from human superstition. Whether or not we wish to call GOD Jehovah or Yahweh or even just YHWH the point is that GOD gave us His name and wants us to use it.

Furthermore replacing GOD's name with the title LORD has confused the LORD Jehovah with the Lord Jesus. Note the difference in LORD and Lord as is Psalm 110:1.

NIV-
The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Amplified bible-
THE LORD (God) says to my Lord (the Messiah), Sit at My right hand, until I make Your adversaries Your footstool.

ASV
Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

This is the verse quoted by Peter at acts 2:34. Note that this is the exact SAME QUOTE from the ASV that uses Jehovah as Psalm 110,

ASV
"For David ascended not into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,"

Even the ASV that uses the name Jehovah in the OT replaced it with Lord in the NT. The bible writers and early Christians knew who their GOD was. No one has the right to remove His Name from His book do they?
 
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tezboski99

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Let me put it this way. How important is a person's name when writing a check? If you were to receive a check for $10,000 and your name wasn't on it would the bank cash it for you? What if the same check wasn't signed by the writer?

A name is very important on any legal document, birth certificate, etc. Even the writers of novels and articles want proper credit and put their names on them. Artists sign their works....why take GOD's name off of His masterpiece?
 
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ChetSinger

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The practice of removing the Divine Name comes from human superstition. Whether or not we wish to call GOD Jehovah or Yahweh or even just YHWH the point is that GOD gave us His name and wants us to use it...
What words do you think Paul actually wrote when he wrote Colossians? Do you think he wrote the Greek we have now, or something different?
 
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tezboski99

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I myself amy not a language scholar or anything so I had to follow the bible's advice.

Proverbs 3:5-6 NLT
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart;
do not depend on your own understanding.
6 Seek his will in all you do,
and he will show you
which path to take."

I wasn't born a JW and I don't know Greek or Hebrew. Following this advice I prayed and always asked the one question that's most important.

"Can you show me where it says that in the bible?"

It doesn't matter who may have changed what when translating the bible into english. For a certainty I know that GOD will not allow anything humans do to prevent a person that truly wants to know Him from finding Him.

Isaiah 55:10-11 NLT
“The rain and snow come down from the heavens
and stay on the ground to water the earth.
They cause the grain to grow,
producing seed for the farmer
and bread for the hungry.
11 It is the same with my word.
I send it out, and it always produces fruit.
It will accomplish all I want it to,
and it will prosper everywhere I send it.
 
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peebly63

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This is interesting...

1/ In one of the most spectacular admissions in religious history, the JW's actually admit that Jehovah is wrong: "Yahweh . .. is admittedly superior to Jehovah. 'The wrong spelling Jehovah OCCURS since about 1100' and then it offers its arguments in favor of Yahweh as the correct and original pronunciation." Let Your Name Be Sanctified, Jehovah's Witnesses, p 16-20)
Even worse, they admit that the only reason they keep using it is to please men, not God: "While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yahweh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it Since the 14th century. New World Translation, Jehovah's Witnesses, foreword p 25)
 
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ChetSinger

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I wasn't born a JW and I don't know Greek or Hebrew.
That's OK. I wasn't always a Christian. Neither am I a Greek or Hebrew scholar.

It's just that every single Greek NT manuscript we have, and we have more than 5,000 of them, are bereft of "Jehovah", "YHWH", or any variant of them.

In Colossians, in particular, Jesus Christ is identified as the "Lord" in verses 1:3 and 2:6, even in the NWT.

From there, the NWT diverges from the Greek, selectively changing some occurrences of "Lord" to "Jehovah", while leaving others unchanged. This selective translation has the effect of changing the letter from Christian theology to Watchtower theology. I encourage you to read Colossians using an English/Greek (not Watchtower) interlinear, so you can read the words Paul really wrote and receive the true implications of his words.

There's one here: Greek Interlinear Bible (NT)

Colossians chapter 3 is particularly different between the Greek and Watchtower versions. As you read, remember that Jesus is already identified as Lord in verses 1:3 and 2:6.

If you're willing to step outside Watchtower publications, I think you'll begin to understand why Christians are on record as worshiping Jesus for the past 2,000 years. You'll find out that Jesus is a lot more than the Watchtower says he is.

I wish you the best. And I believe if you're seeking Jesus, you'll find him.
 
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timbo3

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Why not just let the Greek text stand as it is? What's wrong with that?

Simply put, it is not accurate in reference to God's name, Jehovah. During the time of Jesus, there was a superstition that was developing among the Jews in using the divine name of Jehovah, to even pronounce it, for Josephus, when recounting God's revelation to Moses at the burning bush, said: "Then God revealed to him His name, which ere then had not come to man's ears, and of which I am forbidden to speak."(Jewish Antiquities, II, 276 [xii, 4]) However, the number of time that God's name of Jehovah is found in the Hebrew Scriptures (commonly called the Old Testament), of 6, 973 times points clearly that God wanted his name used freely.

In connection with the annual Day of Atonement, Danby's translation of the Mishnah (Jewish oral law) states at Sotah 7:6: "In the Temple they pronounced the Name as it was written, but in the provinces by a substituted word." Sanhedrin 7:5 says that a blasphemer was not guilty ' unless he pronounced the Name '. For what its worth, these traditional views may reveal a superstitious tendency to avoid using the divine name sometime before Jerusalem's destruction in 70 C.E. and primarily by the priests, and that only in the provinces.

Thus, the time did come when in reading the Hebrew Scriptures in the original language, the Jewish reader substituted either ’Adho·nai´ (Sovereign Lord) or ’Elo·him´ (God) rather than pronounce the divine name represented by the Tetragrammaton. This superstition was then passed on to later Greek manuscript writers, who supplanted Jehovah with either "Lord" (Greek kyrios) or "God" (Greek theos), such as in the Greek Septuagint in the centuries after the death of the apostles.

Concerning the practice of a Jewish superstition being the "benchmark" to follow by Bible translators, the translation committee of the American Standard Version stated in its preface: "The American Revisers, after a careful consideration, were brought to the unanimous conviction that a Jewish superstition, which regarded the Divine Name as too sacred to be uttered, ought no longer to dominate in the English or any other version of the Old Testament, as it fortunately does not in the numerous versions made by modern missionaries. . . . This personal name [Jehovah], with its wealth of sacred associations, is now restored to the place in the sacred text to which it has an unquestionable claim.”

In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the New Testament), the Bible writers often quoted or alluded to the Hebrew Scriptures hundreds of times. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the New World Translation presents as direct quotations 320 passages from the Hebrew Scriptures. According to a listing published by Westcott and Hort, the combined total of quotations and references is some 890. (The New Testament in the Original Greek, Graz, 1974, Vol. I, pp. 581-595)

Hence, God's name of Jehovah was in many quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures and should rightly be in the Christian Greek Scriptures, as for example at Matthew 4:4, 7 and 10, but later Greek manuscripts supplanted the word "God" (theos).

In the book of Colossians, the name Jehovah is found there 6 times in the New World Translation. The Divine Name King James Bible recognizes the right of Jehovah being at Colossians 3:13. In the other places, at Colossians 1:10, 3:16, 22-24, the evidence for Jehovah is found in early Hebrew translations of Colossians, such as in the (1) Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Hebrew by Elias Hutter, Nurembeg, 1599, (2) Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by William Robertson, London, 1661 (3) Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by Isaac Salkinson and C. D. Ginsburg, London (4) Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by Franz Delitzsch, 1981 (5) Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by A. McCaul, M. S. Alexander, J. C. Reichardt and S. Hoga, London, 1838. This is but some of the references that give weight for the name Jehovah to be in the book of Colossians, as well as context.
 
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peebly63

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That's OK. I wasn't always a Christian. Neither am I a Greek or Hebrew scholar.

It's just that every single Greek NT manuscript we have, and we have more than 5,000 of them, are bereft of "Jehovah", "YHWH", or any variant of them.

In Colossians, in particular, Jesus Christ is identified as the "Lord" in verses 1:3 and 2:6, even in the NWT.

From there, the NWT diverges from the Greek, selectively changing some occurrences of "Lord" to "Jehovah", while leaving others unchanged. This selective translation has the effect of changing the letter from Christian theology to Watchtower theology. I encourage you to read Colossians using an English/Greek (not Watchtower) interlinear, so you can read the words Paul really wrote and receive the true implications of his words.

There's one here: Greek Interlinear Bible (NT)

Colossians chapter 3 is particularly different between the Greek and Watchtower versions. As you read, remember that Jesus is already identified as Lord in verses 1:3 and 2:6.

If you're willing to step outside Watchtower publications, I think you'll begin to understand why Christians are on record as worshiping Jesus for the past 2,000 years. You'll find out that Jesus is a lot more than the Watchtower says he is.

I wish you the best. And I believe if you're seeking Jesus, you'll find him.

the main reason for the use of the word jehovah is to eliminate the idea that it could be the word Lord and that would mean it could be about Jesus and there by imply Jesus is God, which of course he is but the JW's do not believe in the trinity..

so they erroneously add the name Jehovah when it does not appear in any other translation of the new testament..
 
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tezboski99

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This is interesting...

1/ In one of the most spectacular admissions in religious history, the JW's actually admit that Jehovah is wrong: "Yahweh . .. is admittedly superior to Jehovah. 'The wrong spelling Jehovah OCCURS since about 1100' and then it offers its arguments in favor of Yahweh as the correct and original pronunciation." Let Your Name Be Sanctified, Jehovah's Witnesses, p 16-20)
Even worse, they admit that the only reason they keep using it is to please men, not God: "While inclining to view the pronunciation "Yahweh" as the more correct way, we have retained the form "Jehovah" because of people's familiarity with it Since the 14th century. New World Translation, Jehovah's Witnesses, foreword p 25)

I myself find statements and arguments like this puzzling. Primarily because the name "Jesus" is directly based off of the name "Jehovah" just like Jehu, Joshua, Jehoash, etc. Do you feel as strongly about "Jesus" being more accurately called "Yeshua" or "Joshua"?
 
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Jack Terrence

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Do you feel as strongly about "Jesus" being more accurately called "Yeshua" or "Joshua"?
The name "Jesus" as it applies to the person called "Jesus" is the name that is "above EVERY name." It is the nomina sacra.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...

and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord [YHWH],
to the glory of God the Father

Jesus is "YHWH our Righteousness."

In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
"YHWH Our Righteousness." Jeremiah 23:6

Trinitarians and Unitarians agree that the Jer. 23:6 refers to Jesus. He is "YHWH our Righteousness." And don't give me that nonsense explanation that the Church is also called "YHWH our Righteousness" because she is not (33:16). It should read thus,

"And this is He who shall call to her, 'YHWH our Righteousness.' "

YHWH is identified as the one who calls to her to be saved. According to 23:6 it is Jesus. The Father said that the name "Jesus" is "above EVERY name." And He said that you must acknowldege it. But you insist on reducing Him to the level of Joseph and others to your own peril.
 
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tezboski99

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The name "Jesus" as it applies to the person called "Jesus" is the name that is "above EVERY name." It is the nomina sacra.

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...

and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord [YHWH],
to the glory of God the Father

Jesus is "YHWH our Righteousness."

In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
"YHWH Our Righteousness." Jeremiah 23:6

Trinitarians and Unitarians agree that the Jer. 23:6 refers to Jesus. He is "YHWH our Righteousness." And don't give me that nonsense explanation that the Church is also called "YHWH our Righteousness" because she is not (33:16). It should read thus,

"And this is He who shall call to her, 'YHWH our Righteousness.' "

YHWH is identified as the one who calls to her to be saved. According to 23:6 it is Jesus. The Father said that the name "Jesus" is "above EVERY name." And He said that you must acknowldege it. But you insist on reducing Him to the level of Joseph and others to your own peril.

Who is higher the person? Your boss or the person that promotes your boss to a higher position?

The simple reason I don't believe in the trinity teaching is that it shifts like the sands on a beach. As you say "Jesus is the name above EVERY name". Yet, in the same post you acknowlege that Jesus received it from another source higher than he himself is. Obviously, as Paul wrote Jesus is above everything EXCEPT the Father YHWH/Jehovah Himself.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere."

In context of this discussion of the name "Jehovah" in the NT, it's obvious to anyone that cares to look for truth that when using the "Divine Name" of GOD that Jesus and his followers wouldn't hesitate to use it freely in their writings. The human superstition of removing the Name and replacing it with Lord/LORD obvioulsy influenced the translators of the manuscripts at back then.

Come to think of it you still didn't answer the question? Do you feel as much fervor over accuratly translating "Jesus" name to the more proper "Yeshua"? What is it about the name "Jehovah" that many can't seem to stand?
 
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ChetSinger

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In context of this discussion of the name "Jehovah" in the NT, it's obvious to anyone that cares to look for truth that when using the "Divine Name" of GOD that Jesus and his followers wouldn't hesitate to use it freely in their writings. The human superstition of removing the Name and replacing it with Lord/LORD obvioulsy influenced the translators of the manuscripts at back then.
I'm curious. When Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, do you believe he wrote Jehovah, YHWH, or some variant in it?
 
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tezboski99

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I'm curious. When Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians, do you believe he wrote Jehovah, YHWH, or some variant in it?


Yes I do. Why? Because Paul/Saul was a former Pharisee, well educated in the traditions of his heritage and the OT. He knew the DIVINE name and after his conversion he wouldn't have hesitated to use it especially when quoting from the OT.

Colossians 3:13 references Jeremiah 31:34
saith Jehovah: for I will pardon their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more. -Darby

Colossians 1:10 references Micah 4:5;
but we will walk in the name of Jehovah, our God for ever and ever. -Darby

Yes, originally Paul would have written GOD's name or some variant there instead of writing "Lord" as was the growing superstition.
 
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ChetSinger

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Yes I do. Why? Because Paul/Saul was a former Pharisee, well educated in the traditions of his heritage and the OT. He knew the DIVINE name and after his conversion he wouldn't have hesitated to use it especially when quoting from the OT.

Colossians 3:13 references Jeremiah 31:34
saith Jehovah: for I will pardon their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more. -Darby

Colossians 1:10 references Micah 4:5;
but we will walk in the name of Jehovah, our God for ever and ever. -Darby

Yes, originally Paul would have written GOD's name or some variant there instead of writing "Lord" as was the growing superstition.
We have more than 5,000 Greek NT manuscripts in our possession. None contains YHWH nor any variant. When do you think such things were removed?
 
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tezboski99

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We have more than 5,000 NT manuscripts in our possession. None contains YHWH nor any variant. When do you think such things were removed?

I myself don't know. But, my honest guess would be during the time that the Divine Name was systematically being removed.

We have evidence that the Divine Name isn't LORD as is in the vast majority of bibles today. It's even in the foreword about how they translate the TETREGRAMMATON as LORD. How come they don't catch any flack for continuing to remove the name? Yet, when some start to restore it, it's instant CHAOS for some reason?

I honestly don't understand that level of hypocrisy. For those that continue to remove the NAME it's all "enter into the rest of your master" and then for those that restore it there's enmity?

Ezekiel 18:25 (New King James Version)

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?"
 
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