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A Question for Creationists

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Aman777

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And that the land and vegetation preceded the sun and stars...

Dear Archaeopteryx, Sure, the first Earth, the world of Adam, was made the 3rd Day (Genesis 1:9-10), the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our Cosmos. (Genesis 2:4) Plants, herbs and trees were also made the 3rd Day. Gen. 1:12

Our Earth was NOT made until some 9 billion years AFTER the Big Bang.

In Love,
Aman
 
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OllieFranz

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Most, if not all, plants do not mate. They reporduce through their seeds or through bulbs.

You really don't understand biology at all, do you? Where do you think seeds come from? what do you think pollen is? (It's plant sperm, more or less). Why do you think teaching about sex is called teaching the "birds and the bees"?

Are all pastors Con men? You are now showing your anti-Christiasn bias. Christisn are not againts real science.

I am not anti-Christian. I am a Christian. Most Christian pastors understand and embrace evolution. Most Creationist pastors are just as much conned sheep as their flocks are. Most creationists do not understand science.

The con men are the professional lecturers, and "research institutes" that know that they are conning the sheep, but are making all kinds of money doing so.

Kent Hovind has been jailed for his fraudulent practices. Michael Behe was forced in court to admit that his Creationist "Intelligent Design" scheme is no more scientific than astrology.

If it annoying to you, straighten us all out or ignore us.

We do straighten you out, but you'd rather believe the con men than think for yourselves.


'Kind' is as well defined as 'species.'" You just don like to considier them the same thing. If you use 'kind' you have to consider how the Bible uses it and that might put a kink in your evolutinary chain of evolution.

"Kind" used to be defined as "species." Creationists changed that equivalence because species do things that they don't believe well-behaved "kinds" should not do, like splitting and becoming two new species.

Let me clear it up for you. Evolution teaches that all life forms originated from a single source and over the years has evolved into the great variety we have today. Is that accurate or not?

Yes and no. Evolution teaches that population adapt and change over time. Observation of living populations shows is that one such change is speciation, the splitting up of a population into two separate populations representing two separate species. Observation of the fossil record confirms that it has happened in the past, and that we can group species as parent population/daughter populations, sister populations, and cousin populations in exactly the same way as we can chart a family tree for you, your parents, your siblings and your cousins. Observation of DNA confirms the degree of relatedness of these species, exactly the same way that observation of DNA can confirm the degree of relatedness between you and your blood relatives. Most large, multi-cellular organisms fit very nicely into the family tree in this manner.There is some debate when it comes to bacteria-sized species as to how and why to fit them in.

Of course they have no idea how that life form originated or what it was or what it evolved into. You have no idea what the second, third, fourth, into infinity was. You start with an unscientific guess and have been guessing ever since.

Evolution does not require that all life began from a single species. I freely admit that I don't know what life was like when it first started. That does not negate the fact that evolution happens. If I can't explain "how" gravity works, do apples stop falling out of trees?

It is only a strawman to you becaue you disagree with it an cannot refute it.

If you admit that I disagree with that definition, (in fact I think it is ridiculous), then why did you claim that it is what I believe? Knocking down such an easy target, and pretending that you are defeating my position is what makes it a strawman argument. I "can't" refute it because it is so ridiculous that it is not worth refuting, especially since no one believes it.
If I didn't respone to it it is because I have not seen it. I find it difficult in this forum to find some messages. If I ever find it, I will respond.

I reposted it twice already, and it is really not important enough to me at this point to repost it again. Answer it or not, I don't care.
 
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OllieFranz

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If somethign is a FACT, it is true. It is somethign that has been proven.

OK, I am an investigating officer. I pick up a bullet cartridge up off the ground next to the body. That it was next to the body is a fact. Did I prove that fact, or did I observe that fact? In the trial, I need to convince the jury that it is an important piece of evidence. The fact that it was next to the body is an important bit of evidence. How do I prove that fact to the jury?

Not that is just plain silly. Childlren do not always get the same blood type as their parents . If the doctor does not know what type you parents have, they must test yours to prove what kind you need so you will not die.

If it is a fact, then it is known. no more guesswork; no more testing. If there is any doubt, it is not a fact.

A fact is not a description of an observed event. A fact is what the observation reveals to make it a fact.

No, that is not a fact. it is a conclusion. It may become a hypothesis which could grow into a theory.

The FACT is that science had proved there is more than one blood type.

Not exactly. Scientists have observed the fact that sometimes transfused blood clumps, and sometimes it doesn't. They also observed the fact that there is a pattern in whether or not the blood clumps. This led to conjectures or hypotheses concerning the reason for the pattern. The hypotheses were tested, and one prevailed. with more vigorous testing, that hypothesis became a theory. Blood type is a theory, not a fact.

You have shot yourself in the head when you say "there is no such thing as a false fact," then say nothing in science has been proven. That is contradictory.

It only seems that way because you are being sloppy with the meaning of words, again. Vague and fuzzy speech leads to vague and fuzzy thinking. "Fact" and "prove" have very precise and limited meanings, especially in science and math.

Some thing is proven when it can be repeated and observed.

Something is proven if it is the conclusion in a valid syllogism, or the contrapositive of the conclusion of a valid syllogism. When something can be repeated and observed, it can be repeated and observed.

Science has developed a machine that can prove what your blood type is and it will come out the same every time.

"Science" has developed a process (which may or may not involve machines) which can test your blood and determine your type. It comes out the same each time because your blood type is a fact that does not change.


It doesn matter if you can predict it. If it is a fact and you have admditted there are not false facts, it has already been proven and that is a FACT.

Yes, it is a fact. But no, it has not been "proven." If it were "proven" you would know what it is without testing.



All you are doing is digging your hole deeper. You can guess wha tthe blood type might be, but you can also prove what it is. You say we KNOW. If we KNOW, then it has been proven. If it hasn't been proven, you can't know

So, we didn't know anything before the Greeks invented logic? We could not trust our eyes, and our other senses until Plato said we could? We know facts because we can observe them for ourselves. No proof necessary, or possible. Not possible because there is no syllogism involved.
 
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lasthero

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I just can't understand how anyone with a 3 diget IQ can claim science has not prove there is more than one blood type or that DNA does exist.

I think it's fairly safe to say you don't have a 3 digit IQ, so why you feel qualified to say what someone with one would or would not say is beyond me.

You need to tell ther Noble prize folks to stop given the science prize for guessing.

A) There's more than one Nobel Prize, and not all of them are given out for scientific achievements.

B) The Nobel Prize is not given out for proving things. This isn't my opinion, or something that's even really debatable - you can go to their website and see what the Nobel Prizes that relate to science are given for, and how they've been earned in the past, and what one would have to do to earn one in the future. You could email them and ask, if you were so inclined, and they would tell you the same thing.

That always happens when you can't offer the scientific evidence for your dogma.

You have an actual scientist telling you how things work in a field that you don't even have an elementary school-level understanding for. The proper thing to do, in this case, is to sit down, shut up, and assume that, in the depths of your ignorance, you might be wrong about something.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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Most, if not all, plants do not mate.

This is completely and utterly wrong.

I'm not being rude here, so please don't take it as such, but you obviously lack even the most rudimentary knowledge of biology.

So how can you possibly make any claim about evolution when you clearly don't understand the first thing about it? Wouldn't it make more sense to learn at least the rudiments of science, and especially biology, before coming to any conclusion?

Clearly you are letting someone else tell you what to think. Do you think that is a good idea?
 
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bhsmte

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This is completely and utterly wrong.

I'm not being rude here, so please don't take it as such, but you obviously lack even the most rudimentary knowledge of biology.

So how can you possibly make any claim about evolution when you clearly don't understand the first thing about it? Wouldn't it make more sense to learn at least the rudiments of science, and especially biology, before coming to any conclusion?

If you don't, you are letting someone else control what you think. That is a bad thing.

It might be a bad thing, but it is a comfort to some.
 
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EternalDragon

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That makes no sense.

That's like saying it's a fact that Santa Claus exists unless someone can prove otherwise.

Oh, I see. Like Darwinian evolution theory.

Really, why do people bring up Santa Claus? Everyone knows that the idea was based on a real person and that the rest was made up for children for a holiday. Comparing that to real, eyewitness historical testimony is just either poor thinking or trying to make an excuse for unbelief.
 
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ThinkForYourself

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Oh, I see. Like Darwinian evolution theory.

Really, why do people bring up Santa Claus? Everyone knows that the idea was based on a real person and that the rest was made up for children for a holiday. Comparing that to real, eyewitness historical testimony is just either poor thinking or trying to make an excuse for unbelief.

Hmmm, you obviously don't understand the Scientific Method, or what it means when science considers something a "Theory", or else you wouldn't make that statement. You can google both terms, and read up on them.

Because Santa might be real. There is as much proof and evidence for his existence as there is for the Christian Gods. I claim all those stories about Santa are actually divinely inspired by Santa, and the authors were in fact writing His miraculous words.

AFAIK most biblical scholars agree there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus. If I'm wrong here, could you please point me to an eyewitness of account of Jesus verified by most reputable biblical scholars. Thanks in advance.
 
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AV1611VET

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AFAIK most biblical scholars agree there are no eyewitness accounts of Jesus. If I'm wrong here, could you please point me to an eyewitness of account of Jesus verified by most reputable biblical scholars. Thanks in advance.
Okay if we think for ourselves?
 
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ThinkForYourself

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Okay if we think for ourselves?
Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how ludicrous.

But why would you believe something if there is no evidence or proof?

Do you also believe in Santa, Allah, the Easter Bunny, or Zeus? Why or why not?
 
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bhsmte

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Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how ludicrous.

But why would you believe something if there is no evidence or proof?

Do you also believe in Santa, Allah, the Easter Bunny, or Zeus? Why or why not?

They have their reasons to believe what they choose to believe. They just aren't reasons others feel have any logic or evidence to back it up.
 
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EternalDragon

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Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how ludicrous.

But why would you believe something if there is no evidence or proof?

Do you also believe in Santa, Allah, the Easter Bunny, or Zeus? Why or why not?

No, we don't because those figures do not hold up to scrutiny as the bible does. Making that kind of comparison is almost laughable. As if you are grasping for a solid argument and failing.
 
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AV1611VET

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Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, no matter how ludicrous.
That's just cute on ten different levels.

You're a funny person, aren't you?
But why would you believe something if there is no evidence or proof?
We call it faith.
Do you also believe in Santa, Allah, the Easter Bunny, or Zeus? Why or why not?
All the above, with the exception of the Easter Bunny.

Santa is Satan, mocking Christ;* Allah is the primary deity of the Quraysh tribe, where Mohammad came from, depicted by a crescent moon; Zeus is a fallen angel.

* A study of how he does that in the guise of Santa Claus is a real eye opener.

One example:

Santa says: Ho! Ho! Ho!

Zechariah 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the LORD.

(Note too the reference to "the land of the north.")
 
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AV1611VET

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I think you really mean; Ok if we choose to believe what we want to believe? And I would say, absolutely.
That's not his name though, is it?

It's ThinkForYourself.

(You'll get that in about a week.)
 
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AV1611VET

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They just aren't reasons others feel have any logic or evidence to back it up.
That's right.

Try thinking theologically, instead of logically; and you just might understand.

But I doubt it.
 
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