A Question for Catholics

[RileyG]

Catholics believe that Mary need a savior--Jesus.

Amen!

 

[Valletta]

The fourth session of the Council of Trent took place on April 8, 1546,
so long after the cannon was established.

So this is Extra Biblical and not by the apostles

The canon of the Bible is extra-Biblical.

 

[tall73]

First, I'm not doing your homework. The references were in the article by Dr Taylor Marshall.

Second, the only reference YOU NEED is Trent. Either believe what Trent says, or be a cafeteria Catholic, your choice.

A. I am not a Catholic

B. No the referenced sources were not specified, just alluded to.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Yup. In Jewish tradition, the children would have taken care of the widows. Considering there was no one to take care of Mary in her elderly years, Jesus told St. John to please take care of her. Thus, she was a virgin, eternally.

this should be explored a little more.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The canon of the Bible is extra-Biblical.

what?

 

[RileyG]

this should be explored a little more.

Why? How come none of his siblings took care of her? Hint: he had none

 

[RileyG]

what?

The Church decided the canon of the Bible. Is what they meant.

 

[Valletta]

what?

The canon, the list of 73 books of the Bible chosen by the Catholic Church in late 300s, is not part of the original God-breathed text. In fact there is no mention by Jesus, no specific instruction, to take various texts and put those texts into one book called the Bible. Catholics chose the books and chose the order of books. The process by the Catholic Church was long and spanned centuries. Before that time the books chosen as part of the liturgy for the mass differed from area to area. Saint Athanasius is credited with the FIRST New Testament Biblical canon, his list is contained in his Thirty-Ninth Festal Letter of 367 A.D.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The canon, the list of 73 books of the Bible chosen by the Catholic Church in late 300s, is not part of the original God-breathed text. In fact there is no mention by Jesus, no specific instruction, to take various texts and put those texts into one book called the Bible. Catholics chose the books and chose the order of books. The process by the Catholic Church was long and spanned centuries. Before that time the books chosen as part of the liturgy for the mass differed from area to area. Saint Athanasius is credited with the FIRST New Testament Biblical canon, his list is contained in his Thirty-Ninth Festal Letter of 367 A.D.

no, Catholics did not choose the book. The book were written long before 367 and were received by the Church as orthodox and accurate. The order of the books were not choosen by the Chruch, but by the order that they were written and received in. That is why it is Matt, Mark (Peter's Account ) Luke ( Paul gathering of others first hand account.) Luke was written before Mark, but was not received until verified by Peter in approx 60 ad. Peter Gave 5 lecture in Rome in which he read from Both Matthew and Luke in which he confirmed the authentic of the Book and in the process added his own personal encounter with and walk with Christ, which is was recorded by John Mark and is the book of Mark. St Athanasius only recorded what was already being practiced and accepted. He did not invent anything or Choose anything. it had already been Chosen.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

AD 170
The Muratorian Canon, which included all New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John, was compiled

• AD 363
  The Council of Laodicea stated that only 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) and the Old Testament were canonical.
  
  
  
• AD 397
  The Council of Carthage published the names of the 27 books that the church considered to be genuine Scripture.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

250 A.D., Origen

But when our Lord Jesus Christ comes, whose arrival that prior son of Nun designated, he sends priests, his apostles, bearing “trumpets hammered thin,” the magnificent and heavenly instruction of proclamation. Matthew first sounded the priestly trumpet in his Gospel; Mark also; Luke and John each played their own priestly trumpets. Even Peter cries out with trumpets in two of his epistles; also James and Jude. In addition, John also sounds the trumpet through his epistles [and Revelation], and Luke, as he describes the Acts of the Apostles. And now that last one comes, the one who said, “I think God displays us apostles last,” and in fourteen of his epistles, thundering with trumpets, he casts down the walls of Jericho and all the devices of idolatry and dogmas of philosophers, all the way to the foundations (Hom. Jos. 7.1).

As one can see from the list above, all 27 books of the New Testament are accounted for (Origen clearly counts Hebrews as part of Paul’s letters). The only ambiguity is a text-critical issue with Revelation, but we have good evidence from other sources that Origen accepted Revelation as Scripture (Eusebius, Hist. eccl. 6.25.10).

What is the Earliest Complete List of the Canon of the New Testament? - Canon Fodder

In the study of the New Testament canon, scholars like to highlight the first time we see a complete list of 27 books. Inevitably, the list contained in Athanasius’ famous Festal Letter (c.367) is mentioned as the first time this happened. As a result, it is often claimed that the New Testament...

michaeljkruger.com

 

[Valletta]

AD 170
The Muratorian Canon, which included all New Testament books except Hebrews, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and 3 John, was compiled

• AD 363
  The Council of Laodicea stated that only 26 books of the New Testament (everything but Revelation) and the Old Testament were canonical.
  
  
  
• AD 397
  The Council of Carthage published the names of the 27 books that the church considered to be genuine Scripture.

As I said, the process of the Catholic Church choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed. Revelation was the last NT book chosen. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Why? How come none of his siblings took care of her? Hint: he had none

not convinced that is the case. he had brothers & sister Matthew 13:55&56, Mark 6:3, John 2:12, Gal 1:19, Act 1:14, John 12:46-40
Matthew 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus

knew is the another word for sex. she did not have sex until after him she had give birth to Jesus.

So the Catholic Church blatantly contradicts the scripture.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

As I said, the process of the Catholic Church choosing the 73 books of the Bible spanned centuries. Lists became closer to the final 73 selected by the Catholic Church as time passed. Revelation was the last NT book chosen. Saint Athanasius is credited with the first New Testament Biblical canon list in 367 A.D. The list was approved by Pope Damasus, and formally approved of by Councils at Hippo and Carthage in the late 300s. Pope Innocent I wrote a letter to the Bishop of Toulouse in 405 A.D. containing the list.

the point is you said the Catholic Church choose, No they did not. They did not decide which book were and were not scripture. The authors themselves decided and the church preserved this decision. It was simply handed down. all the Catholic can say is we preserved what was handed down to us. they invented nothing and choose nothing.

 

[Valletta]

the point is you said the Catholic Church choose, No they did not. They did not decide which book were and were not scripture. The authors themselves decided and the church preserved this decision. It was simply handed down. all the Catholic can say is we preserved what was handed down to us. they invented nothing and choose nothing.

A lot of those books are to quite specific audiences and the author not even hinting the book is God-breathed. Given your statement, why do you think there were so many different ideas of which books were Holy Scripture for so many years and so long after the books were written?

 

[RileyG]

not convinced that is the case. he had brothers & sister Matthew 13:55&56, Mark 6:3, John 2:12, Gal 1:19, Act 1:14, John 12:46-40
Matthew 1:25 but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus

knew is the another word for sex. she did not have sex until after him she had give birth to Jesus.

So the Catholic Church blatantly contradicts the scripture.

Actually, there is no word for "cousins" in scripture, and it does not mention Jesus's siblings in the finding of the temple. Brothers or sisters can mean ANY male or female relative.

Also, it never said she had sex. She even asked Archangel Gabriel how would this be? Since she was a consecrated temple virgin *. She never intended to have sex with a man.

**The EO Church accepts this as canon

 

[RileyG]

the point is you said the Catholic Church choose, No they did not. They did not decide which book were and were not scripture. The authors themselves decided and the church preserved this decision. It was simply handed down. all the Catholic can say is we preserved what was handed down to us. they invented nothing and choose nothing.

Oh really?

The Council of Rome, and The Synod of Hippo. That's where the Canon of Scripture was decided, so YES, the Catholic Church chose the Canon of Scripture

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Actually, there is no word for "cousins" in scripture, and it does not mention Jesus's siblings in the finding of the temple. Brothers or sisters can mean ANY male or female relative.

Also, it never said she had sex. She even asked Archangel Gabriel how would this be? Since she was a consecrated temple virgin *. She never intended to have sex with a man.

**The EO Church accepts this as canon

The word adelphoi is used in the New Testament to refer to Jesus' brothers, which is a Greek word that literally means "of the same womb, brothers"
not cousins.

There are those that claim his cousins were James and John the sons of Zebedee. His uncle and they wife of his aunt Salome the sister of Mary.

 

[RileyG]

The word adelphoi is used in the New Testament to refer to Jesus' brothers, which is a Greek word that literally means "of the same womb, brothers"

...that's because there are no word for cousins....thus, John took care of the Blessed Virgin, since NO SIBLINGS existed to care for her...that's what the early Church has always taught, she was always virgin.

Martin Luther and John Calvin agreed Mary is ever-virgin.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm not messing with anyone, I promise.

Per the scripture, nothing has convinced me Jesus had siblings. And no, I do not necessarily know those greek words, other than aldephois.

Why weren't his siblings more prominent in the gospels, then?

they were stated by name, and mentioned on may occasions, I put a list of the test where they were mentioned.

Why did all the early Church fathers and reformers agree Mary is ever-virgin?

because that is all they knew and they might have been afraid to say other wise. The chruche was very powerful.