A question for all, triggered by another thread

[cenimo]

notto

It comes dowm to this, considering 9-11 until now, if in the 1940's, we had the same attitudes in the country we do now, after Pearl Harbor, we'd either all be speaking Japanese right now or would never have been born because out parents and grandparents would have been annihilated...

 

[Evangelion]

What a load of cobblers!

 

[panterapat]

WWIII may be fought by enemies of antiquity. Abraham fathered two sons. Ishimil was the child of Abraham and his slave girl. Issaic was the child of Abraham and Sarah as a result of an angel's promise. After Issaic's birth, Ishimil was banished. Ishimil's lineage has given us the Islamic faith. Issaic's lineage gave us the Jewish faith and by extension the Christian faith. The two "sides" have been diametricly opposed since that time. The epic war will be the Christian nations verses the Islamic nations. May God be with us!

In Christ, Patrick

 

[notto]

Well cenimo, It would appear that I'm in good company.

The President's statements pretty well sum up my thoughts and opinions.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html

"Islam is Peace" Says President
Remarks by the President at Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.
Washington, D.C.

"THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a -- wide-ranging discussions on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens.

These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.

The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.

When we think of Islam we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race -- out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country. Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads. And they need to be treated with respect. In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect.

Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear cover must be not intimidated in America. That's not the America I know. That's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.

Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America, they represent the worst of humankind, and they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

This is a great country. It's a great country because we share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They're outraged, they're sad. They love America just as much as I do.

I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by. And may God bless us all"

 

[cenimo]

= the US being the biggest consumer of petroleum and too much Saudi $$$$$ and influence in America, coupled with globalist corporations with noloyalty to any flag but a dollar sign


let Saudi or the entire UAR be the 51st state and see what kind of statement we get

 

[Michael0701]

well then as islam is a religion of peace, it has been hijacked by those who have corrupted it's teachings. But how can you explain that it is required that muslims read the koran (I'm not sure when and where I got that from, but it's what I understand) and get such different interpretations? And I'm not talking about the difference between salvation through grace vs salvation through works, I'm talking about openly inciting people to kill jews and americans.

I say embrace peace loving muslims into american society, but for now watch them carefully and prosecute the perverters who incite hatred for their adopted homeland.

 

[Hector Medina]

How about this:

"Those wern't necessarily Muslims who crashed the plane into the building,they were terrorists".

Just becuase someone mugs a lady for her purse and hes from 29th Street dosen't mean everyone 29th Streeter is necessarily a hoodlum.


Sinc.

Hector

 

[cenimo]

but they were all Muslims

to say anything else is revisionist history...and revisionist history rarely works while people who remember the real history are still up and around or they are so up there in years that no one pays attention to them anymore

 

[Wolseley]

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=474114#post474114

 

[Evangelion]

Hmmm... so Muslim extremists are responsible for acts of aggression in the name of militant Islam. Such acts involve (a) aggression against Israel, and (b) aggression against the supporters of Israel.

What an incredible revelation!

 

[cenimo]

notto

Gee, I wonder why President Bush said nice things about Muslims... wait a minute:

Saudi Prince Donates Half Mil to Bush's Alma Mater
http://opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002836

The Bush Scholarship Fund

The New York Sun reports that Prince Alwaleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia has donated half a million dollars to Phillips Academy, Andover, for the "President George Herbert Walker Bush Scholarship Fund." Phillips Academy is a prep school that both Presidents Bush attended.

Alwaleed is the same prince whose $10 million donation to Sept. 11 victims Rudy Giuliani spurned when the cash turned out to come with a statement demanding that America "re-examine its policies in the Middle East and adopt a more balanced stance toward the Palestinian cause."

(Complete Article below)
http://www.nysun.com/sunarticle.asp?artID=437

Saudi Arabian Prince Gives $500,000 To Bush Scholarships

Critics Call Andover Donation ‘Disgusting’

BY TIMOTHY STARKS

WASHINGTON - The latest move in the Saudi Arabian public relations effort in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks is a half-million dollar donation by a Saudi prince to the President George Herbert Walker Bush Scholarship Fund at Phillips Academy, Andover.Unlike Mayor Giuliani, who sent back a $10 million disaster-relief check from Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the Massachusetts private school intends to keep the money. In fact, the school, where both George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush spent their high school years, says it solicited the gift.

To critics of Saudi Arabia, the gesture by Prince Alwaleed smacks of another in a long line of ploys aimed at deflecting legitimate complaints about a kingdom that spawned 15 of the 19 September 11 terrorists. What’s more, the donation appears to be targeted to curry favor with President George W. Bush, the son of the man the scholarship fund is named after.

“It’s disgusting,” the senior policy analyst for the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, Stephen Schwartz, said. “It’s vulgar. It shows that powerful Saudis still think the way to improve a relationship is to buy a relationship.”

The $500,000 donation was reported by the Arab News, a quasi-governmental Saudi Arabian English-language daily, this week. It said President Bush “commended” contributors to donate the check to the new scholarship in his father’s name.

A White House spokesman, Gordon Johndroe, said he was unaware of the donation and could not research the question yesterday. But, he added, “I’m positive about one thing: Contributions made in any form are not going to be influencing the president.”

Prince Alwaleed has been waging a campaign to alter American perceptions of Saudi Arabia and Islam since September 11. The results have been rocky. Mr. Giuliani was prepared to accept his $10 million contribution, but that was before the prince released a letter saying, “At times like this one we must address some of the issues that led to such a criminal attack.” The American government, he said, “must reexamine its policies in the Middle East and adopt a more balanced stance toward the Palestinian cause.”

Prince Alwaleed has also given $500,000 to the Council on American-Islamic Relations to fund the distribution of Islamic texts to American libraries, among them books that defended Hamas and Hezbollah, two groups on the State Department’s list of terrorist organizations. One of the books said that “pro-Israel bias of government leaders” is to blame for the two groups being put on the State Department’s list of terrorist organizations.

A spokeswoman for the Andover school, Sharon Britton, said Phillips Academy — which the elder Mr. Bush graduated from in 1942 — was aware of Prince Alwaleed’s comments and of Mr. Giuliani’s rejection of his money.

“Obviously, this has nothing to do with any of that,” Ms. Britton said. “The money has been donated, and it’s supporting an outstanding educational opportunity. That’s good for the whole world.”

Ms. Britton said a scholarship fundraiser, whom she did not name, was an associate of Prince Alwaleed and suggested him as a potential donor. The contribution is part of a $3.3 million endowment that will assist six students a year who demonstrate financial need, leadership ability, and academic assistance, she said.

Students pay $28,520 in tuition and board to attend Andover. Additional expenses run to $2,200.

Ms. Britton said she could not answer several questions asked by The New York Sun as much of the staff of the academy was away during the holiday break.

Prince Alwaleed’s Riyadh-based Kingdom Holding Company announced the donation on Christmas Eve, according to Arab News. The donation was part of his contribution to “programs aimed at facilitating better understanding with the West, especially at a time when misconceptions about Arabs and Muslims continue to loom there.”

“There are no strings attached” to the money, Ms. Britton said.

Mr. Schwartz said the donations may not change the school, but Prince Alwaleed “gives money to lay the basis for Saudi influence and now he’s starting with the elite youths.”

“And he just happens to pick the prep school the president’s father attended? There’s something profoundly wrong with this,” Mr. Schwartz said.

Another Saudi critic, the executive director of the Saudi Institute, Ali Al-Ahmed, said, “these donations are not innocent donations.”

“The general purpose is very clear,” Mr. Al-Ahmed said. “They’re trying to influence the administration indirectly. The specific purpose, I would guess, is that they’re trying to trap the president and make it hard for him to criticize their policies.”

The Saudi Embassy, through spokesman Adel Al-Jubeir, said the prince’s donation was private and separate from anything the Saudi government was doing.

A Clinton administration State Department official who follows Saudi financial dealings and how they affect America-Saudi relations, Jonathan Winer, said the donation made good business sense for the Saudis.

“They’ve made a lot of investments, be it for business purposes or political purposes,” Mr. Winer said. “It’s critical as a way of maintaining their own security.”

George H.W. Bush protected Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, and his home state of Texas offers a natural connection to Saudi Arabia in the oil business.

On the other hand, the donation does raise some questions, Mr. Winer said.

If Mayor Giuliani rejected the money, why didn’t the school reject it, Mr. Winer asked. “I don’t believe I’d take the money,” he said. Prince Alwaleed’s comments about America’s responsibility for September 11 were “a pretty weak and pathetic rationalization for evil. It’s offensive.”


__________________

 

[Evangelion]

LOL, a healthy wad of cash, and the US govmint is in your pocket.

Suckers!

 

[Evangelion]

"George Herbert Walker Bush"???

He should have used the money to change his name by deed poll!

Maybe that was the idea all along!

 

[notto]

Of course, Bush didn't see a dime of that money. Nor did his campaign fund. Nor did the Republic Party. It was a gift, solicited for by the school, and given to the school.

THERE ARE BLACK HELICOPTERS EVERYWHERE. GET MY TINFOIL HAT.

This is akin to the article cenimo posted in the thread that inspired this one.

You know, the article that said that Immigrants who vote, come to America and get an education, become doctors and stay here as american doctors, support political activities, participate in public dialog, own businessess, etc. are "Targeting America".

 

[Evangelion]

This isn't about conspiracies.

It's about corruption in government - a universal fact of life.

 

[Evangelion]

This is what made me laugh...

“It’s disgusting,” the senior policy analyst for the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, Stephen Schwartz, said. “It’s vulgar. It shows that powerful Saudis still think the way to improve a relationship is to buy a relationship.”

Yeah, and you know what? It works!

Go complain to your govmint, Mr Schwartz.

 

[notto]

I just don't see this donation impacting the presidents words or course of action. I think it is a stretch to say that a donation like this (to a school) could cause the President to make the distinction between mainstream Muslims who are immigrants to America and participate fully in American life or mainstream Muslims in other countries who have supported our war on terrorism and the fundamentalist Muslims who are perpetrating these acts if he did not believe it existed.

I think it is a stretch to think that a donation like this could put the President in their pocket. I could be wrong but I don't think the dirt goes that deep.

I think it is a conspiracy theory to think that all Muslims, through their regular actions as American immigrants such as voting, owning businesses, supporting elected officials that support their views, becoming doctors, getting an education, etc are "Targeting America".

If this is the case, the Europeans have been targeting America for generations.

 

[Evangelion]

notto, money talks - and $500,000 talks pretty loud.

It happens in my country; it happens in your country; federal elections are full of it.

We all know that.

 

[notto]

So what would it cost Saddam to make this whole ugly mess go away?

 

[Evangelion]

BTW, this is not about causing the President to "make the distinction between mainstream Muslims who are imigrants to America and participate fully in American life or mainstream Muslims in other countries who have supported our war on terrorism and the fundamentalist Muslims who are perpetrating these acts if he did not believe it existed."

It's about oil for Bush, PR for Islam, and the protection of Saudi business interests.

Whether you think the money's clean or not, the bottom line is that this is the worst possible time for such a transaction to occur, and any climate-savvy government should be capable of realising that.

Giuliani's rejection casts a shadow over Bush's acceptance.