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A question about the Comforter

anatolian

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Hello to all precious followers of NCR. A question has come to my mind. According to the Gospel of John Jesus says that 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away , the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart , I will send him unto you. "

If Jesus does not go, the Comforter will not come and it is better Jesus go so that the Comforter comes. So my conclusion is that the Comforter is superior to Jesus in contrast with Trinity where Jesus is above the Holy Spirit.
 

Supreme

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MOD HAT ON

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Moved to Exploring Christianity. Please post queries regarding Christianity in this forum in future.

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razeontherock

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Ok, the OP is still falling prey to typical Muslim mis-understanding of what Trinity means.

We do not say a mortal man has become an idol to be worshipped, neither is any one aspect of G-d's Divine Nature somehow superior or inferior to any other. The passage in question refers to the difference between having 1 physically present Prophet (High Priest, Mediator, Advocate, shepherd, etc etc etc) vs having free access to Him by His Spirit, which knows no bounds.

One is "better" in the same sense that we shall do "greater" works than He did.
 
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Bear.Fr00t

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The Holy Spirit can be everywhere and with everyone at the same time. Jesus on the other hand was limited by his human body while on earth, and could only minister to whoever was physically present with him at a given time.

Edit: Oops I didn't read razeon's response he said the same thing :p
 
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Some Other Guy

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Hello to all precious followers of NCR. A question has come to my mind. According to the Gospel of John Jesus says that 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away , the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart , I will send him unto you. "

If Jesus does not go, the Comforter will not come and it is better Jesus go so that the Comforter comes. So my conclusion is that the Comforter is superior to Jesus in contrast with Trinity where Jesus is above the Holy Spirit.

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit. None of the persons of the Trinity are superior to one another, although the Holy Spirit/Comforter submits to Jesus, just as Jesus submits to the Father. This is why Jesus sends the Holy Spirit and why the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus and not of Himself.
 
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salida

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Jesus, the Son of God, who is God came to save the world from their sins. He was the perfect sacrifice.
www.livingwaters.com/good/

Lets asks ourselves what is the purpose of the Holy Spirit? When we ask for Christ in our lives-he comes in our hearts with our human spirit. This gives the christian the power to live a christian life. One is not more superior than the other-but have different roles under the Godhead.
 
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Harry3142

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anatolian-

This passage may help you understand what we mean by saying that Jesus is now reigning over us. It also tells us that his reign will end:

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put inder him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (I Corinthians 15:20-28,NIV)

If we were talking about two people, we would say that Jesus will eventually be demoted. But we are not talking about two people:

"God is spirt, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. " (The Gospel of St. John 4:24,NIV)

We have Jesus, who is both corporeal and divine. We have God the Father, who is spirit and divine. So who is the Holy Spirit? Jesus Christ himself gave us a good clue when he gave us a dire warning:

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (The Gospel of St. Matthew 12:30-32,NIV)

What are the words 'father' and 'son'? They're titles. The same person can be a father, a son, an uncle, a cousin, a king, and have a myriad other titles. But what is the word 'spirit'? It's not a title. Instead, it refers to a specific being. So we have been warned by Jesus Christ himself to approach the being identified by the name 'Holy Spirit' respectfully.

But why? "God is spirit", "Holy Spirit"; when we refer to God this way, we aren't referring to some messenger of God, or even some mysterious power that emanates from God. We are referring to the very essence of God's own being, the very core of his own nature, and there we must tread softly.

So why was Scripture worded with phrases such as you have quoted? It was because that was how the disciples were able to comprehend what was happening. They were down-to-earth working men, not theological intellectuals; they needed to hear the message in a manner that they could relate to.

God manifested himself as a Father, Creator of all that is, Author of Justice, the person to whom all of us must answer for our thoughts, words and actions. If we were judged by our own merit we would surely be condemned, because we just couldn't 'measure up' to the standard of righteousness which he requires of all who would come before him on their own merit. But because he is a Father who loves his children, even when those children are unworthy of his love, he laid out the plan for a rescue mission. What we could never do, namely, bridge the gulf between ourselves and him, the Father could do.

So he also manifested himself to us as a Son, showing the perfect obedience to 'God the Father' that we cannot. But instead of using this perfection to lord it over us, he deliberately sacrificed himself for us. With his resurrection the righteousness which we could never obtain by our own efforts was able to be bestowed on us as a direct result of 'God the Son's' efforts.

But at the core of both 'Father' and 'Son' is 'Spirit'. It was God as spirit that caused us to see, and understand, his role as both Father and Son. He is that spirit who is set apart; he is the Holy Spirit.
 
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bling

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There are different portions of the Holy Spirit and the most important is the indwelling portion that you can have 24/7. If you do not quench the indwelling Holy Spirit he will be active in all you do and thus keep you from sinning. The indwelling Holy Spirit portion can only come after a person has sinned and been forgive. Christ going to the cross provide a way for us to be forgiven and thus the holy Spirit could come to us as a helped and guarentee of our salvation.
 
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ebia

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Hello to all precious followers of NCR. A question has come to my mind. According to the Gospel of John Jesus says that 16:7 " Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away , the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart , I will send him unto you. "

If Jesus does not go, the Comforter will not come and it is better Jesus go so that the Comforter comes. So my conclusion is that the Comforter is superior to Jesus in contrast with Trinity where Jesus is above the Holy Spirit.
The president visiting the disaster zone took in the damage, spoke to people about the situation, and then said "right, I need to go back to the capital and send the aid you need".
 
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seashale76

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You come to this conclusion, yet Muslims believe differently about Jesus.

Is it true that Muslims say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit? It says this in the Quran regarding Jesus, right?

Kalima tu’llah—"The Word of Allah (God)
Ruhun min Allah—"A spirit from Allah (God)."


If so, and to all evidence the Quran does seem to claim this about Jesus, and you believe that Jesus isn't God, then you have a serious problem. If Christ isn't God, then you believe that God is without word or spirit.
 
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Emmy

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Dear anatolian. When Jesus returned to the Father/God, He told His disciples " I am going back to the Father, and we will send the Holy-Spirit to carry on the work on Earth." Then Jesus returned to God, where He is now, pleading our prayers to God. The Holy-Spirit/Comforter is also our Teacher and Helper. God is Spirit, anatolian, and God is everywhere, and sees everything, God-Father who made us in His image, God-Son who is our Intercessor, and God-Holy-Spirit who is on Earth to help and teach us, Three Holy Beings, BUT ONE GOD, working together to redeem Mankind. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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