A question about Lay Servants (nee Lay Speakers) and Licensed Local Pastors

[judson1982]

Are there other denominations that have similar ministries?

 

[Paidiske]

Is a lay servant a lay person who's authorised to preach? Anglicans have those.

And is a Licensed Local Pastor someone who's been ordained, but is limited to one place in their ministry? We have those too, but much less commonly (often used as a stopgap in rural areas where there just aren't enough ministers to go around).

 

[circuitrider]

Licensed Local Pastors are indeed limited by location. They are given authority to administer the sacraments, but only with the congregation they are serving. Lay Servants may preach but they also work in different kinds of lay leadership roles in the church. They cannot administer the sacraments.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

In the Church of England, we have the ministry of Licensed Lay Minister (Reader), which is a license from the bishop to preach and take funerals. There is also an occasional minister licences to lay people to preach a few times a year for up to ten minutes. The LLM training takes 3 years, and the OM training one year.

There are also licenses for ordained people to be able to preach and administer sacraments in a particular church. This is common in workplace ministries.

 

[actionsub]

In the Church of England, we have the ministry of Licensed Lay Minister (Reader), which is a license from the bishop to preach and take funerals. There is also an occasional minister licences to lay people to preach a few times a year for up to ten minutes. The LLM training takes 3 years, and the OM training one year.

There are also licenses for ordained people to be able to preach and administer sacraments in a particular church. This is common in workplace ministries.

The United Church of Christ often licenses ministers, generally in the same way the Methodists do. The license is only valid for that congregation and the tenure of the minister in question. In that context, it's often a state of limbo while ordination requirements are filled, but allow for one to pastor in the meantime.

 

[bekkilyn]

Another difference is that licensed local pastors are typically less itinerant than Elders as there is no itinerant requirement. Doesn't mean they won't ever get moved around, but it's less frequent.

A licensed local pastor gets licensed after going through the same lengthy candidacy program as Elders and Deacons, but has the option of committing to a Course of Study that typically lasts at least 5 years *during* the time the Pastor is appointed to a charge, rather than going to divinity school for an M.Div. This allows one to serve as a pastor more immediately and with much less financial cost then Div School track. (There also used to be a requirement to be at least 40 years of age, but it's no longer the case).

There is an option to pursue an Advanced Course of Study after the Basic Course of Study after which one could request ordination as an Elder, so being a Licensed Local Pastor could be an alternate (though lengthier) track of becoming an Elder.

I also know of some who went to Divinity School and received their M.Div, but then decided they wanted to be licensed rather than ordained (sometimes because of the itinerantcy requirement for Elders, and sometimes for other reasons.)

(Just completed Licensing School last week and will be starting a new appointment to a charge on July 1.)

 

[Dave-W]

(Just completed Licensing School last week and will be starting a new appointment to a charge on July 1.)

Congrats!!!

 

[bekkilyn]

Congrats!!!

Thank you! I just have to trust that God really does know what he's doing since this was not my original intent.

 

[Dave-W]

Thank you! I just have to trust that God really does know what he's doing since this was not my original intent.

Funny how things work out like that.

 

[circuitrider]

A licensed local pastor gets licensed after going through the same lengthy candidacy program as Elders and Deacons,

Up to a point. Licensed Local Pastors and also candidates for Elder or Deacon go through the same process with the District Committee on Ministry. But if you then go on to be a Deacon or Elder who go through a whole other examination process with the conference Board of Ordained Ministry where you can then be made a "Provisional Elder" or "Provisional Deacon" in the conference. Then you must serve full time in an appointment for at least two years meeting annual with the Board of Ordained Ministry each year to check your progress. Then when the Board thinks you are ready, you can be ordained and voted into full conference membership.

While Licensed Pastors are less itinerate that also have no guarantee year by year that you will be employed as a pastor. And, you license is only valid when you are serving and where you are appointed to serve.

Elders and Deacons have guaranteed appointment until they reach mandatory retirement age at 72.

 

[bekkilyn]

Up to a point. Licensed Local Pastors and also candidates for Elder or Deacon go through the same process with the District Committee on Ministry. But if you then go on to be a Deacon or Elder who go through a whole other examination process with the conference Board of Ordained Ministry where you can then be made a "Provisional Elder" or "Provisional Deacon" in the conference. Then you must serve full time in an appointment for at least two years meeting annual with the Board of Ordained Ministry each year to check your progress. Then when the Board thinks you are ready, you can be ordained and voted into full conference membership.

I suppose I was thinking of the process of becoming a certified candidate since it's the same for all of the above. Then Deacons and Elders would continue as a certified candidate to become provisional. For licensed local pastors the DCOM meeting is often composed of a vote to be certified and a vote to approve the license.

While Licensed Pastors are less itinerate that also have no guarantee year by year that you will be employed as a pastor. And, you license is only valid when you are serving and where you are appointed to serve.

Elders and Deacons have guaranteed appointment until they reach mandatory retirement age at 72.

True, but...for Deacons it's trickier. Deacons are obligated to find their own appointments and then the bishop appoints them there once they've found something. If they don't find an appointment, they have no job, so to speak, so there really isn't a guarantee for Deacons like there is for Elders. So basically you can have no guarantee as a licensed local pastor in a more immediate sense, or you can spend thousands of dollars and time in divinity school as a Deacon candidate and still have no real guarantee of having a paid appointment once you're out.

And if your Deacon appointment is with a non-profit or some other organization and that organization goes under or lets you go, you're basically in the same boat as anyone else who loses a secular job. Back to finding your own appointment that the bishop can then appoint you to.

The upside is that Deacons have a huge amount of flexibility for ministry that Elders do not typically experience, and they still wouldn't lose their ordination regardless. They're still Deacons whether they're active or not.

Elders seem to have the most "job security" but the least flexibility, which is a positive for some and a negative for others who want the whole appointment system to go away.

Oh one other note specifically on licensed local pastors that I didn't know until the assistant to the bishop of my conference came in to do a talk, but the license for local pastors is not based on location. It's entirely based on the community of the congregation. I then asked the question that if I took my local congregation on a trip to the mountains or to Hawaii and decided to hold a service for that congregation there, and wanted to serve them communion, could I do that? And the answer was yes, since I am still serving my appointed local community. (Now if I were to in reality do something like that, I'd likely call and verify just to be sure, but that's what we were told.)

 

[circuitrider]

Right. I just did not want the impression given that the educational requirements are the same for LLP as for Elders and Deacons.

I am an Elder in full connection and I see the itineracy a good thing. The security and not having to love for a position mean more to me than flexibility. Also, few LLPs get to pastor larger churches.

 

[bekkilyn]

Right. I just did not want the impression given that the educational requirements are the same for LLP as for Elders and Deacons.

I am an Elder in full connection and I see the itineracy a good thing. The security and not having to love for a position mean more to me than flexibility. Also, few LLPs get to pastor larger churches.

I view it as a good thing as well. I also like it in the sense that Elders are willing to go wherever they and their unique gifts are needed (at least theoretically) rather than competing with each other for more "desirable" positions like some other denominations experience. I love the connectional aspect of the UMC and really hope we retain it, though I do understand why some Elders are unhappy with it.

 

[circuitrider]

I view it as a good thing as well. I also like it in the sense that Elders are willing to go wherever they and their unique gifts are needed (at least theoretically) rather than competing with each other for more "desirable" positions like some other denominations experience. I love the connectional aspect of the UMC and really hope we retain it, though I do understand why some Elders are unhappy with it.

I can't see itineracy going away any time soon. It is so deeply ingrained in our system.

 

[TruePriest]

I have my Local License and have held it two years now. I'm working on my District and after that my ordination.

Local License allows a person to fill pulpits in their zone or district if needed, and to be an interim pastor while a church seeks a new fulltime preacher. Typically they are people in process of gaining ordination.

The biggest difference is they cannot give communion or baptize or marry a tone, and have no official capacity with the license, like an elder or deacon or ordained mi sister does.

 

[TruePriest]

*marry anyone, and *ordained minister

 

[circuitrider]

I have my Local License and have held it two years now. I'm working on my District and after that my ordination.

Local License allows a person to fill pulpits in their zone or district if needed, and to be an interim pastor while a church seeks a new fulltime preacher. Typically they are people in process of gaining ordination.

The biggest difference is they cannot give communion or baptize or marry a tone, and have no official capacity with the license, like an elder or deacon or ordained mi sister does.

The Nazarene Local License functions differently than that United Methodist version. Our Local Pastors are only licensed while serving a church. (Part time or full time.) They can officiate the sacraments in the local church they are appointed to.

 

[actionsub]

I have my Local License and have held it two years now. I'm working on my District and after that my ordination.

Local License allows a person to fill pulpits in their zone or district if needed, and to be an interim pastor while a church seeks a new fulltime preacher. Typically they are people in process of gaining ordination.

The biggest difference is they cannot give communion or baptize or marry a tone, and have no official capacity with the license, like an elder or deacon or ordained mi sister does.

You had me frightened for a bit there until I saw you were Nazarene! A UMC licensed local pastor officiated at my wedding!
That said, it looks like the Nazarene local license works a lot like Southern Baptist licensing. Even though I attend a Methodist church, theoretically I'm still licensed in the SBC as a minister.

 

[circuitrider]

You had me frightened for a bit there until I saw you were Nazarene! A UMC licensed local pastor officiated at my wedding!
That said, it looks like the Nazarene local license works a lot like Southern Baptist licensing. Even though I attend a Methodist church, theoretically I'm still licensed in the SBC as a minister.

Yes, a UMC Local Pastor can performing weddings and can use the title "Reverend." They meet annually with the District Committee on Ordained Ministry to renew their license.

There are a lot of Licensed Local Pastors in Iowa who are serving small congregations all over the state.

 

[bekkilyn]

Also while a United Methodist local pastor license can serve as part of the process of an alternate route to to ordination, many choose to *not* go that route and remain as a local pastor for their entire ministry career.

Here is an article with more info on UMC licensed local pastors: Local pastors on the rise | United Methodist News Service