A question about Fundamental Christianity

[Spoonbill]

Hi Guys, its me again

I have a question I was hoping some of you could help answer. I have heard / seen / read that there are a lot of Christians (generally Fundamentalist Christians) that believe the world is approx 6000 years old.

Now, I have never met a Christian that actually believes this. Almost every single Christian I have met actually believes in the Big Bang theory (albeit a Big Bang created by God, which is a perfectly acceptable theory as any).

Is it true that some FCs believe this? because I have never met a Christian who does. Is this just another generalist theory athiests use to make Christians look stupid? Because I am starting to believe that Christians don't believe this theory at all.

Thank you.

 

[laconicstudent]

There are some who do. It seems to be a minority position, certainly, even among FC's.

 

[ebia]

Hi Guys, its me again

I have a question I was hoping some of you could help answer. I have heard / seen / read that there are a lot of Christians (generally Fundamentalist Christians) that believe the world is approx 6000 years old.

Now, I have never met a Christian that actually believes this. Almost every single Christian I have met actually believes in the Big Bang theory (albeit a Big Bang created by God, which is a perfectly acceptable theory as any).

Is it true that some FCs believe this? because I have never met a Christian who does. Is this just another generalist theory athiests use to make Christians look stupid? Because I am starting to believe that Christians don't believe this theory at all.

Thank you.

Tends to depend where you are and what sort of Christian you are speaking to.

 

[Van]

Yes, many Christians do believe everything was created less than 10,000 years ago. This is based on the generations listed in the Bible from Adam to Christ. If you allow around 25 years per generation, then Adam lived about 6000 years ago. Next, if you assume the days of creation - Genesis chapter one - were 24 hours long, then everything was created less than 10,000 years ago. The problem with the fact that our best scientists believe the earth is around 5 billion years old and the Universe around 15 billion years old is answered with the "apparent age argument." Since Jesus created the wine at Cana within minutes, and the wine had an apparent age of days or weeks or months - the time to raise, pick, squeeze, store and ferment the wine - God can create things that appear to be older than their creation date.

The problem with this view is that God is not a God of confusion, so it seems improbable that God would create light from a supernova that never happened that would appear to be caused by a star exploding 165,000 years ago. The argument just does not hang together for me, but lots of folks accept it.

 

[Spoonbill]

It is unfortunate for Christians that some Christians believe this. I think more people would be inclinded to follow Christianity if it were not for the minority that believed this.

 

[Van]

Hi Spoonbill, yes I agree. In Job 38, God makes it clear we (mankind) were not present at creation, and therefore humility should result in offering our various views simply as possibilities rather than being dogmatic about origins. God did it, but the Bible does not provide sufficient information to establish a conclusion as to how God did it.

May God Bless

 

[drich0150]

Hi Spoonbill, yes I agree. In Job 38, God makes it clear we (mankind) were not present at creation, and therefore humility should result in offering our various views simply as possibilities rather than being dogmatic about origins. God did it, but the Bible does not provide sufficient information to establish a conclusion as to how God did it.

May God Bless

I agree with Van/Job 38 it is rather presumptuous to think we have it all figured out when at best all either side can do is guess. To represent that best guess as anything other than a guess is a bit foolish. (For either side)

 

[ephraimanesti]

It is unfortunate for Christians that some Christians believe this. I think more people would be inclinded to follow Christianity if it were not for the minority that believed this.

MY BROTHER,

If nit-picking about unimportant and irrelevant details such as this would keep a person from believing in, accepting, and surrendering to their Lord, then perhaps it is NOT "unfortunate for Christians that some Christians believe this." Perhaps it is part of the "weeding out" process to eliminate poseurs before they can contaminate the Kingdom.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Spoonbill]

MY BROTHER,

If nit-picking about unimportant and irrelevant details such as this would keep a person from believing in, accepting, and surrendering to their Lord, then perhaps it is NOT "unfortunate for Christians that some Christians believe this." Perhaps it is part of the "weeding out" process to eliminate poseurs before they can contaminate the Kingdom.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

You think that the origin of the universe as described in the bible is "unimportant". Ok. I'd like to know what IS important then.

The thing is, beleiving the world is actually 6000 years old makes Christians look dumb. If it was universally accepted by Christians that the world (and universe) is actually as old as it has been scientifically proven to be, then I think Christianity would appeal to more people.

 

[Adoniram]

???? Help me to understand...God and Job are having a conversation, God asks Job specifically, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" And somehow the question goes from being about Job to being about all mankind? That's curious.

Not that I think that men were around to witness the creation events...God clearly puts the creation of man at the end of the creation week, and then He rested. And I don't really see how God could have been any clearer on how he did it..."God said 'Let there be...,'" and it happened. I, for one, can not and will not take anything away from God's power to do exactly what He said he did.

I happen to be one of those who believe that God said what he meant, and meant what he said. I do not feel the need to "rationalize" what God was talking about to make it reconcile with current scientific thought on the matter. For one thing, scientific thought changes on a daily basis, and secondly, it's mostly a matter of how one interprets the evidence, and that is mostly dependent upon one's worldview. There is substantial scientific evidence suggesting a young earth as well.

Further, I do think that the perception of the creation events held during Jesus' time was the literal one described in Genesis, yet Jesus did not attempt to "correct" their perceptions regarding it, as he did with other perceptions they held regarding the interpretations of OT scripture. As a matter of fact, his references to those events reinforce the way they are described in Genesis. And I do believe that Jesus would know how it all went down.

If some of you want to put your faith in what science has to say about the matter, that's okay...I will be content to continue to place my faith in what God had to say about it.

 

[Adoniram]

The thing is, beleiving the world is actually 6000 years old makes Christians look dumb.

Do you think it is more important to please the world, or to please God?

1 Cor. 3
18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; 20 and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

Col 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

 

[ephraimanesti]

You think that the origin of the universe as described in the bible is "unimportant". Ok. I'd like to know what IS important then.

The origin of the universe as described in the Bible is--God made it. How He did it or how long it took is irrelevant and does not fall within the scope of Scriptural purpose given that it is a) irrelevant to the purpose of Scripture which is a delineation of God's Plan of Salvation and history of carrying that Plan to fruition; and b) we would never be able to understand the explanation anyway were it given.

The thing is, believing believing the world is actually 6000 years old makes Christians look dumb. If it was universally accepted by Christians that the world (and universe) is actually as old as it has been scientifically proven to be, then I think Christianity would appeal to more people.

Christianity has no need to "appeal to more people." Those who arrive at Christianity are led there by the Holy Spirit, not because they are impressed by doctrines, beliefs, or practices.

LOOKING DUMB TO THE WORLD IS A GOOD THING!--It shows that Christianity is indeed God's revealed Truth, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. . . . God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before Him." (I Corinthians 1:18;27-29)

A Christian's value system is different from that of those in darkness, thus a Christian would take your critique as a complement and a source of reassurance. Thank you!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[98cwitr]

Hi Guys, its me again

I have a question I was hoping some of you could help answer. I have heard / seen / read that there are a lot of Christians (generally Fundamentalist Christians) that believe the world is approx 6000 years old.

Now, I have never met a Christian that actually believes this. Almost every single Christian I have met actually believes in the Big Bang theory (albeit a Big Bang created by God, which is a perfectly acceptable theory as any).

Is it true that some FCs believe this? because I have never met a Christian who does. Is this just another generalist theory athiests use to make Christians look stupid? Because I am starting to believe that Christians don't believe this theory at all.

Thank you.

my old roommate still believes in 6000 year old Earth...even has videos of some preacher in Florida "proving" the issue and saying that carbon dating is a complete fallacy. I'm not really buying it though. I'm not going to try and convince him otherwise...because I have tried in vain to do so in the past

 

[Spoonbill]

???? Help me to understand...God and Job are having a conversation, God asks Job specifically, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?" And somehow the question goes from being about Job to being about all mankind? That's curious.

Not that I think that men were around to witness the creation events...God clearly puts the creation of man at the end of the creation week, and then He rested. And I don't really see how God could have been any clearer on how he did it..."God said 'Let there be...,'" and it happened. I, for one, can not and will not take anything away from God's power to do exactly what He said he did.

I happen to be one of those who believe that God said what he meant, and meant what he said. I do not feel the need to "rationalize" what God was talking about to make it reconcile with current scientific thought on the matter. For one thing, scientific thought changes on a daily basis, and secondly, it's mostly a matter of how one interprets the evidence, and that is mostly dependent upon one's worldview. There is substantial scientific evidence suggesting a young earth as well.

Further, I do think that the perception of the creation events held during Jesus' time was the literal one described in Genesis, yet Jesus did not attempt to "correct" their perceptions regarding it, as he did with other perceptions they held regarding the interpretations of OT scripture. As a matter of fact, his references to those events reinforce the way they are described in Genesis. And I do believe that Jesus would know how it all went down.

If some of you want to put your faith in what science has to say about the matter, that's okay...I will be content to continue to place my faith in what God had to say about it.

Two words my friend.

Carbon Dating.

I seriously doubt that God "interferes" with the results from this.

Also, if the world was 6,000 years old, why are we capable of seeing galaxies millions of light years away? Or does God interfere with this evidence too? Was Einstein wrong?

What about Dinosaurs? Or did God actively place these bones in the ground to test us?

To assume that God would be trying to keep this truth from us actively is as absurd as the concept of a young earth is.

I would love to see your "scientific evidence" of a young earth. Please, I really would.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I would love to see your "scientific evidence" of a young earth. Please, I really would.

And so if such evidence was presented, what effect, if any, would that evidence have on your worshipping creation rather than the Creator?

ABBA'S fool,
ephraim

 

[98cwitr]

Spoonbill,

Carbon dating is only good up to roughly 50,000 years.

Sources:

Carbon 14, Radiometric Dating, Unfossilized Dinosaur Bones, not millions of years old

MIT also published an article for Libby, the "inventor" of Carbon-14 dating and says (about mid-article) that Carbon-14 dating is only good up to 50,000 years. I think I can trust MIT's claim. haha

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/libby.html

another "only 50,000 years" link

http://www.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm

with that being said, artifacts are tested and found to be MORE THAN 6000 years old...both "assumptions" thus being false.

The Potassium-argon method is used to age things from 60k to 100k+ years old...google it.

also

Long-Lived Radioactive Isotope Pairs - All of the isotopes listed above except Carbon 14 have half-lives > 1 billion years. Used to date very old materials (meteorites, igneous intrusives, lunar samples, oldest rocks on Earth).
Fission-Track Dating - Uranium 238 spontaneously decays by fission. Particles from the nucleus make tracks in rock minerals which can be counted and tied to a number of years. This dating method has the largest useful age range of any radiometric method (40,000 to 1 million years).
Radiocarbon Dating - Nitrogen 14 is converted to Carbon 14 in the atmosphere through neutron bombardment (involves the loss of a proton). Carbon 14 is radioactive and spontaneously decays back to Nitrogen 14 through beta decay. Ratio of Carbon 14 to Carbon 12 remains constant until the organism dies. Useful for dating materials less than 70,000 years old. Correction factors must be applied to account for variations in the amount of Carbon 12 and 14 in the atmosphere over time. Good match with tree ring dating methods (up to 14,000 years old).

All that said I conclude with this

"Today's accepted age of Earth of 4.54 billion years was determined by C.C. Patterson using uranium-lead isotope dating (specifically lead-lead dating) on several meteorites including the Canyon Diablo meteorite and published in 1956.[30]"

^ Patterson, Claire (1956). "Age of meteorites and the earth". Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 10 (4): 230–237. doi:10.1016/0016-7037(56)90036-9. Bibcode: 1956GeCoA..10..230P. Retrieved 2009-07-07.

Statistics for several meteorites that have undergone isochron dating are as follows:[33]
1) St. Severin (ordinary chondrite) a. Pb-Pb isochron - 4.543 +/- 0.019 GY b. Sm-Nd isochron - 4.55 +/- 0.33 GY c. Rb-Sr isochron - 4.51 +/- 0.15 GY d. Re-Os isochron - 4.68 +/- 0.15 GY
2) Juvinas (basaltic achondrite) a. Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.556 +/- 0.012 GY b. Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.540 +/- 0.001 GY c. Sm-Nd isochron ..... 4.56 +/- 0.08 GY d. Rb-Sr isochron ..... 4.50 +/- 0.07 GY
3) Allende (carbonaceous chondrite) a. Pb-Pb isochron ..... 4.553 +/- 0.004 GY b. Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.52 +/- 0.02 GY c. Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.55 +/- 0.03 GY d. Ar-Ar age spectrum ..... 4.56 +/- 0.05 GY

 

[Adoniram]

Two words my friend.

Carbon Dating.

I seriously doubt that God "interferes" with the results from this.

Carbon dating, huh. I wonder if you realize that in the process of carbon dating, scientists make assumptions at the start, which cannot be known or proven scientifically, and which render the whole process unreliable at best, a total sham at the worst.

Also, if the world was 6,000 years old, why are we capable of seeing galaxies millions of light years away? Or does God interfere with this evidence too? Was Einstein wrong?

I imagine that we see light from galaxies millions of light years away because it is totally within the realm of God's ability to create them with the light already reaching us.

What about Dinosaurs? Or did God actively place these bones in the ground to test us?

The bones of dinosaurs are in the ground because that is where the Flood deposited them when it receded.

To assume that God would be trying to keep this truth from us actively is as absurd as the concept of a young earth is.

I make no assumptions that God is trying to keep anything from us. He gave us a mind and intelligence, told us to use them in hopes that what we learned would help us to recognize His existence. Sadly, it doesn't help that a Godless worldview is so pervasive in a scientific community which would have us believe that the universe we see today came about naturally, and that God is nowhere to be found in it or it's creation. Suffice to say, the Bible is admittedly not a scientific textbook, and many questions arise, the direct answers for which cannot be found in it; yet, it is not in error.

The whole of our faith in God and His Word hinges on our being able to believe what is written in the Scriptures. If, for instance, death has been a part of the world for many millennia, as some scientists would have us believe that the fossil record indicates, then the Bible is in error when it says death entered the world with the sin of Adam. If the Bible is wrong about something as fundamental as that, can we trust anything that is in it? I must therefore believe the Bible and reason that scientists that hold to the naturalistic worldview are in error regarding their dating methods. Thankfully, God has raised up quite a number of scientists as accomplished and respected as any in their fields who do believe, and whose research yield results not in disagreement with the Bible.

I would love to see your "scientific evidence" of a young earth. Please, I really would.

I'm sorry, but this is not the place to hold such "debates," thus the brevity of my comments. Besides, if I were to post some of the evidence, your entire effort would be to simply disqualify it rather than seriously consider it, and you wouldn't gain anything. I would suggest instead that if you have an interest, you do the research yourself...like I did. You will find it much more rewarding.

 

[zaksmummy]

I believe that the earth is 6000ish years old and that God made it in six days for this reason - God always tells the truth, he never lies, he is trustworthy. Genesis says God created the world in six days, I believe him - he was there, we were not.

 

[98cwitr]

interesting read

How to Become a Christian

 

[Spoonbill]

I believe that the earth is 6000ish years old and that God made it in six days for this reason - God always tells the truth, he never lies, he is trustworthy. Genesis says God created the world in six days, I believe him - he was there, we were not.

Really? You are like 35 years old, how could you possibly believe this??!?!?

No offence, but I can't believe that people still actually believe this. It was mentioned earlier that Carbon dating is acurate at least to 50,000 years. Do you just disregard this proof?

You can still be a Christian and believe in the Big Bang and Evolution you know...