A question about Catholocism.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Where can I go for proof that Catholocism comes directly from Peter? I see it claimed alot but havent seen any proof.

See:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562877-4/#post57660555

But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Acts 8:20aps

I'll bet that post contained some important stuff.

Ya think?

 

[asiyreh]

Lord please protect me while I preform this task, I do not attempt to disobey your commands but I do this only so you may be glorified. In Jesus name I pray.

Apologies for the prayer, but I need to do something that is forbidden for just a moment, so I can show you something.

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Mat 16 - 13:18

This is how the RCC claims it's authority. The catholic church is build upon the stipulation that Peter is the rock and they are his predecessors

Now I'm going to change this text for just a second... so I can show you something then we'll put it all back as it is and have another look.

Ok

Jesus asks who is it you say that I am.
Simon Barjona says; you are the Christ the son of the living God.
and Jesus replies; Well done, on this rock i will build my church.

Faith...

Do you see?

Faith that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. This is your rock, my rock, the rock of Christ's church.

Christ now gives Peter his new heavenly name as his reward because of his faith, the same type heavenly name each of you will receive if you keep this faith.

Forget about the succession of Peter from Rome. I think the first Bishop of Rome was a guy named Lynos if memory serves correctly. But anyway it doesn't matter.

Now let's put the verse back together and have another look.

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Mat 16: 13-18

 

[James4_14]

Lord please protect me while I preform this task, I do not attempt to disobey your commands but I do this only so you may be glorified. In Jesus name I pray.
Apologies for the prayer, but I need to do something that is forbidden for just a moment, so I can show you something.

I am humbled.....BUT! If you ever apologize for a prayer again I will pray diarrhea on you!

 

[James4_14]

Ray-bans please.

What color is the print in your Bible? Surely you wouldn't associate the text of scripture with these would you?

I don't deal in sunglasses over $5.00 a pair. The economy ya know. So I will send you two pair.

God chose the Words. Man chose the color.

 

[Yarddog]

I don't deal in sunglasses over $5.00 a pair. The economy ya know. So I will send you two pair.

Extra large for my fat head please.

God chose the Words. Man chose the color.

 

[truthHurts77]

Where can I go for proof that Catholocism comes directly from Peter? I see it claimed alot but havent seen any proof.

well, #1

u can't prove it didn't

although many anti catholic bigots will say that... well, they say many things that are not true about the RCC. they even know some of it is untrue... but doesn't stop them..

supposedly the Inquisition killed millioins.

it killed 2-3000... and it was the Kings and Queens who ruled that heretics tshould be executed... NOT the Church

the Church has always taught that ppl should be free to believe as they choose... and of course, the Church has always condemned murder...

but it stands to reason that the devil would have a particular hatred of the Catholic Church.,.. since that is the Church CHrist established...

 

[asiyreh]

Whao!

 

[SolomonVII]

[...


[...

 

[SolomonVII]

Albigensian Crusade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he Albigensian Crusade or Cathar Crusade (1209–1255) was a 45-year military campaign initiated by the Catholic Church to eliminate Catharism in Languedoc. The Crusade was prosecuted primarily by the French crown and promptly took on a political flavour, resulting in not only a significant reduction in the number of practicing Cathars but also a realignment of Occitania, bringing it into the sphere of the French crown and diminishing the distinct regional culture and high level of Aragonese influence.
When Innocent III's diplomatic attempts to roll back Catharism[1] met with little success and after the murder of the papal legate, Pierre de Castelnau, Innocent III declared a crusade against Languedoc, offering the lands of the Cathar "heretics" to any French nobleman willing to take up arms. The violence led to France's acquisition of lands with closer linguistic, cultural, and political ties to Catalonia (see Occitan). The pope declared that all Albigenses "should be imprisoned and their property confiscated". (Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 1, 268)
The Albigensian Crusade also had a role in the creation and institutionalization of both the Dominican Order and the Medieval Inquisition.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

Albigensian Crusade (1208-49) 1,000,000 [make link]
The traditional death toll given for the war against the Cathars is one million, which is repeated in these:
John M. Robertson, A Short History of Christianity, London: Watts, 1902, p.254 ("It has been reckoned that a million of all ages and both sexes were slain.")
Christopher Brookmyre, Not the End of the World (New York: Grove Press, 1998) p.39
Max Dimont, Jews, God, and History, (New York: Penguin, 1994) p.225: 1,000,000 Frenchmen suspected of being Albigensians slain
Dizerega Gus, Pagans & Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience (St. Paul, MN: Llewellyn, 2001) p.195
Helen Ellerbe, The Dark Side of Christian History (Orlando, FL: Morningstar & Lark, 1995) p.74
Michael Newton, Holy Homicide (Port Townsend, WA: Loompanics Unlimited, 1998

For Catholics to come here and cry about mistreatmentand play the victim card as the underdogs of history is rather absurd. such emotional blackmail is pathetic enough when played by victims of history with credible claims. As for Catholics, it has been a long time since they were the persecuted church, long before the church was differentiated into the denominations that exist now actually.

 

[asiyreh]

Here's just a small tiny taste of papal murder and oppression.

The courage and perseverance of the Valdense throughout their persecutions is a tale beyond the scope of this short article. The severest campaigns against them filled the 13th through the 17th centuries, with short periods of respite now and then. To condense their sufferings into one inadequate paragraph, the nouns deceit, trickery, broken promises, flattery, threats, robbery, pillage, slow tortures, destruction, slaughter, exile might serve for a start.

The Roman Catholic persecutors ripped limbs from live victims, dashed the heads of children against the rocks, marched fathers to their deaths with the heads of their sons around their necks; parents watched their children violated and murdered. Other tortures were too vile to describe. Women and children were thrown off high peaks to be dashed to pieces. Valdese taking refuge in caves were suffocated by fires lit at the cave mouths. Soldiers took refuge in Valdese homes, only to rise up and slaughter their hosts upon the given signal.

And if you're in any doubt about who had the power.

Henry IV, feeling keenly the threat of his own power, called together the bishops of the Holy Roman Empire and compelled them to depose Gregory as pope. The pope then exercised his power and absolved all of Henry’s subjects from allegiance to him. Since the pope had great power over the people, Henry was left without a kingdom. In order to be forgiven by the pope and reinstated as king, Henry was forced to lay aside his royal garments and make a journey over the Alps in the dead of winter and approach the pope in his palace at Canossa. After being forced to stand outside the castle for three days, with his bare feet in the snow, he was admitted into the pope’s presence on bended knees.

 

[James4_14]

Here's just a small tiny taste of papal murder and oppression.

The courage and perseverance of the Valdense throughout their persecutions is a tale beyond the scope of this short article. The severest campaigns against them filled the 13th through the 17th centuries, with short periods of respite now and then. To condense their sufferings into one inadequate paragraph, the nouns deceit, trickery, broken promises, flattery, threats, robbery, pillage, slow tortures, destruction, slaughter, exile might serve for a start.

The Roman Catholic persecutors ripped limbs from live victims, dashed the heads of children against the rocks, marched fathers to their deaths with the heads of their sons around their necks; parents watched their children violated and murdered. Other tortures were too vile to describe. Women and children were thrown off high peaks to be dashed to pieces. Valdese taking refuge in caves were suffocated by fires lit at the cave mouths. Soldiers took refuge in Valdese homes, only to rise up and slaughter their hosts upon the given signal.

And if you're in any doubt about who had the power.

Henry IV, feeling keenly the threat of his own power, called together the bishops of the Holy Roman Empire and compelled them to depose Gregory as pope. The pope then exercised his power and absolved all of Henry’s subjects from allegiance to him. Since the pope had great power over the people, Henry was left without a kingdom. In order to be forgiven by the pope and reinstated as king, Henry was forced to lay aside his royal garments and make a journey over the Alps in the dead of winter and approach the pope in his palace at Canossa. After being forced to stand outside the castle for three days, with his bare feet in the snow, he was admitted into the pope’s presence on bended knees.

I have an idea many of the like of this pope were deemed...SAINTS!

 

[Rick Otto]

Here's just a small tiny taste of papal murder and oppression.

The courage and perseverance of the Valdense throughout their persecutions is a tale beyond the scope of this short article. The severest campaigns against them filled the 13th through the 17th centuries, with short periods of respite now and then. To condense their sufferings into one inadequate paragraph, the nouns deceit, trickery, broken promises, flattery, threats, robbery, pillage, slow tortures, destruction, slaughter, exile might serve for a start.

The Roman Catholic persecutors ripped limbs from live victims, dashed the heads of children against the rocks, marched fathers to their deaths with the heads of their sons around their necks; parents watched their children violated and murdered. Other tortures were too vile to describe. Women and children were thrown off high peaks to be dashed to pieces. Valdese taking refuge in caves were suffocated by fires lit at the cave mouths. Soldiers took refuge in Valdese homes, only to rise up and slaughter their hosts upon the given signal.

Maybe not everyone who calls themselves Catholic realy is or even realy understands Catholicism.

 

[James4_14]

Maybe not everyone who calls themselves Catholic realy is or even realy understands Catholicism.

Good people have been lied to and deceived at every turn. Bondage of man to man is what it is.
What bothers me the most is that Mary is always depicted as living and our Lord is depicted as an infant or dead. Their Cross has Him there. It is as empty as His tomb for:
***Matt 28:6....he is risen, as he said.....
Without the resurrection the cross would be meaningless.
***Rev 1:17-18
17....Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (the grave) and of death.

 

[Athanasias]

Where can I go for proof that Catholocism comes directly from Peter? I see it claimed alot but havent seen any proof.

and your asking it here LOL......try Rome.

No Seriously there are 3 historical sources that show this lineage.

1) Secular source : Merriam Websters Collegiate encyclopedia
2) Protestant source: Oxford dictionary of Popes
3). Catholic source : Encyclopedia of Catholic history

good luck!

 

[GenetoJean]

Thanx for the responses that answered my question. Again I am sorry this turned out to be an excuse for people to Catholic bash or to Protestant bash. I really wish people would take the bashing to other threads for that.

I see bottom line it kind of comes down to faith.

 

[GenetoJean]

and your asking it here LOL......try Rome.

No Seriously there are 3 historical sources that show this lineage.

1) Secular source : Merriam Websters Collegiate encyclopedia
2) Protestant source: Oxford dictionary of Popes
3). Catholic source : Encyclopedia of Catholic history

good luck!

Here is the only place I have to ask. I dont have the resources to pack up and go to Rome to ask them.

 

[Athanasias]

Here is the only place I have to ask. I dont have the resources to pack up and go to Rome to ask them.

then check out those 3 sources I recommended they are loaded with historical evidence.

 

[GenetoJean]

That I will.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have an idea, how about we hold grudges based on things in the past, rather than working in the present, as faithful Christians, for a better tomorrow. Let's totally ignore what Jesus said concerning forgiving our brothers and sisters and loving one another as He loved us and just do things our own way.

They will know we are Christians by our obstinate pigheadedness.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[James4_14]

I have an idea, how about we hold grudges based on things in the past, rather than working in the present, as faithful Christians, for a better tomorrow. Let's totally ignore what Jesus said concerning forgiving our brothers and sisters and loving one another as He loved us and just do things our own way.

They will know we are Christians by our obstinate pigheadedness.

-CryptoLutheran

Brother:
A grudge is the heaviest burden one can bear. This is not about forgiving nor grudges. This is about Truth and idolatry no matter where the chips may fall. This is not a personal thing:

***Eph 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
***Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.


If I were about to step off the edge....I certainly would hope someone would alert me. God does. Take Him at His Word.

Ecumenism hails back to Babel.