A public apology

[Uphill Battle]

I was just reading a thread about why the Mariology forumn was created.

In there, were some links to some other threads.

Now, I won't say much about the perceived insults aimed at protestants in the threads that were linked, but I did notice a spirit of hurt among the OBOB'ers that were posting there.

I debate theology in many of the subforums, but I do frequent Mariology as well. I think the perception is that because I argue against, and do not believe the Marian Dogmas, is that I hate the Mother of our Lord. This is very far from the truth!

That however, does not excuse the fact that rightly or wrongly in my arguments, other brothers and sisters in Christ have been hurt.

So I'd like to offer my apologies for any perceived insults. I cannot accept what is proposed about Mary by the Catholic church. I cannot stand by and let what I believe to be falsehood to pass by, any more than the faithful Catholics can do so, but I have no desire to stab at the heart of the people I call brother and sister on the matter.

I just do not, and cannot trust the Catholic church in the matter.

Forgive if any of my words have hurt you (and forgive me for when, inevitably, I do again.)

 

[Amylisa]

I give you a lot of credit. Not many people apologize for anything like this!

Your words are a comfort. It's sometimes pretty discouraging to come to CF because of all the disagreement. Disagreements shouldn't have to cause division or hurt amongst believers in Christ.

Thanks very much!

 

[Uphill Battle]

I give you a lot of credit. Not many people apologize for anything like this!

Your words are a comfort. It's sometimes pretty discouraging to come to CF because of all the disagreement. Disagreements shouldn't have to cause division or hurt amongst believers in Christ.

Thanks very much!

then they have had the desired effect.

If you are chatting with any who are avoiding Mariology for just this reason, please tell them about it. I don't want them to think we hate them, it just isn't true.

 

[Amylisa]

I don't know of any, but I will certainly mention this if I meet up with any.

It's not just the Mariology forum. It's in all the Christian sections that I have visited here.

To be fair, I've read some pretty mean spirited posts by Catholics towards Protestants too.
I think we're very possibly getting close to the coming of Christ. And it troubles me that so many of His people are embroiled in arguing with each other instead of reaching out to people who still need to meet Him. I know I spend too much time online in general!

Sigh....we gotta get our stuff together here.

 

[Uphill Battle]

these kinds of threads never get much press.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I was just reading a thread about why the Mariology forumn was created.

In there, were some links to some other threads.

Now, I won't say much about the perceived insults aimed at protestants in the threads that were linked, but I did notice a spirit of hurt among the OBOB'ers that were posting there.

I debate theology in many of the subforums, but I do frequent Mariology as well. I think the perception is that because I argue against, and do not believe the Marian Dogmas, is that I hate the Mother of our Lord. This is very far from the truth!

That however, does not excuse the fact that rightly or wrongly in my arguments, other brothers and sisters in Christ have been hurt.

So I'd like to offer my apologies for any perceived insults. I cannot accept what is proposed about Mary by the Catholic church. I cannot stand by and let what I believe to be falsehood to pass by, any more than the faithful Catholics can do so, but I have no desire to stab at the heart of the people I call brother and sister on the matter.

I just do not, and cannot trust the Catholic church in the matter.

Forgive if any of my words have hurt you (and forgive me for when, inevitably, I do again.)

I accept your apology although I wasn't offended as much as frustrated.

But I'm probably not always very polite when I am trying to state the case for Catholicism. So for the times when I lacked Christian charity, I apologize.

 

[Amylisa]

these kinds of threads never get much press.

Don't worry, they do in heaven I'll bet!

As a mom, I think now I can understand a little how much it must please God when His children forgive and try to be kind to each other. I know it drives me absolutely bats sometimes when my kids are arguing. Some days it seems they argue over pretty much everything.

So yeah, I think this kind of thread gives Him a smile.

 

[Rowan]

these kinds of threads never get much press.

LOL.

Peace with you Uphill!

 

[Uphill Battle]

Haven't had many posters in here, but to those who sent messages privately, I thank you very much.

 

[Uphill Battle]

and on another note, I call on my protestant brothers and sisters to chime in, and also try and restore some goodwill between the "camps."

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Uphill Battle,

I was very glad when you came back after your little hiatus from CF. I've always felt that you were trying to be respectful even when vehemently disagreeing.

And I noticed that when you came back, you came back in full armor. Smart!

Mary

 

[Uphill Battle]

Uphill Battle,

I was very glad when you came back after your little hiatus from CF. I've always felt that you were trying to be respectful even when vehemently disagreeing.

And I noticed that when you came back, you came back in full armor. Smart!

Mary

tried, and miserably failed so often!

thanks though.

 

[Lisa0315]

I am Baptist, and I commend you for trying to mend fences. I also do not agree with the doctrine on Mary, but I have a better understanding of why Catholics believe it to be so. It is a good thing to talk if we can do so without causing harm.

Lisa

 

[Amylisa]

Lisa,

 

[E.C.]

I am Baptist, and I commend you for trying to mend fences. I also do not agree with the doctrine on Mary, but I have a better understanding of why Catholics believe it to be so. It is a good thing to talk if we can do so without causing harm.

Lisa

The only problem is that some "non-Mary veneration" folks are too steeped in their own traditions to see the name "Mary" without any word like "demon" next to it.

Great example is me and Protestants. I do not agree with many things about the various Protestant faiths. However, if I understand why these folks believe this than I won't be filled with so much negativity.

Same principal works with a lot of things. For those who don't like the idea of venerating the Theotokos, I personally have no real problems so long as I don't see something like "ooooh! You treat Mary with respect! You's goings to hells for that ones!"

That stuff is soooo annoying.

 

[Lisa0315]

The only problem is that some "non-Mary veneration" folks are too steeped in their own traditions to see the name "Mary" without any word like "demon" next to it.

Great example is me and Protestants. I do not agree with many things about the various Protestant faiths. However, if I understand why these folks believe this than I won't be filled with so much negativity.

Same principal works with a lot of things. For those who don't like the idea of venerating the Theotokos, I personally have no real problems so long as I don't see something like "ooooh! You treat Mary with respect! You's goings to hells for that ones!"

That stuff is soooo annoying.

I respectfully disagree! I know of no one who associates Mary with anything evil. What is found to be evil is raising Mary up to be equal to Christ. There are some who do this and it is just plain wrong. I believe the Co-Redemptress doctrine is heresy.

From the Baptist perspective, it is about making Jesus first and foremost to the exclusion of all others. Mary is a woman (from our pov), nothing more, nothing less. She was blessed and honored by God with service to Him, but then so are many of us. Her blessing and honor was great but so was her sorrow and pain. Yet, she is not above other human beings, just a powerful example for us to follow as women, wives, and mothers.

Again, no disrespect intended to the mother of our Lord. I am just attempting to show the pov of the Baptist.

Lisa

 

[Uphill Battle]

The only problem is that some "non-Mary veneration" folks are too steeped in their own traditions to see the name "Mary" without any word like "demon" next to it.

Great example is me and Protestants. I do not agree with many things about the various Protestant faiths. However, if I understand why these folks believe this than I won't be filled with so much negativity.

Same principal works with a lot of things. For those who don't like the idea of venerating the Theotokos, I personally have no real problems so long as I don't see something like "ooooh! You treat Mary with respect! You's goings to hells for that ones!"

That stuff is soooo annoying.

you mean your're NOT going to hell for it? aw, man! I think I need to cancel my subscription to Chick publications.

I agree that there are Protestants who say stuff like this.

Equally, I see Catholics who state without a doubt that if you aren't crossing yourself in a Catholic parish come sunday morning, your on your way to barbeque land.

It needs to stop.

I respectfully disagree! I know of no one who associates Mary with anything evil. What is found to be evil is raising Mary up to be equal to Christ. There are some who do this and it is just plain wrong. I believe the Co-Redemptress doctrine is heresy.

Whether we believe veneration of Mary to be right or wrong, they truly do not believe they are doing this. And you just need to seach long enough on this forum alone, you will find some pretty vile suggestions regarding Mary. (Such as apostasy, etc...)

From the Baptist perspective, it is about making Jesus first and foremost to the exclusion of all others. Mary is a woman (from our pov), nothing more, nothing less. She was blessed and honored by God with service to Him, but then so are many of us. Her blessing and honor was great but so was her sorrow and pain. Yet, she is not above other human beings, just a powerful example for us to follow as women, wives, and mothers.

Just a woman, yes. But when you say blessed an honoured by God, scripture DOES say she will always be called Blessed, by every generation. Truly she had to be the most blessed woman in all existance.... she mothered the Christ!

Again, no disrespect intended to the mother of our Lord. I am just attempting to show the pov of the Baptist.

Lisa

An honest and respectful sharing of POV's should never be considered disrespectful.

 

[Uphill Battle]

what, only one other?

how sad.

 

[Lisa0315]

what, only one other?

how sad.

One other what?

Lisa

 

[E.C.]

you mean your're NOT going to hell for it? aw, man! I think I need to cancel my subscription to Chick publications.

I agree that there are Protestants who say stuff like this.

Equally, I see Catholics who state without a doubt that if you aren't crossing yourself in a Catholic parish come sunday morning, your on your way to barbeque land.

It needs to stop.

I think the whole "you do not follow X(my) Tradition. Thou hast no chance of going to heaven whatsoever" needs to stop. Anything can fall under that be it Real Presence in the Eucharist or not having something like grits at a BBQ

I respectfully disagree! I know of no one who associates Mary with anything evil. What is found to be evil is raising Mary up to be equal to Christ. There are some who do this and it is just plain wrong. I believe the Co-Redemptress doctrine is heresy.

From the Baptist perspective, it is about making Jesus first and foremost to the exclusion of all others. Mary is a woman (from our pov), nothing more, nothing less. She was blessed and honored by God with service to Him, but then so are many of us. Her blessing and honor was great but so was her sorrow and pain. Yet, she is not above other human beings, just a powerful example for us to follow as women, wives, and mothers.

Again, no disrespect intended to the mother of our Lord. I am just attempting to show the pov of the Baptist.

Lisa

Co-redemtrix? That's Rome speak, not Orthodox speak.

Yes, the Theotokos is just a woman. However, she should be honored for what she helped bring into the world.

In fact, in all Orthodox icons of the Theotokos, she is never alone; Christ is always in the icon either as a baby, or adult.