A Protestant attending a Catholic service.

[LynneClomina]

come on surely you would have more respect about you then that. I wouldnt come into your church and do something I wasnt supposed to knowing that I wasnt supposed to do it.

well, that would depend if i want to be a respecter of persons rather than a respecter of God.... if God wants me to remember Him through communion, and i disobey Him so that i dont irk a church, then that is sin. i would rather get glares and stares and the boot out the door than to face God in the last day and have to answer for yet one more way that i disobeyed Him.

now would that be an easy thing for me to do? heck no. i face the same issue when it comes to dancing in church quite frequently.... when i go to a somewhat more conservative church and feel to dance before the Lord, will i do it? if it is God calling me to it, i sure better! if, however, i do it to prove some stupid point and to make people mad rather than our of a matter of conscience, that is different; it would be as much an offence to God as it would be to the people in the church.

same goes with communion. if i dont feel particularly led to, i wont, i'm not gonna do it just to drive home some point; if, however, i feel let to take communion, and i know that to disobey that would be going against my conscience and thus sin, it is my duty to obey God before man, even if i get persecuted for it in the end.

and who is allowed, biblically, to tell me to go against my conscience, when the Word of God says that if i go against my concience, it is sin? i would not want to be that person who told me to sin (by going against my conscience) when they come face to face with Christ!!!!!

 

[LynneClomina]

First, the Catholic Church asks non-Catholics not to partake in her Communion because non-Catholics disagree with certain Church teachings, and thus, are not in Communion with the Catholic Church.

i'm not personally concerned about being in communion with the Catholic church - i'm more concerned with being in communion with Christ.

Also, and more importantly, the Church believes that the Host (wafer) becomes the literal Body and Blood of Christ, and that to partake of it while in a state of mortal sin (if you are) is to potentially eat and drink judgment upon one's self.

i dont believe it is the literal body and blood of Christ, and if i am in sin is between me and God, not the church, AND if i sin in taking the wafer, then i will be judged - the Church doesnt need to look out for me in that area (since i am not a Catholic and don't subcribe to these things).

Of course, there is no way for the priest to refuse you Communion if he doesn't know you. If you go to receive the Eucharist, he must assume (without prior knowledge of you) that you are a Catholic and are not in a state of mortal sin. But if he does know that you are either not a Catholic or are in a state of unrepentant mortal sin, he sometimes has the right to refuse you Communion. As stated earlier, he would do this in order to protect your soul from judgment, and not out of spite. Does that make sense?

i can understand the reasoning, yes. but that isnt reason enough to disobey God. if the priest said to me, sorry i will not give you the wafer, then i wont in turn ask him to go against his conscience. but i believe that if God wants me to take communion, then there will be no problem - He will smooth the way.

 

[bigsierra]

LynneClomina,

How did you come to the Reformed faith, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[tqpix]

I'm a Catholic, but I went to a Protestant Church for two/three years. It's a little bit different from what I'm used to, but there's not much difference.

 

[LynneClomina]

i'm not in a denominationally "reformed" church, but my pastor believes in calvinism (teaches predestination but doesnt push it on everybody) and definately teaches covanent theology. so i have been taugh those things and believe them, and i am highly influence by the writings of John Calvin, RC Sproul, Johnathan Edwards, and various odd things i have read. oh, and some confession or other, i'm not sure which one . i think we would doctrinally be similar to reformed baptists, but we are non-denominational, and "apostolic" as well - the five-fold ministry/ priesthood of all believers stuff.

eh, what do you mean, i dont sound very predictable? is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

 

[KennySe]

question:

someone said that Christ was the great high priest that made the offering of Himself on the cross - thus, offerer and offering.

the "host", the offering, is consedered by the RC to be Christ Himself... do they consider the same thing about the offerer? the preist? is he claiming to take the place of Christ????

truly ignorant on this point. i want to ask this here becuase i dont want to be swamped in OBOB. thnx.

Hi.
I recommend you read the entirety of the Book of Hebrews.

and afterward, also a portion of the Catholic Mass, called "Eucharistic Prayer".
http://www.prayerbook.com/HolyMass/CurrentMass/prayeuch.htm

These are the very words prayed aloud by the priest during Catholic Mass.

 

[Gabriel]

MOD hat on

I see alot of people who are NOT of the Reformed pursuasion chiming in here. Please be assured that you are more than welcome not to. As a matter of fact, you are bound by our rules not to. So stop. Consider this an unofficial warning. The next will be official.


MOD hat off

 

[LynneClomina]

Hi.
I recommend you read the entirety of the Book of Hebrews.

and afterward, also a portion of the Catholic Mass, called "Eucharistic Prayer".
http://www.prayerbook.com/HolyMass/CurrentMass/prayeuch.htm

These are the very words prayed aloud by the priest during Catholic Mass.

it's beautiful, soothingly familiar (i went to catholic school for 8 years and requisite masses), and theologically something i cannot ascribe to. Hebrews is my favorite book of the Bible (along with Romans).

what connection are you trying to make???

(or maybe you better not tell me, so you don't get in trouble! )

 

[Bob Moore]

well, if i went to mass (and i won't) i would take communion if i wanted to, if i could, becuase i dont believe it's up to the Catholic church to decide for me. i am not "under" canon law, becuase i am not Catholic.

do y'all think it's ok to do that?

No, it isn't all right because: "There be only two sacraments ordained by Christ our Lord in the Gospel; that is to say, Baptism and the Supper of the Lord: neither of which may be dispensed by any but by a minister of the Word lawfully ordained." (Westminster Confession XXVII:IV). Roman priests are ordained according to the laws of Rome and as such are not qualified to administer any sacrament whatever to a Protestant, nor should they be willing to do so.

isnt it up to Christ, and our convictions, as to what we do in that case?

No, because that shifts communion from an objective act of worship and obedience into the subjective realm of mysticism. We are quit of Rome for the most excellent of reasons as given in 2 Peter 2:20-22.

if i feel God wants me to take communion, i will, if i dont, i wont. if it is against my concience, it is sin.... do you agree?

There are many things that are according to conscience and conviction, but this is not one of them for the reasons given above.

 

[Cal]

MOD hat on

I see alot of people who are NOT of the Reformed pursuasion chiming in here. Please be assured that you are more than welcome not to. As a matter of fact, you are bound by our rules not to. So stop. Consider this an unofficial warning. The next will be official.


MOD hat off

Thank you, I was beginning to think the pope was going to chime in next!

 

[II Paradox II]

John Calvin 7 years before the incident:
"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight."

After the incident:
"Many people have accused me of such ferocious cruelty that (they allege) I would like to kill again the man I have destroyed. Not only am I indifferent to their comments, but I rejoice in the fact that they spit in my face."

"Whoever shall now contend that it is unjust to put heretics and blasphemers to death will knowingly and willingly incur their very guilt."

You do realize of course that Servetus was already under condemnation (he was to be executed) in Catholic Austria at the time? He was a well known heretic hunted by Catholics and protestants alike. Personally, I amglad that we don't do this anymore, but it was common practice at the time.

ken

 

[Knight]

Personal opinion here:
I don't think I could take communion in a Roman Catholic service because of what is being said about the elements. (ie: transubstantiation)

 

[Cal]

Personal opinion here:
I don't think I could take communion in a Roman Catholic service because of what is being said about the elements. (ie: transubstantiation)

Thousands of Christians spilled their blood and gave up their lives on exactly this point. They felt that transubstantiation was an attempt to bring works into salvation and was a complete distortion of the Word of God. They are referenced to in Foxes Book of Martyrs and are great heroes of the faith. They fueled the Reformation with great energy!

 

[bigsierra]

Thousands of Christians spilled their blood and gave up their lives on exactly this point. They felt that transubstantiation was an attempt to bring works into salvation and was a complete distortion of the Word of God. They are referenced to in Foxes Book of Martyrs and are great heroes of the faith. They fueled the Reformation with great energy!

Don't you think loss of life is stupid, either direction? Both sides of the issue has blood on there hands. It is a reprehensible blemish on the name of Christ, no matter what.

Atheist sites have timelines to show how stupid wars have been fought from both directions down through history, to discredit all of Christianity. They don't care if the stupid killing came from Catholics or Protestants.

 

[Knight]

Killing other people because believe differently is stupid and condemned by scripture. There is no question about that.

I hardly think Cal was advocating these kind of deaths. Merely honoring those who have fallen.

 

[bigsierra]

Well proving truth by how many has fallen is support of it wouldn't be accurate or we would have the Salem Witches saying they died for their faith. I'm sure they do somewhere.

 

[Knight]

It wasn't a proof.... It was an illustration.

 

[bigsierra]

You do realize of course that Servetus was already under condemnation (he was to be executed) in Catholic Austria at the time? He was a well known heretic hunted by Catholics and protestants alike. Personally, I amglad that we don't do this anymore, but it was common practice at the time.

ken

All the killing of the past has been sad. There are many examples of it going on in all groups.

Here is the link I referred to earlier.
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blchron_xian_index.htm

 

[II Paradox II]

All the killing of the past has been sad. There are many examples of it going on in all groups.

On that count, I agree with you. Christians have been far too willing to impose their will on other Christians and non-Christians and in the end it only reduces our credibility.

God has an amazing amount of mercy on us considering all of our schisms, heresies and hatreds of each other.

ken

 

[bigsierra]

It wasn't a proof.... It was an illustration.

Ok, prove or proof probably wasn't the word to pick. Pointing to any blood, but that of Christ, isn't applicable.