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I'm reading up more on his Curvature Cosmology at the moment and how his above mentioned mechanism works.Crawford said:In my static universe photons continuously lose energy by the curvature redshift interaction thus Olber's Paradox is easily explained. The age is unknown in that this would require a different model. Note that the static model is stable and indeed if it could be disturbed it would oscillate withe period of about the Hubble time.
We can now throw another formula into the mix the distance travelled by a photon emitted since the time of creation of the Universe.
....
In an infinitely old static Universe t₀ is infinitely large hence:
I didn't realise it was compulsory in this thread to critique David Crawford's paper.
Unlike Michael I am not prepared to lie through my teeth.....
and claim I understand his paper given my background is in Applied Mathematics with the emphasis on the theoretical aspects of Cosmology, rather than specifics such as the use of templates to create type1A supernovae light curves in their rest frames.
Since the paper concludes the existence of a static Universe it was more appropriate of me to discuss this aspect.
I hope David Crawford responds to your question regarding Olber's paradox because it will only add further to Michael's embarrassment if he confirms what he wrote about the paradox as being the real deal rather than some mainstream made up nonsense as Michael suggests.
The other point worth mentioning is Michael's description of the behaviour of both moderators and members at CQ implying that David was being subjected to a bloodbath over there.
In reality discussions have been mostly civil and apologies issued where necessary, the moderators being heavy handed at times have come down on both sides of the argument.
It seems to me Michael is carrying some emotional baggage as a result of his own banishment and is giving a dishonest account of affairs.
Another piece of nonsense that Michael is throwing up is the inverse square law.
This can be shown to be wrong by illustrating one of the concepts of Olber’s paradox that is hard to grasp intuitively, why the integrated brightness of the shells should equal the surface brightness of a star such as the Sun.
The use of mathematics clears up this issue.
The funny thing he doesn't even understand Eddington's work.
Eddington made it perfectly clear the 3.2K temperature is in our galaxy's frame of reference and therefore it cannot explain the dipole temperature of the CMB.
To make things more embarrassing for Michael, Eddington accepted an expanding Universe.
Dogma?? Really??
What a sore loser.It's utterly *amazing* how you guys can believe in this kind of nonsense, and how *oversimplified* your arguments have to be in order to even attempt to justify it. Let's see how oversimplified this argument really is:
First of all, in a "dusty" universe, the you can't "assume" that a travel path of any photon is "infinite". Nothing like that could possibly happen. You also ignored bremsstrahlung. You ignored the fact that a cloud isn't a "singular" item it's made of individual particles the also emit heat. You essentially *assumed* light has to be absorbed in order for it to be deflected. You didn't make any allowance whatsoever in terms of loss of brightness due to distance, and you assumed that simply extending distance *automatically* increases the number of photons based on increasing the number of light sources. Other than that, it's a fine (and totally meaningless) calculation.
Sheesh.
I had a quick look at David Crawford’s CC paper and I must admit I am impressed with the depth of detail and a thorough knowledge of mainstream science which is not surprising as he is a physicist.Hmm .. so 'Davd' (Crawford) kindly responded to my question at CQ as follows:
I'm reading up more on his Curvature Cosmology at the moment and how his above mentioned mechanism works.
'Twill be interesting to discuss this further here (which is probably more appropriate than in the CQ ATM Forum thread).
PS: That's as long as Michael doesn't distract us with his usual 'spin' on it all!
What a sore loser.
You demanded the maths, you got it.
Your response confirms yet again the maths and associated
physics is beyond your intellectual capacity for comprehension,
despite your feeble and dishonest attempts in trying to suggest otherwise.
The discussion is over.
Other participants in this thread have no problem with the paradox,
your comprehension issues are your problem
and a waste my time in further addressing, particularly when you don’t even have the backbone of admitting it.
And as usual, he did.... PS: That's as long as Michael doesn't distract us with his usual 'spin' on it all!
I didn't have any problem picking out your math error.
I had a quick look at David Crawford’s CC paper and I must admit I am impressed with the depth of detail and a thorough knowledge of mainstream science which is not surprising as he is a physicist.
This is totally unlike the Electric Universe nonsense which is so ridded with errors anyone with even a basic knowledge of science can drive a truck trough.
He recognizes that a static Universe is unstable and therefore requires a “curvature pressure” to counterbalance the effects of collapse.
Einstein had the same idea with the cosmological constant which is today’s equivalent of dark energy.
I can see problems as the theory doesn’t match observation.
Thirdly Olber’s paradox is not resolved.
Assuming curvature redshift exists the redshifting of visible photons still results in a bright night sky in wavelengths other than the visible spectrum.
In David Crawford’s response there is the suggestion of a finite age which that could resolve the paradox but opens up a can of worms as to how a static Universe can be created.
I hope you can continue the dialogue with him, at least you are guaranteed an intelligent discussion.
Ok Mr Narcissist point out the error in calculation.
Try again I asked to show the error in the calculation which constitutes a maths error.I already did that for you when I pointed out that you *assumed* that photons could travel forever through any medium.
A problem with the analysis of type Ia supernovae
Your verbally abusive behavior won't save you.
Hmm .. the way I read it, it seems he's running with two hypotheses simultaneously .. one is tired light, the other is curvature pressure which leads to 'modified Friedmann equations which have a simple solution for a uniform cosmic gas' ... (pages 8 & 9), although, it looks a bit like he's backing both horses to me(?)... He recognizes that a static Universe is unstable and therefore requires a “curvature pressure” to counterbalance the effects of collapse.
Einstein had the same idea with the cosmological constant which is today’s equivalent of dark energy.
Curvature pressure however is analogous to Newton’s third law for reaction forces that prevents collapse from occurring.
Along with curvature pressure is curvature redshift which is based on the principle that a family of geodesics curves which are the shortest distance taken by particles and photons in spacetime are compressed or focused. This assumes that the Universe has a closed or spherical spacetime geometry.
Photons travelling on these geodesics as waves undergo focussing which alters the angular momentum and produces photons of lower energy which is the primary mechanism for redshift and not through scattering.
I am not too sure of this mechanism.
Hmm .. I think he's proposing that the CMB is the end product of both scattering and curvature interactions .. so I'm not sure that, in that model, that the CMB structures could then be viewed as a test of the universe geometry(?)sjastro said:I can see problems as the theory doesn’t match observation.
First of all the evidence is very strong through the angular separations of structures in the CMB that the geometry of the Universe is flat which prevents his curvature redshift mechanism.
Hmm .. interesting ..sjastro said:Secondly the presence of gravitational lensing should be an environment for local curvature redshift, yet there is no evidence of photons passing through gravitational lenses being redshifted.
This is consistent with the mainstream mechanism of gravitational redshift/blueshift where a photon entering the gravitational lens initially undergoes gravitational redshift which is cancelled out by blueshift when it exits the lens.
Well I found that his response of 'unknown' on the age of the universe question actually then conveniently constitutes immediate positive justification for skirting around Olber's p. As Jean Tate mentioned, it may be premature to ask the age question from the perspective of: 'because he hasn't figured out the model for it yet', but it pretty clearly makes all the difference!sjastro said:Thirdly Olber’s paradox is not resolved.
Assuming curvature redshift exists the redshifting of visible photons still results in a bright night sky in wavelengths other than the visible spectrum.
In David Crawford’s response there is the suggestion of a finite age which that could resolve the paradox but opens up a can of worms as to how a static Universe can be created.
Do you mind if I ask questions at CQ based on our above discussion? I need to be careful as they aren't necessarily directly related to the SN lightcurve topic .. it would be great if they'd agree to discuss the cosmology, perhaps even as a separate 'Science & Technology Forum' thread(?)sjastro said:I hope you can continue the dialogue with him, at least you are guaranteed an intelligent discussion.
Try again I asked to show the error in the calculation which constitutes a maths error.
If you do not show this error then I suggest you retract the statement or I will report this post as an example of making up a blatant lie and attributing it to me.
Do you mind if I ask questions at CQ based on our above discussion? I need to be careful as they aren't necessarily directly related to the SN lightcurve topic .. it would be great if they'd agree to discuss the cosmology, perhaps even as a separate 'Science & Technology Forum' thread(?)
Secondly the presence of gravitational lensing should be an environment for local curvature redshift, yet there is no evidence of photons passing through gravitational lenses being redshifted.
I've proposed that Davd might be able to raise his 'Observational evidence favors a static universe' paper in the easier going S&T forum at CQ (which should raise a few CQ moderator eyebrows)... I hope you can continue the dialogue with him, at least you are guaranteed an intelligent discussion.
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