A problem with one of the titles of Jesus...

[88Devin07]

I have been wondering, I listen to a lot of Gospel and Praise music. One of the songs, titled "As the Deer" has these following words in it:

You're my friend and You are my brother
Even though You are a King
I love You more than any other
So much more than anything

I have been wondering, is it right/okay to refer to Jesus as your brother?

I believe Jesus isn't only my judge, my king, my redeemer, savior, Lord and God. But I also believe he is our "buddy" and our closest friend. But would we refer to him as our "brother"??

 

[choirfiend]

I wouldn't, b/c you're making yourself out to be another son of God, then. It's so easy to forget the reverence we should have for Christ in our relationship with him in the pursuit of "friendship."

 

[Xpycoctomos]

That's a good question. On the one hand it would seem that this could be true since God is our Father and He is Jesus Father and He taught us to prauy the Our Father. On the other hand, Choirfeind makes a good point. We also know that Mary is our Mother (although spiritually) as images the Church. Perhaps this can be a proper title keeping in mind that it is not meant to be taken to it's logical (human) conclusion. Similar to the Theotokos. She is the Mother of God, but we cannot conclude from this that God found His origin in the Theotokos or that Mary somehow had sexual relations with God the Father (as the Mormon's blasphemously believe).

Personally, I have a harder time with the title "buddy". The disciples treated Jesus as a mentor, a leader, a rabbai... but never a "buddy" from what I can tell. A buddy is not only someone I go to in times of trouble or dispair but someone who comes to me in hard times.. I have nothing to offer Christ but my love, worship and repentance. I would never go to my buddy and pour the most expensive bottle of perfume on his feet and kiss them. You know what I mean? I was taught this as a protestant (that Jesus is my buddy) but now I have serious problems with this.

But, in the end, as long as you realize that Jesus is in no way your equal and that He IS "holier than thou" and it seems you do then I guess there is no real problem here.

 

[88Devin07]

Yea but I just believe that when I enter into heaven, I will probably drop to my hands and knees in front of him, but I know he will embrace me and welcome me home... In the sense that he loves and cares for us, I refer to him as my buddy or friend.

He deserves more than just worship though that's all we can afford sometimes... But I also believe because he listens, loves, cares and takes care of us, in that sense he is our friend.
But in no way is he our literal brother of course.

I just personally believe he is in a sense, like a brother. My brother is someone who has always cared for me and loved me as closer than most brothers are. He makes sure i'm always ok and in good shape (emotionally and in good health). He also has always promised to protect me if anything were to happen. In that sense, I believe Jesus is like a brother, though he isn't a brother.

 

[choirfiend]

See, I think friends and brothers are like that because they are like God, not because God is like them....It's a total reversal of how you think of God.

 

[choirfiend]

We have loving traits because we are created in the image of God. It may be the best we can do sometimes to call Him things so we can understand His relationship to us, but I'd rather use the terms He laid out, like Father, than to subscribe new terms that are less than Father. A Father is in charge of us. A brother, frend, or buddy is our equal. It's a whole mindset, yo.

 

[88Devin07]

Yea that's true and I am sorry i didn't reverse it lol it's late an i'm growing tired...

 

[88Devin07]

So it should really say: You are like a brother even though you are a king? Or what? lol I don't want to sing those exact lyrics if it's wrong...

 

[Xpycoctomos]

We have loving traits because we are created in the image of God. It may be the best we can do sometimes to call Him things so we can understand His relationship to us, but I'd rather use the terms He laid out, like Father, than to subscribe new terms that are less than Father. A Father is in charge of us. A brother, frend, or buddy is our equal. It's a whole mindset, yo.

yo, good post Fr. Hopko actually makes this point when he says explains taht we do not call our Father in Heaven "Father" because he shares qualities with our Earthly father. It is the otherway around. We call our earthly Father by this tilte because he is supposed to try his hardest to mimic the example of the Heavenly Father and because just as the Heavenly Father is our ultimate origin, our Earthly father is our biologiucal origin. Same with our priest. He is supposed to mimic our father in that he is supposed to act as our spiritual guide.

I suppose I can take "friend"... (because Christ seems to refer to us as friend when he says the greatest act of love is to die for friend or something liek that) but... I don't know, "buddy" just seems too... base to me. That might just be me trying to let go of my protestant baggage though while others can use that term and not fall into the sometimes-protestant trap of debasing Christ to our "homey" and forgetting that He is someone worthy and toward whom it is necessary to fall down and prostrate before Him in fear and trembling.

But, Devin, your OP seems to safely show that you have not forgotten Christ being our ultimate Judge so, othing to worry about it would seem.

John

 

[choirfiend]

getting metaphorical isnt the answer either....Just don't sing it. This is why, though some music is ok, a lot of pop christian music is not theologically sound.

 

[choirfiend]

John
My personal opinion is that that is some baggage that is worthy of getting rid of...Look to the hymnography of the Church to get how we think of/refer to God.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I don't know about the song. Whatever. I don't think it is necessarily harmful to listen to CCM and I think it can be beneficial to many unless they are looking to learn from it. I that case, read the hymns of the Church. They are what will teach you. CCM is just, usually, good, wholesome... fluff. Not evil.. but fluff (My personal opinion of course )

 

[88Devin07]

Ccm?

 

[choirfiend]

(But there can be fluff that teaches wrong things....)

Music is one of the things that we carry with us most. It's gotta be the most powerful sense after smell. Beware the bad fluff!!!

There are some Orthodox pop artists out there...Peter Jon Gilquist is one, and he has other Orthodox artists linked from his site and on compilation discs....

 

[rhyddid_rose]

To Life Immortal

See, that is why I dont like most Contemporary Christian Music. Many of the songs' lyrics are stupid. I think they take romantic songs and change the words.

The Second Person of the Trinity is not my bru or mate or pal; He is the Creator of the Universe.


Peace and Long Life


Babochka

 

[CHARLES H]

I have been wondering, I listen to a lot of Gospel and Praise music. One of the songs, titled "As the Deer" has these following words in it:



I have been wondering, is it right/okay to refer to Jesus as your brother?

I believe Jesus isn't only my judge, my king, my redeemer, savior, Lord and God. But I also believe he is our "buddy" and our closest friend. But would we refer to him as our "brother"??

PAUL says we are heirs and joint heirs with CHRIST

 

[Xpycoctomos]

To Life Immortal

See, that is why I dont like most Contemporary Christian Music. Many of the songs' lyrics are stupid. I think they take romantic songs and change the words.

The Second Person of the Trinity is not my bru or mate or pal; He is the Creator of the Universe.


Peace and Long Life


Babochka

I personally agree with you Sister!

Reps to Baboshka!

 

[Xpycoctomos]

(But there can be fluff that teaches wrong things....)

Music is one of the things that we carry with us most. It's gotta be the most powerful sense after smell. Beware the bad fluff!!!

There are some Orthodox pop artists out there...Peter Jon Gilquist is one, and he has other Orthodox artists linked from his site and on compilation discs....

Good point

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Ccm?

Contemporary Christian Music (but I suse it to refer to any of that stuff they play on the "Praise" stations )

 

[CHARLES H]

so ya'll don't believe that JESUS is our friend?