A potential cause for 'sex is bad' attitude?

[shinbits]

it's interesting to note that in the above responses no one has yet figured out exactly why sex is reserved for marriage, but there is a lot of talk about 'i've got it, why can't i use it?"

one of the reasons to keep sex confined to marriage is because sex (when well done) is a gift of oneself to their partner. it's also the most vulnerable and open you'll ever be, whether you are a man or a woman.

sex outside of marriage is all about self, and is driven by thoughts of one's own pleasure and needs. it's basically using someone else to relieve hormone-driven thoughts and urges.
there's no respect or caring or committment or sharing or love involved. it de-personalizes what should be a very personal act between two people.

While I agree that sex should be reserved for marriage, I don't think this is a good reason why. Most recreational activities are self-gratifying. I play video games not because I want to help the human race, become closer to someone, or anything like that. It's purely about me, and having fun. Doesn't mean those things are wrong. And if I play a game or video game with someone else, the motivation is still that I want to have fun. I may be "using" that person to have fun, but it's still not wrong.

Honestly, outside of religious reasons, there no real reason why pre-marital sex is wrong. Premarital sex certainly isn't as safe as abstinence till marriage, and certainl puts one at a disadvantage if kids result from a pre-marital fling. But as far as "wrong", there's no real reason that can be given, except that this is what God intended, and we should follow it---but that's purely a subjective reason, and depends on one to believe in God, and also agree with God.

 

[PassionFruit]

it's interesting to note that in the above responses no one has yet figured out exactly why sex is reserved for marriage, but there is a lot of talk about 'i've got it, why can't i use it?"

one of the reasons to keep sex confined to marriage is because sex (when well done) is a gift of oneself to their partner. it's also the most vulnerable and open you'll ever be, whether you are a man or a woman.

sex outside of marriage is all about self, and is driven by thoughts of one's own pleasure and needs. it's basically using someone else to relieve hormone-driven thoughts and urges.
there's no respect or caring or committment or sharing or love involved. it de-personalizes what should be a very personal act between two people.

How does having sex when you're married somehow mean that you're not engaging in sexual activity for pure pleasure? Isn't that the reason why many young adults back then got married? So they could have sex and nothing would be wrong with it? That seems to me like it's purely driven by one's owns pleasure and needs.

Just because someone gets married, that doesn't mean they're doing it out of commitment and love.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I don't think it's fair to blame Christianity to any degree. Christianity doesn't teach that sex is bad. Christianity teaches that sex has a certain place, and that place is in marriage. In fact, the Bible even has an entire book (Song of Solomon) dedicated to love and eroticism. In the book of Proverbs, there's a verse about "enjoy your wife's breasts".

These days most Christians hold sex for pleasure in a marriage is acceptable. But even today many Christians say sex for anything but reproduction is wrong. In the past, it was worse, with Saint Augustine's view of 'Sex is wrong and evil, always, but somehow having it in marriage redeems it'. And with Paul basically saying 'well, sex isn't bad persay, but if you were perfect you wouldn't need it, so it kinda shows you aren't perfect' attitude (seen in the verses dealing with marrying so as to not burn with passion, which is a 'marry because you are still too weak/imperfect' attitude), sex has been looked down on numerous times.

Limiting where sex should take place doesn't mean the Bible's contributing to ideas that sex is bad. Everyone feels the same way about sex. Some people feel that sex shouldn't be between an adult and a child. Should that person be blamed for spreading a "sex is bad attitude"? Or how about having sex in public? Is it really contributing to a "sex is bad" attitude if it's considered inapropriate by anyone?

You mistake a 'sex is bad' attitude is. It is not an attitude that 'sex is evil/wrong', but that 'sex is something we should keep hidden'. An attitude of hiding it, treating it like something which is dirty, though not evil.

Likewise, the Bible isn't contributing to any notion that sex is wrong, simply because it advocates sex in marriage only. If everyone did that, there would be no spread of STD'S.

Did I ever say the Bible sex is evil? No, I said Christians have (and I was mostly referring to the past).

 

[shinbits]

These days most Christians hold sex for pleasure in a marriage is acceptable. But even today many Christians say sex for anything but reproduction is wrong. In the past, it was worse, with Saint Augustine's view of 'Sex is wrong and evil, always, but somehow having it in marriage redeems it'.

I think you're refering to the stereotypical view of Catholic doctrine. Mosts Protestant Christians don't believe anything is wrong with sex in of itself. You'll find the "sex for procreation only" thing is more of a Catholic thing.

And with Paul basically saying 'well, sex isn't bad persay, but if you were perfect you wouldn't need it, so it kinda shows you aren't perfect' attitude (seen in the verses dealing with marrying so as to not burn with passion, which is a 'marry because you are still too weak/imperfect' attitude), sex has been looked down on numerous times.

I've never seen any verse where Paul equates marriage with weakness.

You mistake a 'sex is bad' attitude is. It is not an attitude that 'sex is evil/wrong', but that 'sex is something we should keep hidden'. An attitude of hiding it, treating it like something which is dirty, though not evil.

Okay. But still, the Bible is not responsible for any view that sex is "dirty". Private? Maybe. But that's not bad either. I'm sure you don't want me listening in on your phone convos, or reading your e-mails. That doesn't mean your phone calls or e-mails are "dirty". There are many things that people think should be kept private, besides sex. And not because they're considered "dirty".

 

[quatona]

one of the reasons to keep sex confined to marriage is because sex (when well done) is a gift of oneself to their partner.

And why do you think gifts should be given exclusively within marriage?

it's also the most vulnerable and open you'll ever be, whether you are a man or a woman.

I suggest you speak for yourself.

sex outside of marriage is all about self, and is driven by thoughts of one's own pleasure and needs. it's basically using someone else to relieve hormone-driven thoughts and urges.

You like it black and white, don´t you?
Sex outside of marriage can mean exactly what it means within marriage, and sex within marriage can be self- and pleasure-driven just like it can outside marriage.

there's no respect or caring or committment or sharing or love involved.

Except when there is.
And respect, caring, sharing, love are involved within marriage except when they aren´t.

If you are referring to the legal contract "marriage", I would like you to explain how this technicality has such a powerful on sex.
If you are referring to the Christian idea of marriage, I would like to be explained how sex outside Christianity necessarily excludes love, respect etc.

it de-personalizes what should be a very personal act between two people.

Maybe instead of making wild ex-cathedra claims you could explain the mechanism by which lack of marriage necessarily makes sex a non-personal and even de-personalizing act.
So far your post has given zero explanation for what you said you were going to explain. I don´t think you are in the position to tell everyone what they feel and which attitude they act from, at least not until you have shown us your certificate in psychic skills.

 

[quatona]

Okay. But still, the Bible is not responsible for any view that sex is "dirty". Private? Maybe. But that's not bad either. I'm sure you don't want me listening in on your phone convos, or reading your e-mails. That doesn't mean your phone calls or e-mails are "dirty". There are many things that people think should be kept private, besides sex. And not because they're considered "dirty".

While there are certain phone-calls, emails etc. that I wouldn´t share with you, that´s still far from thinking that phone conversations and e-mails should be kept private.
I think that everyone should be given the right to keep their e-mails, phone talk etc. private - but that´s something else than thinking they should be kept private.

 

[quatona]

How does having sex when you're married somehow mean that you're not engaging in sexual activity for pure pleasure?

Although the poster may possibly have some personal or anecdotal evidence for this theory that sex ceases to be a pleasure as soon as you are married I have my doubts about its accuracy.

Just because someone gets married, that doesn't mean they're doing it out of commitment and love.

The term "marital obligation" comes to mind.

 

[Supernaut]

While I agree that sex should be reserved for marriage, I don't think this is a good reason why. Most recreational activities are self-gratifying. I play video games not because I want to help the human race, become closer to someone, or anything like that. It's purely about me, and having fun. Doesn't mean those things are wrong. And if I play a game or video game with someone else, the motivation is still that I want to have fun. I may be "using" that person to have fun, but it's still not wrong.

Honestly, outside of religious reasons, there no real reason why pre-marital sex is wrong. Premarital sex certainly isn't as safe as abstinence till marriage, and certainl puts one at a disadvantage if kids result from a pre-marital fling. But as far as "wrong", there's no real reason that can be given, except that this is what God intended, and we should follow it---but that's purely a subjective reason, and depends on one to believe in God, and also agree with God.

That didn't make sense, belief that sex should be reserved for marriage yet, you say that isn't really a good reason...????? Recreational activities and sex are different in their very nature.

Your analogy of sex and video games fails to bear any weight. Video games are light hearted fun. Sex is sacred.

There is definately very good reason outside of marriage of for abstinence. The variety of diseases enough should be warrant to curb promiscuity.

There isn't a single "disadvantage" to children resulting from sex. Children are the light and hope of this world!

 

[quatona]

Sex is sacred.

I guess that´s the creed that not everyone agrees with, to begin with. Which actually renders any rational discussion obsolete.

 

[Supernaut]

Very true...and unfortunate.

 

[quatona]

Very true...and unfortunate.

For whom and why?

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Your analogy of sex and video games fails to bear any weight. Video games are light hearted fun. Sex is sacred.

There is definately very good reason outside of marriage of for abstinence. The variety of diseases enough should be warrant to curb promiscuity.

Correct me if wrong, but, if it is not viewed as sacred, then is it sacred?
The way I see it, if the persons does not view sex as a sacred union, then it is not sacred for that person. If they view it - as much as be said against such - as "light hearted fun"...

STDs are a reason not to have premarital sex, but they do not entail it being "wrong", only unsafe in nature.

 

[PassionFruit]

There is definately very good reason outside of marriage of for abstinence. The variety of diseases enough should be warrant to curb promiscuity.

Yes, but reality tells me that despite the threat of STD's this hasn't curbed sexual promiscuity. In an ideal world, people everywhere would not engage in premarital sex.

 

[Supernaut]

Yes, but reality tells me that despite the threat of STD's this hasn't curbed sexual promiscuity. In an ideal world, people everywhere would not engage in premarital sex.

True but nontheless very disheartening.

 

[pdudgeon]

some interesting responses, but there's still a lot of denial going on here.

the reasoning of 'refrain from sex because of STD's' , though it's a good reason, is still all about self.

let's look at Genesis 2:24 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. "

the meaning of the word 'united' in Hebrew translates to 'interwoven'.

the marital partnership is just that. it's not about "me" as a single person, but about "we" as a working unit joined together in a marital covenant to accomplish a specific purpose in life that could not be accomplished by either person working alone.

but to understand fully what marriage is, we need to understand the difference between a marriage covenant and a business contract.

in business a contract is drawn up between two parties for the purpose of guaranteeing the expected performance by both. Because of that, it is based on mutual mistrust--each person agreeing to live up to the contract only as far as the other person will continue to do so.
"I will if you will, but I won't if you don't."

but a marriage covenant is different. it is based upon mutual commitment. it says 'i am in this all the way. no exceptions. period.'

the second part of that verse, "and they will become one flesh" translates to 'completely joined' in every way, with no beginning and no end. that's a far greater and deeper meaning than only having a sexual union, though sex is a physical expression of that union.

i hope this helps to clarify the differences between how today's society views marriage and sexuality and how it was supposed to be.