A picture in mind

[lukeschofield]

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

 

[seashale76]

I always had a vague Jesus picture too before I became Orthodox. Now, I get to see a variation of this icon of the Resurrection all the time. It makes sense that a person would picture the incarnation to me. That is, of course, if I'm reading you right.

"Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!"

 

[ebia]

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

Sorry - I have no idea what your question means.

 

[Digit]

Hello lukeschofield,

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

Essentially this sounds like you are comparing fallen humans, ie, us and those around you, to your image of Jesus and finding them to be two wholly different things. Well, if that is the case (maybe I misunderstood) then I think that's totally natural. Jesus was perfect, and we are not. In addition I think it depends on what that 'meaning' is that you mentioned. Can you elaborate?

In answer to your question, I think it's fairly common to have an overall concept of what faith is, or religion as it pertains to Christianity, I guess the most we can hope is that it's an accurate and valid one.

Cheers!
Digit

 

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I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?

Are you talking about a picture image or a image of what Jesus stood for?

So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

It is trust. Trust in the Will of God. That trust is cemented by the knowledge of Gods loving kindness towards me.

1 John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

Well to some we seem a bit peculiar, But in a crazy world being seen as peculiar by the majority might just mean we are the only really sane people here. LOL

1 Peter 2
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[lukeschofield]

Sorry - I have no idea what your question means.

What I mean is: is some form of visualisation, however subtle, natural for a Christian? I'll try and explain where I'm coming from (a bit long sorry).

For a Tibetan Buddhist, visualisation is a religious practice. they meditate and picture Buddhas, pure lands and offerings.

For someone like seashale76 - an Orthodox Christian - having an image in mind is part of their religious life.

When I was a Christian, much of which I can't remember, God the father - invisible but "spiritually present" - was important to me, but I used to picture Jesus and Mary when I said the rosary.

Another way of looking at the question would be to ask to what extent do mental representations of religious artwork and iconography play in the faith and worship of the Christian community. It would not be as broad as the original question though, which would include "homemade" mental images too, not just one's painted by famous artists.

For a Muslim, "picturing" God is a blasphemous act of kufr. God is to remain invisible, wheras for some Christians at least, it seems that mental representations are allowed, if not second nature.

For a Muslim to picture God "in colour" (or in any way) whilst praying would likely be a sin or a theological error, wheras for a Christian this might be seen as a helpful practice.

I can imagine God the father existing, and don't have a mental image associated with this. I get a feeling of personhood in the sky instead. So, if I were at a Jewish forum, I might not be asking this question. But: when Jesus comes into the "God equation" I naturally concieve and picture a fleshy, visible element when trying to conjour up a sense of what God is.

As an atheist though I think (of the pictoral element): "that's just my imagination, it doesn't independently exist, God is just a product of an overactive mind", and things like that.

Now, my intention here is not to make you doubt your religion, but rather to A: see if picturing really is common, natural or essential; and B: if so, what relation does the picture have to one's personal relationship with God or to God himself: and C: if not, then when concieving of God what do you have "in mind"?

 

[lukeschofield]

Hello lukeschofield,


Essentially this sounds like you are comparing fallen humans, ie, us and those around you, to your image of Jesus and finding them to be two wholly different things. Well, if that is the case (maybe I misunderstood) then I think that's totally natural. Jesus was perfect, and we are not.

It had nothing to do with that, sorry.

In addition I think it depends on what that 'meaning' is that you mentioned. Can you elaborate?

Well alongside a fuzzy little blur in my mind, I have "Jesus", "God" and "holy" etc spring up at the same time. Not naturally, just when I try and concieve of the Christian God.

 

[ebia]

What I mean is: is some form of visualisation, however subtle, natural for a Christian? I'll try and explain where I'm coming from (a bit long sorry).

For a Tibetan Buddhist, visualisation is a religious practice. they meditate and picture Buddhas, pure lands and offerings.

For someone like seashale76 - an Orthodox Christian - having an image in mind is part of their religious life.

When I was a Christian, much of which I can't remember, God the father - invisible but "spiritually present" - was important to me, but I used to picture Jesus and Mary when I said the rosary.

Another way of looking at the question would be to ask to what extent do mental representations of religious artwork and iconography play in the faith and worship of the Christian community. It would not be as broad as the original question though, which would include "homemade" mental images too, not just one's painted by famous artists.

For a Muslim, "picturing" God is a blasphemous act of kufr. God is to remain invisible, wheras for some Christians at least, it seems that mental representations are allowed, if not second nature.

For a Muslim to picture God "in colour" (or in any way) whilst praying would likely be a sin or a theological error, wheras for a Christian this might be seen as a helpful practice.

I can imagine God the father existing, and don't have a mental image associated with this. I get a feeling of personhood in the sky instead. So, if I were at a Jewish forum, I might not be asking this question. But: when Jesus comes into the "God equation" I naturally concieve and picture a fleshy, visible element when trying to conjour up a sense of what God is.

As an atheist though I think (of the pictoral element): "that's just my imagination, it doesn't independently exist, God is just a product of an overactive mind", and things like that.

Now, my intention here is not to make you doubt your religion, but rather to A: see if picturing really is common, natural or essential; and B: if so, what relation does the picture have to one's personal relationship with God or to God himself: and C: if not, then when concieving of God what do you have "in mind"?

Can't say that it plays much of a role for me.

 

[prgallo]

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

Sorry, you are not being clear. Are you saying you have a picture in your mind what a Christian is and what Jesus looks like? Are you aking, "what is a Christian"?

OK, I read more of the posts and would say picturing or imagery plays no part in my Christian walk.

 

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What I mean is: is some form of visualisation, however subtle, natural for a Christian? I'll try and explain where I'm coming from (a bit long sorry).

For a Tibetan Buddhist, visualisation is a religious practice. they meditate and picture Buddhas, pure lands and offerings.

For someone like seashale76 - an Orthodox Christian - having an image in mind is part of their religious life.

When I was a Christian, much of which I can't remember, God the father - invisible but "spiritually present" - was important to me, but I used to picture Jesus and Mary when I said the rosary.

Another way of looking at the question would be to ask to what extent do mental representations of religious artwork and iconography play in the faith and worship of the Christian community. It would not be as broad as the original question though, which would include "homemade" mental images too, not just one's painted by famous artists.

Well i can only answer for myself. Images play no part in my faith. I do not need to visualise anything. It is the message that draws and keeps me.

For a Muslim, "picturing" God is a blasphemous act of kufr. God is to remain invisible, wheras for some Christians at least, it seems that mental representations are allowed, if not second nature.

For a Muslim to picture God "in colour" (or in any way) whilst praying would likely be a sin or a theological error, wheras for a Christian this might be seen as a helpful practice.

I can imagine God the father existing, and don't have a mental image associated with this. I get a feeling of personhood in the sky instead. So, if I were at a Jewish forum, I might not be asking this question. But: when Jesus comes into the "God equation" I naturally concieve and picture a fleshy, visible element when trying to conjour up a sense of what God is.

Why exert effort into building an image that will always be something less then God?

As an atheist though I think (of the pictoral element): "that's just my imagination, it doesn't independently exist, God is just a product of an overactive mind", and things like that.

Now, my intention here is not to make you doubt your religion, but rather to A: see if picturing really is common, natural or essential; and B: if so, what relation does the picture have to one's personal relationship with God or to God himself: and C: if not, then when concieving of God what do you have "in mind"?

No pictures are essential. What i have in my mind is His messages to me. What i have in mind is His love for me. No picture of Him is necessary.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]

 

[seashale76]

I'm going to simply expand on the reasons as to why the Church uses iconography, especially of Christ. Because of the incarnation of Christ, we can see the invisible God. Christ is God. He is fully God and fully man. It is for this reason that we can depict Christ in icons. Without Christ, it would be as the Muslims and Jews say. Interestingly enough, God the Father is not shown in iconography. Even so, we do not see such images as God Himself. Christ came in the flesh, so to us, our salvation is more than just spiritual or intellectual, but also physical. We need to engage all of our senses. We couldn't be saved without the physical incarnation.

 

[Lukaris]

"And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh." (Matthew 2:11). This is the basis of the most familiar icon of the ancient Christian faith. The appearance of the Lord in his incarnation in the arms of the blessed Virgin Mother. Praying that this and the image presented by Seashale help fulfill the image you are perceiving. see this icon at http://www.lukedingman.com/imagesicon/theotokostenderness1.jpg and this post is not intended as any contention of any other posts here.

 

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[tapero]

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

Hi, I think it's common as we are human and I would suspect as I do on occasion when praying imagine a human image of God in my mind, and then I try to move that out, but as we are human, it appears a tendency, but I work to have no earthly image, no image of God other than what is in the bible.

And I dont' need an image, but I have noticed that here and there I tend to visualize..but none is needed of course, though is fairly fun to imagine what God looks like and we have some of it in the bible, tho God apparently can take many forms. (we see this in the bible)

and is okay that you do so... God knows your heart..just keep in mind, what you are visualizing if say a picture you've seen, keep it in mind that you are visualizing, and that it is not God...just for your own sake..as to not get stuck with a picture in your head..and

I imagine many things of God, what it's like to be Spirit as is said the Father is.. Same as the Holy Spirit, would be Spirit. But we also see God not as Spirit.and is shown in verses below.

I believe though that God can take any form He desires to, as well, and scripture appears to show this...see the two quotes from Daniel below.

God appears as a man in the OT in several places.., I believe that is preincarnate Jesus.

though not sure..just what I believe

there is one where God shows moses his back, may be in latter portion of geneis or in exodus...

below this is speaking of the time of judgement (end times)

This must be the Father (Ancient of Days) in this passage (how he appeared to Daniel) and below this quote is another

"As I looked,
"thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.

as to the wheels, I dont' believe that is about God, but about angelic beings..you'll not it says such after thrones, hence, not about God, but somethng about the throne, and there are a kind of angelic beings which have wheels.. which may well be what he's seeing there.

this quote is one para past the above quote in the bible..and so apparently Ancient of Days is the Father, as below He sees Jesus (son of man.)

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

But there is a much more descriptive passage and I can't locate it at the moment.

Some are symbolic representations I'm sure, but sometimes I like to think about how God manifested to the Hebrews in the pillar of fire, and clouds.. I like to imagine lots of things as pertains to how God is.

and we also know from revelation, peals of lightning and thunder come from the throne.. sometimes i think of that, which to me, is not God but is symbolic or is an occurance actual... and not clear on what is meant, tho can imagine very much so,,just never looked into it.

above two are to me symbolic and not pictures of God, but things about God.

We do have some written descriptions as well.

one thing is very very interesting to me, and I believe is in Isaiah, well, I'm sure it is..

of Jesus it says, he had nothing in his appearance that would attract us to him..

this is very significant to me.

this means to me, that Jesus was most likely a plain looking person.

and to me, i understand why..

if he was an attractive man, then man and women, might be attracted to him due to his appearance.

as you note in the world, often times, it appears that people desire to be around attractive people..

not a right thing, but is what occurs often times..

and that attraction is not to the heart, is to the person's appearance.

hence why I believe we are given what Isaiah says of Jesus.. few seem to notice that verse, i rarely hear it spoken of, and we always see pictures of Jesus, as a very handsome man..or generally so, tho not always.

God does not want us to idolize things.. so is why Christians are careful in this area.

in revalation, john says, he saw Jesus appearing as a lamb slain.

now that could mean many things.. it could mean how he actually saw Jesus to look, it could mean how he personally sees Jesus, that he saw Jesus as a lamb slain, or an innocent slain..

also from that description I tend to think that we will see his wounds, and I may have that coming from another verse, and just mixed up at the moment..

I sometimes visualize Jesus looking as a lamb slain..it gives me a whole different thought..a beautiful thought about Jesus, or should I say the beauty of Jesus in that either symbolic or real appearance John saw.

very interesting to ponder these things

again, no clue to what he actually means...

in the ot is 2 or 3 or more passages to my recollection describing God..

in nt we see that once Jesus rose he was walking with some and kept it was kept from them to recognize him at first.

This is after he was resurrected but before he ascended to heaven.

so these believed they were talking with a man, and as it was Jesus apparently they knew what Jesus looked like but while they were talking it was kept from them that it was Jesus

then they're eyes are opened.. and they recognize they've been with Jesus


and what did those 2 say of him when they realized was Jesus...

Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

they didn't speak of his outward appearance..

but of the effect on their hearts, just as the lamb appearing slain..to me the effect on my heart..

here is another of Jesus from Revelation:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze

here's another, not sure if Jesus or the Father; have looked after writing this, and am fairly sure is Jesus

On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, 5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of the finest gold around his waist. 6 His body was like chrysolite, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

so there's descriptions in the bible and again I believe God can have any appearance..and as to all I posted above, one can take for themself, if feel is symbolic or actual.

there's more, and i can't find the one i was looking for, but we know that we aren't to idolize things,, and such as worship a created thing..we are only to worship God, hence why many are very careful in this area.

Just careful not to stray into idolizing something; anything as would be wrong to do so.

and I don't need to visualize, but I do think is common what you are describing as it is natural for us to think in earthly terms as well.

is not a problem, God knows your heart and never to worry.

take care,
blessings,
and thank you for being real as to how you feel

 

[tapero]

I am a non-christian and have this image of being one: (something to do with) having an image of Jesus in my minds eye.

Now I'm sure that this is a fairly subjective and perhaps shallow view of the "meaning" of Christianity, but I can't seem to contemplate the religion as a whole without this "Jesus image" (and it's not a high definition image, just a hint of colour, if that, with meaning attatched).


Am I being clear?


So... is this a common thing or purely personal to me etc? What do you have in mind when considering the essence of your faith? Is it a moral action, a prayer, a hope, ie. something other than what I imagine?

You see, whilst board members I have met here seem like decent, pleasant and intelligent people, viewing them through 'my perspective' on the meaning of the faith - an "ickle" picture - they / you seem strange. And I'm sure you're not.

Please explain yourselves.

I didn't answer a portion in my other post, which when written is fairly unorganized as went back and forth.

but the essence of my faith, is Jesus...

its not a moral action, it's not a prayer, nor a hope though we have great hope, but as regards hope, to me means, that im not here for long as compares to eternity.. of God I am sure and certain.

So being a Christian is not about morality, it is about Jesus, and once we are in Christ, we learn many things, and our hearts are changed deeply...and as you read of Jesus, you'll note he generally speaks to the heart, speaks the deeper things than were thought of in general as pertains to God...

anyone can be moral..

there is only one God (Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit) and our faith is in God, in Jesus

but only believers in Christ know God and as I said is all about Jesus... our walk, our life is all about Jesus...

what He gave us in Christ, all we have in the bible, and in our hearts.. is centered around Christ...

sometimes this is always in the fore front of our mind, and sometimes not... and our walk is not always on the narrow path, and we go through many things...

and there is a ongoing struggle in the spiritual realm (demons waging war against men and God), which we can not see or know..just have a few glimpses...

and the struggles in life..these are the things we see most often..and with Gods help and with the bible we learn how best to walk closely with God, and tho we don't always do so.

and for some just hanging on by a thread is all they can do (even though God will never let us go, even if we let go), and is okay, God knows all that we are going through, He knows our hearts. He knows us.

and..well.. i could go on and on.

hope that helped a little..the essence of my faith is Jesus..

take care,
tapero

 

[salida]

I'm not sure what your asking; but being a christian is turning from ones fallen nature (sinful nature) and dying daily to yourself and becoming more like Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit. After one repents of their sin and turns away from their fallen nature, they ask for the Holy Spirit in their life to have the power to live a christian life.

The image of Jesus who is the Son of God and thus, God - is describe in Relevation what he looks like in heaven. His hair is white and His eyes are like a flame of fire. The true image of Him in paintings is tradition. In reality he probably had tan skin and short hair - if one truly looked at the culture back 2000 years ago.

If I didn't answer your question, feel free to email me.

 

[zaksmummy]

Have you ever thought that God is using this picture of Jesus in your mind to start you asking questions about him?

God often uses things we know or have experienced in the past to bring us closer to him

Catrin xx

 

[lukeschofield]

Thanks to all for your responses (I will read tham fully later), I have been shown a broader image of your faith. I am gladdened that some of you see mental images as inessential, and action and emulation as more fundamental. I am closer to being a Christian in that case.