A Philosophical Problem

[TSIBHOD]

Okay, this is a philosophical question, but I'd like to see what some fellow Christians think about it. Please just focus on this problem from a philosophical standpoint for now, and after there are plenty of comments and votes, perhaps a discussion of how this applies to Christianity can ensue.

I can reveal the title of this philosophical problem later, but for now, I'd just like to let people think about it on their own. Here it is, with my own unique wording:

One day, out of the blue, you meet an angel. This angel (who never lies to you, by the way) gives you a unique machine, leaves you instructions concerning the machine, then leaves.

These were the angel's instructions:

This machine consists of an indestructible, transparent container, called "Container X." Inside it are two boxes. Box #1 is opaque, and has either $1,000,000 in it or nothing in it. Box #2, as you can see, is transparent and has $1,000 inside. Both of the boxes are normal boxes that you can open. Notice that on the side of Container X, there are two buttons. If you press Button A, Box #1 will be released to you and Container X will automatically destroy Box #2 and all of Box #2's contents. If you press Button B, Container X will release both Box #1 and Box #2 to you, and all of the contents will be yours. After you've pressed the button of your choice and gotten your box(es), Container X will fly off and disappear.

There is one catch. You will remember that I said that Box #1 has either one million dollars in it, or it has nothing in it. I have decided to either put the million dollars in there or not based on one thing.
If I have predicted that you would press Button A and take just Box #1, then I put the million dollars in the box.
If I have predicted that you would press Button B and take both Box #1 and Box #2, then then I have put nothing in Box #1.

That's it. I've already made my decision to place the million dollars in Box #1 or not. The million dollars is either there or it isn't. I'll be gone when you make your decision, and there's no way for me to change my mind. I can't decide to put the million dollars in or take it out after you've made your decision. I've already either put it in or left it out. Container X will follow its instructions: it will release you the correct box(es) when you press your chosen button, and then it will leave. Now the decision is up to you.

One final note: I have done this exercise with several people before. In fact, I have done it with over 10,000 individuals, and not once have I been wrong in my prediction. With that knowledge, proceed.​

ALL of the green, indented part is the angel talking, not me. Now you have the angel's instructions. Remember, everything the angel told you was true.

Working from what the angel said, and with the background knowledge I've given you, which box will you choose?

 

[morant]

that's an interesting proposition.

to me the question is: do you want me to have the million dollars in the first place. Or are you trying to keep me from getting it? Do you care?

really:
one thousand dollars, while it would be nice won't change my life......

and.....$1,001,000.00 is really not much more exciting than $1,000,000.00

so if you predicted I was shallow and would push 'B'(this is assuming i'm a retard and you were trying to make it easy for me to get the money) and I actually pushed 'A', then I'd walk away with nothing....dang.....but then all I did was push a stinkin button...no biggie.

but If you had a little faith in my cognitive abilites and my charachter, well.....payday!!!

it seems you would have to know a little about me to have success either way.
Also I would like to know a little about you(and what you want or ecpect for/from me) in order to choose wisley.

all things being equal and having no more info than you presented.....I would just push 'A' and hope for the best.

 

[lummoxcooties]

This is interesting.

But what makes this a philosophical problem? And when you say that you have never been wrong, are you talking about the angel, or you-yourself?

 

[beechy]

Is this a version of the prisoner's dilemma?

I pick A. $1000 is nothing, so the risk is well worth it even if A ends up being empty.

 

[TSIBHOD]

This is interesting.

But what makes this a philosophical problem? And when you say that you have never been wrong, are you talking about the angel, or you-yourself?

The indented part is the angel's instructions. I'll try to make that clearer in the OP.

 

[TSIBHOD]

Is this a version of the prisoner's dilemma?

I pick A. $1000 is nothing, so the risk is well worth it even if A ends up being empty.

Remember, if you pick B, you get both boxes, so if a million is in Box #1, you still get it. It's just that if the angel thought you would pick B, he didn't put the million in there. And the angel is very good at predicting. He might mispredict one in a million, or something like that.

 

[TSIBHOD]

that's an interesting proposition.

to me the question is: do you want me to have the million dollars in the first place. Or are you trying to keep me from getting it? Do you care?[/u]

I don't care which one you choose. I'd suppose that most people would rather have the million if they can get it. Your job is to figure out what is most beneficial for you based on the situation. Take both boxes, or take just one? Whether the angel put the million in there rests on the angel's prediction of which choice you'd make. It is not contingent on which choice you make, because the million is either there or it isn't. On the other hand, the angel is hardly ever wrong, so....

 

[morant]

I don't care which one you choose. I'd suppose that most people would rather have the million if they can get it.....

in my post 'you' and 'the angel' are synomomus(just the way I read your post I took it that you were the angel so take the wording of my first post in that light)
.....the angel must have some motivation? just to see if his prediction is correct?

If I have predicted that you would press Button A and take just Box #1, then I put the million dollars in the box.
If I have predicted that you would press Button B and take both Box #1 and Box #2, then then I have put nothing in Box #1.

still I must decide what the angel thinks I'm going to take.....If the angel has predicted that I will indeed pick box 'A' then I should pick box 'B' and walk away with 1,001,000.00
If I knew the angel would predict me to take box 'B' then by all means I should take box 'B' or I'll leave with nothing.........

I vote to change my original vote......wait....no......the angel is always right so the angel knows my thought process will lead me back to 'A' because if I don't pick 'A' there is no chance for a million dollars.......
.....and If I pick 'A' and do happen to wind up with nothing....errr......I was one in a million and the angel was wrong.....stupid angel.

 

[lummoxcooties]

My decision may change dpepnding on whether it is a good angel or a fallen angel. If the angel is usually correct, the smartest thing is to choose Button A, becuase you will just end up with 1,000 with Button B. If the angel is lying and does not always predict correctly, then you have 4 possibilities- nothing, or all of it because the angel was wrong, or 1,000 or a million because the angel was right.

But to add the the mix, suppose I decide on not ever pushing the button, or if I try to push both at the same time!?!?

 

[zoziw]

I'd flip the angel "the bird" and walk away...or did it already predict that I would to that and that is why this hasn't happened to me yet?

 

[holyorders]

There is never just two choices in any situation. What about humblly deciding not to gamble in the first place? (BTW no angel would try to give you money unless it was for a higher purpose)

 

[morant]

I can reveal the title of this philosophical problem later

ok...spit it out

 

[TSIBHOD]

ok...spit it out

What I posted is called Newcomb's Problem or Newcomb's Paradox. I worded it in my own way so that I wouldn't have to reference any source. It's a quite interesting problem. As has been noted by many people, there are two schools of thought about the Paradox. And the funny thing is, both sides think that the solution is easy and that the other side is being ridiculous.

SIDE ONE:
It's easy. Take the one box. You're almost certain to get the million dollars, because the "angel" (sometimes replaced with "God," or "super-intelligent alien") is (almost) always right.

SIDE TWO:
It's easy. Take both boxes. The angel is already gone, and his decision is already made, so he can't make a switch, even if he didn't predict you right. And whether he predicted you right or not, you're better off taking both boxes. After all, the angel has come and gone, and the million dollars is either already there or it isn't. Either way, you'll be better off taking the extra grand.

See the following sites for more information.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/KVC/newc.htm
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2061419

 

[lummoxcooties]

But God is always right, so no matter what you choose, you will never end up with $1,001,000 and you will never end up getting $0. It is impossible to choose what you didn't choose.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Push button 2, take the grand and be happy or push button 1 and get nothing?

I'll push button 2.

 

[TSIBHOD]

But God is always right, so no matter what you choose, you will never end up with $1,001,000 and you will never end up getting $0. It is impossible to choose what you didn't choose.

Here's the interesting thing from the other side. If you're saying that "God" or "a super intelligent alien" or whatever has great predictive power, then you know that He (or it) is going to be right either every time (in the case of God, and perhaps the case of a super-intelligent being) or almost every time. Okay, that much is clear. If you take one box, you (almost) certainly get a million, and if you take both boxes, you get one thousand.

But I said that the box that might have the million is opaque. What would happen if your friend got to look in the opaque box. He would either see the million or he wouldn't, but since it's already there (or not there), he would tell you to go ahead and take both boxes. There is no penalty for doing something that the Predicter didn't predict.

So that's an interesting side to this problem. If you had a friend who wished you to get the most money possible, and if that friend also saw whether the million was there or not, that friend would always tell you to take both boxes. (Remember, the money is already either there or it isn't by the time you're presented with the situation.) If the friend sees the million there, he'll tell you to go ahead and get the thousand, too. If he doesn't see the million, he'll tell you to get the thousand. Either way, if you had a friend who was better informed than you and wanted you to get as much money as possible, that friend would always advise you to take both boxes.

In fact, you might take one box because you would assume that your actions would have backward causality (because of the Predicter's foresight and predictive power). You might take the one box because you would assume that your action of taking it is what makes the million be there. But if you already knew that the million was there, could you take both boxes? What if it was God who was the Predicter? Could you do something that you knew God didn't predict?

 

[lummoxcooties]

It is impossible to predict something that God didn't. The only way to "see" Box 1 in reality is to know what God knows. We must be omniscient. We are not, and neither are our "friends."

It is interesting though. If we were to know if the box was empty or not, we could easily disprove the predictor. In fact, the predictor would be wrong a lot more.

 

[IXOYE<><]

I picked button A. But I'm too tired to go into detail tonight.

 

[Lilli]

I'd choose box 1 - if the million is there fine - if not - I haven't lost anything. I could take box 1 and 2 and but I think box 1 would end up being empty in that case - our punishment for being greedy! It's a GAME of chance - so take a chance and take box 1.

 

[theywhosowintears]

I would pray about it... and then pres both at the same time and see what happens!

lol Who reallly cares... it's only money and i know that in Matthew Jesus says not to worry about money cause God will provide for me so I would tell the angel that my Dad (his Boss) had it covered anyway.

peace