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A paradox exists. At its heart: God. Still concerned about the paradox?

TillICollapse

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Well in personal life, people can decide for themselves what is important. In public life, the law has a duty to protect the public.
People's personal choices often effect the public. And the laws in and of themselves do not do anything ... people do. People either seek to protect each other, or they don't, by whatever standard they comply with.

I'd say the mystery box is a public matter.
Since my house exists in the public, does that mean everything inside it is a public matter ? People's concept of personal verses private differ culturally quite often, for example.

Also, just because people disagree doesn't mean some opinions aren't more reasonable than others.
Hopefully this is often obvious lol.

I'm not arguing with or against any of your points, btw. I've always liked the mystery box idea for the various ramifications.

There was a small 5-6 episode series that was run on SyFy several years ago called "The Lost Room". I won't spoil it, but the short gift of it (if you don't know) is a cop happens upon a hotel key that, when you put it into any lock on any door, when you open that door it leads to a mysterious hotel room. From that hotel room you can go anywhere you've been previously, or can visualize. Anyways something happens to the cop, which gets him caught up in various escapades to right a wrong. He learns that there is more that exists than just the key ... there are objects all around the US that have strange properties that all tie back to this room, and people call them "objects". There are various groups and cabal's, all with their own agendas, their own reasons for wanting the objects, their own view on what they are and what they aren't, etc. I like the idea of that show also lol :) It's a good watch, all on YouTube (I googled) :)
 
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Paradoxum

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People's personal choices often effect the public. And the laws in and of themselves do not do anything ... people do. People either seek to protect each other, or they don't, by whatever standard they comply with.

And I think there are more reasonable and just ways to consider this.

Since my house exists in the public, does that mean everything inside it is a public matter ? People's concept of personal verses private differ culturally quite often, for example.

If there's a nuclear bomb in your house, that would be a public matter.

I'm not arguing with or against any of your points, btw. I've always liked the mystery box idea for the various ramifications.

I didn't like the mystery box story, because to me, the way it was presented seemed to imply that we should give up on truth, morality, and justice.

:)
 
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TillICollapse

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And I think there are more reasonable and just ways to consider this.
There probably are :)

If there's a nuclear bomb in your house, that would be a public matter.
IF.

I didn't like the mystery box story, because to me, the way it was presented seemed to imply that we should give up on truth, morality, and justice.

:)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm .........

Okay, what do you mean "the way it was presented" ? As in, the manner in which I typed it out ? Or the manner in which the box itself was presented within the story ? Or do you mean, that the way I presented the story implied that I, personally, was suggesting we collectively should give up on truth, morality, and justice ? Clarification por favor :)
 
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Freodin

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Casting pearls reveals more about the swine than the pearls themselves, or even the one casting them. In the case of truth, it is a double edged sword. It cuts both the person it hits and the one wielding the blade. Light reveals what it hits. In the case of Truth, invariance and symmetry has no shame to hide. This is the reason light illuminates what it hits. Darkness does not dispel light. It's the other way around.

In the case of the girl above, she may be modest. Truth is not modest. It is bold. It desires to be fully known. As for a girl, knowing her is a private matter. Knowing truth is public. Humility before truth is opposite of pride over truth. Truth can judge. This is for sure. A person can use truth to judge another. Also true. Revealing truth can be accomplished with humility.

As I said, casting the pearls reveals the person trampling them. It also rescues the one smart enough to pick them up off the ground.

Gospel of Philip

"When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father."

The pearl always has the same value. No amount of mud changes it. We are the pearls in the mud by the way. Swine love mud. So did the prodigal Son. He learned from the swine. Opposites add value.

Some deep thoughts about swines, mud, pearls and value:

Mud is rather valuable for swine. It helps them enormously: cools them, protects them from sun, helps them get rid of parasites. The value of pearls for humans is "Oh, shiny!"

Value depends on a lot of things. It is never the same.
 
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Paradoxum

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Okay, what do you mean "the way it was presented" ? As in, the manner in which I typed it out ? Or the manner in which the box itself was presented within the story ? Or do you mean, that the way I presented the story implied that I, personally, was suggesting we collectively should give up on truth, morality, and justice ? Clarification por favor :)

It just seemed to imply that what was important was how people felt, rather than the truth, or what was the right thing to do.

Perhaps that wasn't the point, I'm just saying it seemed a bit like that. :)
 
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TillICollapse

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It just seemed to imply that what was important was how people felt, rather than the truth, or what was the right thing to do.

Perhaps that wasn't the point, I'm just saying it seemed a bit like that. :)
Yes I can see why it would seem a bit like implying those things were the point ... but that's not the point specifically. There are multiple issues which the mystery box highlights, depending on different people's point of view and their individual/collective response to it.
 
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Paradoxum

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Yes I can see why it would seem a bit like implying those things were the point ... but that's not the point specifically. There are multiple issues which the mystery box highlights, depending on different people's point of view and their individual/collective response to it.

:thumbsup:
 
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TillICollapse

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No, I hate you ;)
Well done :) ... I knew when I asked that question and opened the door for a response, you may come back with, "No, you suck" or "I still don't like it, I hate you" etc. I told myself that if you responded with something like that, then I could never type out what I would want to say in return hahahaha :)
 
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Gottservant

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Not to put a fly in the ointment that doesn't need to be there, but does it bother any one if I point out that you have shifted the mystery of the box from that which may or may not relate to God to a mystery which is only about people?

I am still thinking about what was said, for the moment.
 
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Gottservant

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There were people who assumed the box was related to God in some way as well.

You are missing something more simple. It's not limiting freedom to suggest while not forcing ... but you are disrespecting someone's personal space if they didn't invite it in the first place. And secondarily, you may be cheapening the very thing you are suggesting depending on how you suggest it.

Let's say I have a picture of a hot girl that I once dated whom I claim I really did care about, who is now free to date and I have no qualms about "offering her" to others to suggest they date her. So I go around taking pics of her, telling everyone about her, suggesting they date her. Some would liken me to a pimp. Some would think I was completely disrespecting the girl. Some would be made very uncomfortable by what I was doing. Some might be fine with it for any number of reasons: they like pics of hot girls, they want a shot at her because they think she might be easy, whatever. But is this typically how a real, lasting, trust building and forming, significant relationship is formed with someone ? By someone pimping out another ? And also ... what does that say about me and the way I value the relationship I had with her, and the way I value women in general ? What does that suggest about her that she may have chosen to date me at some point ? See all the potential ramifications ?

However let's say I am actually the most generous and genuine and innocent person you could imagine, and this girl is sincere, caring, genuine too, etc. She really is a catch of a lifetime, and even though it looks like I'm completely devaluing and trivializing humanity and serious relationships by my actions ... for each person who passes the opportunity they are truly passing up an opportunity. Let's say someone figures this out, and decides to go for it. "Give me her number, I'll call her ..."

What happens if that person never gets her to answer her phone, call him back, return the texts, etc ? IOW ... for all intent and purposes, that person never sees one shred the girl even existed ? Should I keep telling him not to give up, she really is great ? Let's say this person begins to do some research ... and come to find out, there are a LOT of people who claim to have dated her. But also a lot of people who claim to have tried and never saw proof she was even real either. They are disappointed, angry, disillusioned ... they were lead on, only to be disappointed. Let's say some people even gave all they had in a leap of chance to make this girl their one in a million ... and they got nothing but broken hopes.

See some of the issues with playing matchmaker uninvited ? Are you limiting their freedom ? Not necessarily, they still have choices to respond to your marketing strategies. But will YOU take any responsibility when things fall through, or are you going to blame them or this girl who never seems to show her face to them ?

Now ... think back to someone you actually loved in your life. Someone you actually treasured, valued, cared for deeply and they you. I'm guessing you had intimacy on some level ... even if it wasn't physical, it could have been deeply personal and emotional. You connected in a way that the two of you shared things with each other because you trusted each other in certain ways. Through experience and time, you built a relationship, earning trust, finding common ground, exploring what it means to love and be loved. Now ... did you EVER treat this person like I described above ? Did you go around telling everyone their secrets, trying to force others to have relationships with them ? Did you run around showing pics of her naked, etc ? People that do that kinda thing, are typically more about bragging rights. Not someone they love, may be jealous over, etc. Typically. What it would say if you were casting those pearls like that ?

This is actually simpler than I thought it was.

The love of the father is the love of the people for the child, embodied in the Son (that conceals Himself from view, that the child may be revealed).

The love of the lover is the love of the world for the lovers, disembodied by the Devil (for the truth to be known, that the son of the Devil may come forth).

So you are creating an opposition that is as old as time itself, in the reverse direction to the morality of allowing the mystery to flourish - which is false.

Perhaps you did not know you were doing this, but the fact is that if you were trying to defend God (instead of critiquing the mere place of Him, as if to destabilize that which is above reality) you would have at least questioned whether taking that approach was really in everyone's interests (which defending, in principle, one's right to establish universal order in the Name of the Revelation of the Son, which is the foundation of society, through example - by defending God (the peak example (of examples)) - is)

I mean I don't think you are being fair, suggesting that false morality is equally as relevant as true morality, for the sake of argument - I am not making a mere argument, I am trying to adopt a way of life that is informed by the consequence of developing arguments that point to Christ.
 
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TillICollapse

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Not to put a fly in the ointment that doesn't need to be there, but does it bother any one if I point out that you have shifted the mystery of the box from that which may or may not relate to God to a mystery which is only about people?

I am still thinking about what was said, for the moment.
The mystery of the box isn't only about the people, it can also be about the contents of the box as well as MYSTERY itself. As in, the nature of mystery and it's effect on our imagination, our creative process, our destructiveness, etc. Some people will focus on the people aspect, others will focus on the mystery aspect, others will do a combo. Some will see something supernatural or they may see "God" concerning the box. It's not only about one thing or another.

The mystery box is a practical mystery (since it can be shown to exist and have an effect) which asks no questions. To claim it's only about one thing or another, may be your claim. Not the boxes. The box is just sitting there with a single symbol: a question mark.

This is actually simpler than I thought it was.

The love of the father is the love of the people for the child, embodied in the Son (that conceals Himself from view, that the child may be revealed).

The love of the lover is the love of the world for the lovers, disembodied by the Devil (for the truth to be known, that the son of the Devil may come forth).
I'm not totally sure I understand what you are getting at, because I'm not sure how all of your remarks here relate back to the section you're quoting of mine.

If you are essentially saying I was describing love from a wordily POV verses one from "the love of the father" POV, then my response is:

I was describing love from the point of view of someone who values the relationship. It's not about protecting the other person necessarily, it's about valuing the relationship and something that people often do in relationships on various levels: we hold something sacred. Sacred as in, something that is for us only and not to be shared with others because we value it that way and it's deeply personal to our very being/core/etc: "sacred".

So you are creating an opposition that is as old as time itself, in the reverse direction to the morality of allowing the mystery to flourish - which is false.
If in this part you are speaking to the mystery box: the mystery flourishes. Who is preventing it from flourishing ? Straw men suck btw.

Perhaps you did not know you were doing this, but the fact is that if you were trying to defend God (instead of critiquing the mere place of Him, as if to destabilize that which is above reality) you would have at least questioned whether taking that approach was really in everyone's interests (which defending, in principle, one's right to establish universal order in the Name of the Revelation of the Son, which is the foundation of society, through example - by defending God (the peak example (of examples)) - is)
I'm not sure if you're speaking to the box, or my comments concerning a relationship. Depending on which one you were speaking to, if you could further clarify these comments that would be appreciated.

I mean I don't think you are being fair, suggesting that false morality is equally as relevant as true morality, for the sake of argument - I am not making a mere argument, I am trying to adopt a way of life that is informed by the consequence of developing arguments that point to Christ.
I'm not sure what this is speaking to either, which aspects of my comments you are pointing out. And I'm trying to look past your ad homs and straw men. Concerning whether or not false morality is equally as relevant as true morality ... I think it was Stephen Colbert who said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias." Whether you, or I, or anyone thinks we can nail down "true" morality over "false" morality, the REALITY is that people don't always agree on what is true or false concerning morality. And this disagreement perpetuates. They are relevant because they are an aspect of our society.

Concerning wanting to adapt a way of life informed by the consequence of developing arguments that point to Christ ... it's my understanding that Christ healed the sick, cast out demons, raised the dead, performed miracles, spent time with those whom were outcast in the society, taught others about the Kingdom He came from and His Father, etc and so forth. Do you do these things ? When I see him "developing arguments" it appears it's often in regards to the religious of his day whom he sometimes called "children of the devil". Are your arguments geared towards the religious and helping them to see the errors of their ways ? Finally, I believe Jesus dying for the sin of the people, taking their sin upon Himself out of love for them ... I believe this is common to most people's understanding of Him, yes ? Have you done this ? Have you given your life for the sins of others ? If not, then what do you mean about "adopting a way of life that points to Christ" ?
 
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TillICollapse

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I need some time to think about what you said.
No prob, I don't usually expect immediate replies.

It's very cheap to twist a complaint about staying on topic, to a self-reflexive accusation of self-justification.
I have no idea what you're speaking in reference to here.
 
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Paradoxum

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Well done :) ... I knew when I asked that question and opened the door for a response, you may come back with, "No, you suck" or "I still don't like it, I hate you" etc. I told myself that if you responded with something like that, then I could never type out what I would want to say in return hahahaha :)

What would you want to say in return? Tell me!

:D
 
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