Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
But gideon, brother what does Paul say in Romans 6?
By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:2, 3, 6, 11 ESV)
Consider yourselves dead.... Consider is a mental word... If you are considering something that means you are THINKING about it right?
Furthermore Paul says here (as in the whole passge I just shortened it for brevity sake) and even in Colossians 3:1-3 that we DIED with Christ, past tense... It has already happened right? That is why we must consider ourselves dead to the old nature and in the new. It is a frame of mind because we have already been placed in Christ by faith.
Saying I must put off my old nature first before I can think on the Spirit is actually a legalistic way of saying I must accomplish what Christ has already done for me. Paul says that here in Romans 6 even in Colossians 3, when we were joined to Christ we died at that moment to our old nature, we must consider it so before we can walk in that newness of life.
Why do you thinking advertising is so important in society and television markets? Because i you can plant that image of the juicy cheeseburger in the mind of viewers they will want a cheeseburger right? How many times has that happened to us? You watch your favorite team or show and see something advertised and then desire it? It targetting our thought process. The world already knows what Paul was trying to say, what is in the mind affects the actions. It science even. The brain affects behavior.
If I fill my mind with the old nature and its sinful tendencies I will live with incredible temptation. If I fill my mind with things of the Spirit I walk in the newness of life Christ has given me. The problem is remaining focused on Christ because that old nature is powerful and always fighting to come back to life. Just like Peter when he walked on water. When he was mindful of Christ and had his attention on Him, he was fine. When he put his focus on things around him and realized what he was doing (walking on water a humanistic impossible thing) then he sank.
Be mindful of Christ! Think on the Spirit!
Frog I just dont understand how admonishing other believers to make Christ the center of their focus as being a work that God does not approve of. We either fill our minds with the world and by virtue the old nature or the Spirit and the new nature... There is no in between there...
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks to the Father for everything... IMHO it is always being mindful of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...
Paul says in Romans 8:5-8 that the carnal mind is set against God so the spiritual mind is the opposite... 1 Corinthians 2:6-16
Ps 78:1 Listen, O my people, to my instruction; In cline your ears to the words of my mouhth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.
Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Reading this thread, even from the beginning, it seem that it has all become too complicated to be of much good. It's like someone trying to discipher a parable meant for a child by using modern decoding methods. So the message comes out cryptic, confussing, obscure, and mystic.
It's really a very simple message. We need to listen to the Lord. God is spirit, and so we need to use our spiritual eyes and ears. When we do that we hear the words the Lord speaks to us.
For example; taking off the old man and putting on the new simply means stop leaning on our understanding and start listening to the small voice of the Lord, because He is the New Man in us, if we have choosen to ask Him in. Of course if we are not willing to listen to Him, He might as well speak to us in parables and dark saying so we can see that all our great intellegence doesn't amount to a hill of beans to Him.
So we are not talking a paradingm shift (A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share") - We are talking about our Lord being with us so we can have conversations with Him. It's that simple.
So we are not living by the Law (a set of rules), and we are not living by our flesh (what we think), we are living our life by having conversations with the Lord our God all the day through. And since He is Lord, we are going to get some instructions from the Lord. This is not rocket science, and we are not trying to be a scientific community which we alone share the information. We are trying to telling the world about Jesus Christ and the personal relationship we have with Him.
This thread reminds me of a saying the Lord once told me:
Three wise men were walking down the road, and I mean really wise men. They all knew the Lord. The first heard, See no evil, the second heard, Hear no evil, the third heard Speak no evil.. So one refused see, and one refused to hear, and one refused to speak.
It amazes me that we can become wise and find the Lord, then go back to leaning on our own understanding. Of course I do it too. We all blow in the wind, but that doesn't mean we should stop hearng the Lord by faith.
Ps 78:1 Listen, O my people, to my instruction; In cline your ears to the words of my mouhth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.
Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Reading this thread, even from the beginning, it seem that it has all become too complicated to be of much good. It's like someone trying to discipher a parable meant for a child by using modern decoding methods. So the message comes out cryptic, confussing, obscure, and mystic.
It's really a very simple message. We need to listen to the Lord. God is spirit, and so we need to use our spiritual eyes and ears. When we do that we hear the words the Lord speaks to us.
For example; taking off the old man and putting on the new simply means stop leaning on our understanding and start listening to the small voice of the Lord, because He is the New Man in us, if we have choosen to ask Him in. Of course if we are not willing to listen to Him, He might as well speak to us in parables and dark saying so we can see that all our great intellegence doesn't amount to a hill of beans to Him.
So we are not talking a paradingm shift (A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share") - We are talking about our Lord being with us so we can have conversations with Him. It's that simple.
So we are not living by the Law (a set of rules), and we are not living by our flesh (what we think), we are living our life by having conversations with the Lord our God all the day through. And since He is Lord, we are going to get some instructions from the Lord. This is not rocket science, and we are not trying to be a scientific community which we alone share the information. We are trying to telling the world about Jesus Christ and the personal relationship we have with Him.
This thread reminds me of a saying the Lord once told me:
Three wise men were walking down the road, and I mean really wise men. They all knew the Lord. The first heard, “See no evil”, the second heard, “Hear no evil”, the third heard “Speak no evil.”. So one refused see, and one refused to hear, and one refused to speak.
It amazes me that we can become wise and find the Lord, then go back to leaning on our own understanding. Of course I do it too. We all blow in the wind, but that doesn't mean we should stop hearng the Lord by faith.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned..
I've not met many people, believers or otherwise who would deny their sin nature. The vast majority of people are willing to admit they have made mistakes (just another word for sin). Here we all knew that at one point, and knew that we had to be made right with God, for "the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23) We had to be rescued from our sinfulness that we inherited from Adam. Just as Paul wrote in Romans 5, that was an characteristic/personality trait that we inherited from our father, Adam. When a child is born into the world, we like to look at them and decide whose eyes they have, who's facial features, etc... This is because we all understand the concept of genetic inheritance and that we pass our DNA and personalities and characteristics to our children. This concept in the natural mirrors the concept in the spiritual and that is what Paul describes in Romans 5. Adam sinned and as a result, sin passed from him to all of us, that is our spiritual inheritance. THANKS ADAM! The one who is stuck in this frame of mind will exhibit all the fruits of the flesh as described by Paul in Galatians 5:19-21, The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But this is not a discussion about our fallen nature that we inherited from Adam so let me get to where I'm going here:
Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive Gods abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
Paul doesn't stop writing after he describes our fallen nature and where it comes from and what results from it. Praise God it didn't end there. You see, when we believed in Christ, we received new birth by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3, 16; John 11:26; Acts 16:31). Born into the family of God, with God Himself becoming our Father (Romans 8:15; Gal 4:5-7). As a result of this process, we become co-heirs with Christ of the inheritance of God (Acts 20:32; Romans 8:17; Gal 4:7; Eph 3:6; 2 Tim 2:12; Titus 3:7; Heb 1:2; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 21:7). We are literally created brand new by Christ through our faith in Him (2 Cor 5:17). Just as your natural birth resulted in you being born into sin and resulting in condemnation; your spiritual new birth (being born again) results in you receiving the very righteousness of Christ and eternal life. (2 Cor 5:21; John 3:16) So what does this have to do with us outside of another bible post that most here probably already know?
Christians that I have met and known seem to have this one very big problem that I am sure drives Jesus up the wall of New Jerusalem when He hears us talking about it. SIN When we talk about sin it shows that our minds have been occupied (even if not entirely) with our flesh and our old nature. A nature that we put to death when we believed (Romans 6:1-14) I think Paul brings this out perfectly in Romans 7 when he has an almost amusing conversation with himself about his sin nature and how it came to be. He describes that our sin nature, our flesh, is brought to life through a realization of what the Law says and is. The Law is of course Gods standard of holiness and righteous, something that no one other than Jesus Christ could ever or has ever kept in perfection (Romans 3:10, 23). It is a frame of mind, he said when the commandment came, knowledge of sin came with it for he did not know what coveting was until he heard, Do not covet (Romans 7:7-8). Then he realized just how sinful and dead he was for he knew at that point he could not keep the law for one who keeps the whole law except by one point is guilty of it all (James 2:10). We actually give sin power over us by pondering on it, by dwelling on it, even on its effect on our lives and past. I believe that Paul is describing this almost, for he immediately goes into what our frame of mind should be as believers in Romans 8.
Romans 8:5-8 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to Gods law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
To walk with the Spirit, the first thing we must do is allow Him to dominate our thoughts. If we think on and ponder our sins we allow our flesh to have power over us. Come out of that way of thinking! Thank God for all He has done for you! Let His praise ever be on your lips. Pray always in the Spirit with known and unknown languages (Ps 34; Ps 103; Jude 20; 1 Thes 5:16-18; Phil 4:4)
Colossians 3:1-4 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Some years later when writing to the Colossians Paul reinterates his point to them that we must set our minds, our thoughts on things above, things in the Spirit. Why? Well here he even gives a reason, because we have died (with Christ Gal 2:20). We have died to our sin nature (Romans 6:1-14) and are not to give it any room to breathe and become re-invigorated (Romans 7). Set your mind on things of the Spirit Christian! Do not give your flesh any opportunity for sin! (Gal 5:13; Eph 4:27)
Those who live in accordance with the Spirit, or as the NLT says those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. Galatians 5:16-18, So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Walk, be controlled by the Spirit, and you will NOT satisfy your flesh. Life or death? We choose, it starts with our mind, our thoughts! Let the Spirit control your thoughts, let Him guide your way of thinking. Let love, joy, patience, peace, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faith, and self-control flow out of you as you set you mind upon the heavenly glory that will be revealed in you when Christ returns to this earth.
It starts with a paradigm shift. Perhaps youve tried to model your life after Christ but just cant seem to make it work. Well perhaps, this was meant for you! Sin seems to come at all times, even when we say we dont want it. But make no mistake about it Christian, we decide to sin, it is not something that just happens. We sin because we take our eyes, our MIND off Christ and upon our fleshly desires, for holiness and sin can NOT cohabitate together. I beg you dear brothers and sisters, if this is you, ask the Holy Spirit to forgive you of allowing your thoughts to be dominated by your flesh and its desires. Ask Him then to take control then let Him! As I said, thank God always for His goodness and mercy! Praise Him always and forever! Pray at all times under the Spirits promptings in known and unknown languages! See how quickly the Holy Spirit will turn what you thought was a hopeless situation into a glorious exhibition of Gods power! All because you thought He was able.
Oh Holy Spirit, forgive me of setting my mind upon my sinful desires! Wash me thoroughly from my iniquities and forgive my sins. I ask You to do what You were sent for. Remind me of Christ. Remind me that I am righteous in Him and Him alone! Fill me with joy and gladness! Help me set my mind upon You and the things that are above that I have in Christ! Amen.
did Paul always rejoice? Nope, he was troubled alot, perplexed, pressed down, acted out of fear also. In fact he worried daily about the church, 2 cor 11:28.
It's really not complicated at all, only those who are hard to understand or agree are making it seem so... This isn't a thread about listening to the voice of the Lord, which I agree we should be doing, but that voice will NEVER contradict the written revelation of God's Word. EVER! I honestly didn't expect you to understand brother as I know you've said in the past that the audible voice is what we need to pay attention to not the revelatory Word (aka the Bible) That view alone is what puts so many Charismatics in hot water, we need to test all things, hold fast to what is good and reject the bad. The naysayers have come out, and are making this more difficult than it has to be.
I don't understand, I've literally listed MULTIPLE passages that support what I have brought here and all I hear in return are one or two verses from different posters about something that has nothing to do with the OP, concerning setting our mind on the Spirit. That is an action that we are admonished to do, not a recommendation that if it's convenient or if we pray enough for it.
Perhaps I could have used a different word for paradigm, but I meant it in the sense of our frame of mind or way of thinking, that is all. If that caused issues I'm sorry
We need to test the spirits, and we know that the Lord tells us to read and study the Scriptures, but are you right in your conclusion it is not paying attention to the Bible that put so many Christians into hot water?
What we see in the Bible is that the religious leaders were the one causing the Lord His greatest troubles when He came. And Paul had as much the same experience. My friend, it is leaning on our understanding that gets us in hot water!!
So you've never heard me say to not read and study the Bible. The very first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible". But it was never my understanding that was right, rather it was His. So I have to listen to Him!
And when I am listening to Him, He makes things clear. You know, I have never heard Him use the phrase "Paradigm Shift". He just doesn't talk like that. He talks in parables, but He is not complicated. He makes things simple and understandable.
So if indeed our mind is set on the Spirit, things are simple and understandable, and that is not what I saw in the Op.
He once told me:
WHAT TEACHER DOESNT PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DONT TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!
That is simple. That is how He talks. It's a little saying that gives understanding. It is not a a science, and we are not a scientific community, like in a paradigm shift. We are a people trying to follow our Lord.
But gideon, brother what does Paul say in Romans 6?
By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:2, 3, 6, 11 ESV)
Consider yourselves dead.... Consider is a mental word... If you are considering something that means you are THINKING about it right?
Furthermore Paul says here (as in the whole passge I just shortened it for brevity sake) and even in Colossians 3:1-3 that we DIED with Christ, past tense... It has already happened right? That is why we must consider ourselves dead to the old nature and in the new. It is a frame of mind because we have already been placed in Christ by faith.
Saying I must put off my old nature first before I can think on the Spirit is actually a legalistic way of saying I must accomplish what Christ has already done for me. Paul says that here in Romans 6 even in Colossians 3, when we were joined to Christ we died at that moment to our old nature, we must consider it so before we can walk in that newness of life.
Why do you thinking advertising is so important in society and television markets? Because i you can plant that image of the juicy cheeseburger in the mind of viewers they will want a cheeseburger right? How many times has that happened to us? You watch your favorite team or show and see something advertised and then desire it? It targetting our thought process. The world already knows what Paul was trying to say, what is in the mind affects the actions. It science even. The brain affects behavior.
If I fill my mind with the old nature and its sinful tendencies I will live with incredible temptation. If I fill my mind with things of the Spirit I walk in the newness of life Christ has given me. The problem is remaining focused on Christ because that old nature is powerful and always fighting to come back to life. Just like Peter when he walked on water. When he was mindful of Christ and had his attention on Him, he was fine. When he put his focus on things around him and realized what he was doing (walking on water a humanistic impossible thing) then he sank.
Be mindful of Christ! Think on the Spirit!
Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Thes 1:2 We always thank God for you all and always mention you in our prayers.
1 Cor 1:4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.
Philemon 1:4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers,
Philippians 1:3-4 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy,
Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
So I guess Paul was a hypocrite then? He sure rejoiced and praised God in that Philippian Jail Cell with Silas, a situation in which most of us honestly would be like "Why in the world am I here God?" Not singing "Amazing Grace" (or whatever song he and Silas were rejoicing with)... So loud in fact that all the prisoners heard them! Even the foundations of the jail heard them and shook because of their praise and rejoicing... So I don't understand where you're coming from?
Perhaps the reason Paul could operate in spite of his fear was he had a heavenly perspective that always "fixed [his] eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." (Hebrews 12:2)
Frog and gideon... I love you both to death for real..
We just aren't agreeing on this one and that is okay for brothers not to agree...
Gideon, you're fineI'm not holding anything against you
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?