A paradigm shift

[Frogster]

But gideon, brother what does Paul say in Romans 6?

By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:2, 3, 6, 11 ESV)

Consider yourselves dead.... Consider is a mental word... If you are considering something that means you are THINKING about it right?

Furthermore Paul says here (as in the whole passge I just shortened it for brevity sake) and even in Colossians 3:1-3 that we DIED with Christ, past tense... It has already happened right? That is why we must consider ourselves dead to the old nature and in the new. It is a frame of mind because we have already been placed in Christ by faith.

Saying I must put off my old nature first before I can think on the Spirit is actually a legalistic way of saying I must accomplish what Christ has already done for me. Paul says that here in Romans 6 even in Colossians 3, when we were joined to Christ we died at that moment to our old nature, we must consider it so before we can walk in that newness of life.
Why do you thinking advertising is so important in society and television markets? Because i you can plant that image of the juicy cheeseburger in the mind of viewers they will want a cheeseburger right? How many times has that happened to us? You watch your favorite team or show and see something advertised and then desire it? It targetting our thought process. The world already knows what Paul was trying to say, what is in the mind affects the actions. It science even. The brain affects behavior.

If I fill my mind with the old nature and its sinful tendencies I will live with incredible temptation. If I fill my mind with things of the Spirit I walk in the newness of life Christ has given me. The problem is remaining focused on Christ because that old nature is powerful and always fighting to come back to life. Just like Peter when he walked on water. When he was mindful of Christ and had his attention on Him, he was fine. When he put his focus on things around him and realized what he was doing (walking on water a humanistic impossible thing) then he sank.
Be mindful of Christ! Think on the Spirit!

good point on red above..

yet the green above anyone could say using any philosophy, it is man centered, it is like those people who teach that whatever I think about will happen, that negates his power, because the victory only comes via my mindset.

who is at the center in the green above?

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Frog I just dont understand how admonishing other believers to make Christ the center of their focus as being a work that God does not approve of. We either fill our minds with the world and by virtue the old nature or the Spirit and the new nature... There is no in between there...

 

[turned around]

Hi,
Here's a question what does it mean to be spiritually minded?

 

[Frogster]

Frog I just dont understand how admonishing other believers to make Christ the center of their focus as being a work that God does not approve of. We either fill our minds with the world and by virtue the old nature or the Spirit and the new nature... There is no in between there...

well...there is nothing really wrong with it on it's own merits, sounds nice, sounds like it makes sense, it's just that the empahsis is on man, not the power or grace doing it. An unsaved basketball coach can admonish, but his admonishment is not directing the player to the higher power. He is saying be strong, you do it, Paul is saying be weak He does it.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks to the Father for everything... IMHO it is always being mindful of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...

Paul says in Romans 8:5-8 that the carnal mind is set against God so the spiritual mind is the opposite... 1 Corinthians 2:6-16

 

[Frogster]

Hi,
Here's a question what does it mean to be spiritually minded?

not carnally minded.

 

[Frogster]

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks to the Father for everything... IMHO it is always being mindful of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...

Paul says in Romans 8:5-8 that the carnal mind is set against God so the spiritual mind is the opposite... 1 Corinthians 2:6-16

did Paul always rejoice? Nope, he was troubled alot, perplexed, pressed down, acted out of fear also. In fact he worried daily about the church, 2 cor 11:28.

So do we want a basketball coach, or power within?

there ia a wide truth spectrum in the bible, the elementals, and the transcendant, the high end of the doctrine, and the base. Sure, i might say to a guy, stop that, get on Christ!

ok fine, imminent verse, a quick imperative, but then what? What about all of the indicatives in the text? What is the highest end of the doctrine, Him or me in the power seat?

 

[Frogster]

even Paul years later was still learning it was not about him, "this happened so" as some bibles word it.


9 Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead.

he had to wait on resurrection power, not his own strength.

 

[K2K]

Ps 78:1 Listen, O my people, to my instruction; In cline your ears to the words of my mouhth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Reading this thread, even from the beginning, it seem that it has all become too complicated to be of much good. It's like someone trying to discipher a parable meant for a child by using modern decoding methods. So the message comes out cryptic, confussing, obscure, and mystic.

It's really a very simple message. We need to listen to the Lord. God is spirit, and so we need to use our spiritual eyes and ears. When we do that we hear the words the Lord speaks to us.

For example; taking off the old man and putting on the new simply means stop leaning on our understanding and start listening to the small voice of the Lord, because He is the New Man in us, if we have choosen to ask Him in. Of course if we are not willing to listen to Him, He might as well speak to us in parables and dark saying so we can see that all our great intellegence doesn't amount to a hill of beans to Him.

So we are not talking a paradingm shift (A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share") - We are talking about our Lord being with us so we can have conversations with Him. It's that simple.

So we are not living by the Law (a set of rules), and we are not living by our flesh (what we think), we are living our life by having conversations with the Lord our God all the day through. And since He is Lord, we are going to get some instructions from the Lord. This is not rocket science, and we are not trying to be a scientific community which we alone share the information. We are trying to telling the world about Jesus Christ and the personal relationship we have with Him.


This thread reminds me of a saying the Lord once told me:

Three wise men were walking down the road, and I mean really wise men. They all knew the Lord. The first heard, “See no evil”, the second heard, “Hear no evil”, the third heard “Speak no evil.”. So one refused see, and one refused to hear, and one refused to speak.

It amazes me that we can become wise and find the Lord, then go back to leaning on our own understanding. Of course I do it too. We all blow in the wind, but that doesn't mean we should stop hearng the Lord by faith.

 

[Frogster]

Ps 78:1 Listen, O my people, to my instruction; In cline your ears to the words of my mouhth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Reading this thread, even from the beginning, it seem that it has all become too complicated to be of much good. It's like someone trying to discipher a parable meant for a child by using modern decoding methods. So the message comes out cryptic, confussing, obscure, and mystic.

It's really a very simple message. We need to listen to the Lord. God is spirit, and so we need to use our spiritual eyes and ears. When we do that we hear the words the Lord speaks to us.

For example; taking off the old man and putting on the new simply means stop leaning on our understanding and start listening to the small voice of the Lord, because He is the New Man in us, if we have choosen to ask Him in. Of course if we are not willing to listen to Him, He might as well speak to us in parables and dark saying so we can see that all our great intellegence doesn't amount to a hill of beans to Him.

So we are not talking a paradingm shift (A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share") - We are talking about our Lord being with us so we can have conversations with Him. It's that simple.

So we are not living by the Law (a set of rules), and we are not living by our flesh (what we think), we are living our life by having conversations with the Lord our God all the day through. And since He is Lord, we are going to get some instructions from the Lord. This is not rocket science, and we are not trying to be a scientific community which we alone share the information. We are trying to telling the world about Jesus Christ and the personal relationship we have with Him.


This thread reminds me of a saying the Lord once told me:

Three wise men were walking down the road, and I mean really wise men. They all knew the Lord. The first heard, “See no evil”, the second heard, “Hear no evil”, the third heard “Speak no evil.”. So one refused see, and one refused to hear, and one refused to speak.

It amazes me that we can become wise and find the Lord, then go back to leaning on our own understanding. Of course I do it too. We all blow in the wind, but that doesn't mean we should stop hearng the Lord by faith.

interesting points, and the do and don't verses, that are true, and are there, can become law by principle, even though they are not the 10 commandments.

the basketball coach is strengthening willpower, human effort, law, be good you win, be bad you loose the game, the victory or defeat is on the person, not the Spirit. The Spirit says walk in my power, people are weak, as they will sooner or later learn after the basketball coach looses his role in ones life.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Ps 78:1 Listen, O my people, to my instruction; In cline your ears to the words of my mouhth. I will open my mouth in a parable; I will utter dark sayings of old.

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

Reading this thread, even from the beginning, it seem that it has all become too complicated to be of much good. It's like someone trying to discipher a parable meant for a child by using modern decoding methods. So the message comes out cryptic, confussing, obscure, and mystic.

It's really a very simple message. We need to listen to the Lord. God is spirit, and so we need to use our spiritual eyes and ears. When we do that we hear the words the Lord speaks to us.

For example; taking off the old man and putting on the new simply means stop leaning on our understanding and start listening to the small voice of the Lord, because He is the New Man in us, if we have choosen to ask Him in. Of course if we are not willing to listen to Him, He might as well speak to us in parables and dark saying so we can see that all our great intellegence doesn't amount to a hill of beans to Him.

So we are not talking a paradingm shift (A paradigm shift (or revolutionary science) is, according to Thomas Kuhn, in his influential book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), a change in the basic assumptions, or paradigms, within the ruling theory of science. It is in contrast to his idea of normal science. According to Kuhn, "A paradigm is what members of a scientific community, and they alone, share") - We are talking about our Lord being with us so we can have conversations with Him. It's that simple.

So we are not living by the Law (a set of rules), and we are not living by our flesh (what we think), we are living our life by having conversations with the Lord our God all the day through. And since He is Lord, we are going to get some instructions from the Lord. This is not rocket science, and we are not trying to be a scientific community which we alone share the information. We are trying to telling the world about Jesus Christ and the personal relationship we have with Him.


This thread reminds me of a saying the Lord once told me:

Three wise men were walking down the road, and I mean really wise men. They all knew the Lord. The first heard, “See no evil”, the second heard, “Hear no evil”, the third heard “Speak no evil.”. So one refused see, and one refused to hear, and one refused to speak.

It amazes me that we can become wise and find the Lord, then go back to leaning on our own understanding. Of course I do it too. We all blow in the wind, but that doesn't mean we should stop hearng the Lord by faith.

It's really not complicated at all, only those who are hard to understand or agree are making it seem so... This isn't a thread about listening to the voice of the Lord, which I agree we should be doing, but that voice will NEVER contradict the written revelation of God's Word. EVER! I honestly didn't expect you to understand brother as I know you've said in the past that the audible voice is what we need to pay attention to not the revelatory Word (aka the Bible) That view alone is what puts so many Charismatics in hot water, we need to test all things, hold fast to what is good and reject the bad. The naysayers have come out, and are making this more difficult than it has to be.

I don't understand, I've literally listed MULTIPLE passages that support what I have brought here and all I hear in return are one or two verses from different posters about something that has nothing to do with the OP, concerning setting our mind on the Spirit. That is an action that we are admonished to do, not a recommendation that if it's convenient or if we pray enough for it.

Perhaps I could have used a different word for paradigm, but I meant it in the sense of our frame of mind or way of thinking, that is all. If that caused issues I'm sorry

 

[Giver]

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned..

I've not met many people, believers or otherwise who would deny their sin nature. The vast majority of people are willing to admit they have made mistakes (just another word for sin). Here we all knew that at one point, and knew that we had to be made right with God, for "the wages of sin is death..." (Romans 6:23) We had to be rescued from our sinfulness that we inherited from Adam. Just as Paul wrote in Romans 5, that was an characteristic/personality trait that we inherited from our father, Adam. When a child is born into the world, we like to look at them and decide whose eyes they have, who's facial features, etc... This is because we all understand the concept of genetic inheritance and that we pass our DNA and personalities and characteristics to our children. This concept in the natural mirrors the concept in the spiritual and that is what Paul describes in Romans 5. Adam sinned and as a result, sin passed from him to all of us, that is our spiritual inheritance. THANKS ADAM! The one who is stuck in this frame of mind will exhibit all the fruits of the flesh as described by Paul in Galatians 5:19-21, “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” But this is not a discussion about our fallen nature that we inherited from Adam so let me get to where I'm going here:

Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Paul doesn't stop writing after he describes our fallen nature and where it comes from and what results from it. Praise God it didn't end there. You see, when we believed in Christ, we received new birth by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3, 16; John 11:26; Acts 16:31). Born into the family of God, with God Himself becoming our Father (Romans 8:15; Gal 4:5-7). As a result of this process, we become co-heirs with Christ of the inheritance of God (Acts 20:32; Romans 8:17; Gal 4:7; Eph 3:6; 2 Tim 2:12; Titus 3:7; Heb 1:2; 1 Peter 1:4; Revelation 21:7). We are literally created brand new by Christ through our faith in Him (2 Cor 5:17). Just as your natural birth resulted in you being born into sin and resulting in condemnation; your spiritual new birth (being born again) results in you receiving the very righteousness of Christ and eternal life. (2 Cor 5:21; John 3:16) So what does this have to do with us outside of another bible post that most here probably already know?

Christians that I have met and known seem to have this one very big problem that I am sure drives Jesus up the wall of New Jerusalem when He hears us talking about it. SIN… When we talk about sin it shows that our minds have been occupied (even if not entirely) with our flesh and our old nature. A nature that we put to death when we believed (Romans 6:1-14) I think Paul brings this out perfectly in Romans 7 when he has an almost amusing conversation with himself about his sin nature and how it came to be. He describes that our sin nature, our flesh, is brought to life through a realization of what the Law says and is. The Law is of course God’s standard of holiness and righteous, something that no one other than Jesus Christ could ever or has ever kept in perfection (Romans 3:10, 23). It is a frame of mind, he said when the commandment came, knowledge of sin came with it for he did not know what coveting was until he heard, Do not covet (Romans 7:7-8). Then he realized just how sinful and dead he was for he knew at that point he could not keep the law for one who keeps the whole law except by one point is guilty of it all (James 2:10). We actually give sin power over us by pondering on it, by dwelling on it, even on its effect on our lives and past. I believe that Paul is describing this almost, for he immediately goes into what our frame of mind should be as believers in Romans 8.

Romans 8:5-8 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

To walk with the Spirit, the first thing we must do is allow Him to dominate our thoughts. If we think on and ponder our sins we allow our flesh to have power over us. Come out of that way of thinking! Thank God for all He has done for you! Let His praise ever be on your lips. Pray always in the Spirit with known and unknown languages (Ps 34; Ps 103; Jude 20; 1 Thes 5:16-18; Phil 4:4)

Colossians 3:1-4 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Some years later when writing to the Colossians Paul reinterates his point to them that we must set our minds, our thoughts on things above, things in the Spirit. Why? Well here he even gives a reason, because we have died (with Christ Gal 2:20). We have died to our sin nature (Romans 6:1-14) and are not to give it any room to breathe and become re-invigorated (Romans 7). Set your mind on things of the Spirit Christian! Do not give your flesh any opportunity for sin! (Gal 5:13; Eph 4:27)

Those who live in accordance with the Spirit, or as the NLT says “those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit.” Galatians 5:16-18, “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.” Walk, be controlled by the Spirit, and you will NOT satisfy your flesh. Life or death? We choose, it starts with our mind, our thoughts! Let the Spirit control your thoughts, let Him guide your way of thinking. Let love, joy, patience, peace, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faith, and self-control flow out of you as you set you mind upon the heavenly glory that will be revealed in you when Christ returns to this earth.

It starts with a paradigm shift. Perhaps you’ve tried to model your life after Christ but just can’t seem to make it work. Well perhaps, this was meant for you! Sin seems to come at all times, even when we say we don’t want it. But make no mistake about it Christian, we decide to sin, it is not something that just happens. We sin because we take our eyes, our MIND off Christ and upon our fleshly desires, for holiness and sin can NOT cohabitate together. I beg you dear brothers and sisters, if this is you, ask the Holy Spirit to forgive you of allowing your thoughts to be dominated by your flesh and it’s desires. Ask Him then to take control then let Him! As I said, thank God always for His goodness and mercy! Praise Him always and forever! Pray at all times under the Spirit’s promptings in known and unknown languages! See how quickly the Holy Spirit will turn what you thought was a hopeless situation into a glorious exhibition of God’s power! All because you thought He was able.

Oh Holy Spirit, forgive me of setting my mind upon my sinful desires! Wash me thoroughly from my iniquities and forgive my sins. I ask You to do what You were sent for. Remind me of Christ. Remind me that I am righteous in Him and Him alone! Fill me with joy and gladness! Help me set my mind upon You and the things that are above that I have in Christ! Amen.

So you believe Paul got it wrong, is that right?

(Romans 8: 3-4) “he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”
My be you believe the Holy Spirit dictates one to sin?

(Romans 6: 1-2) “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

You must also believe John got it wrong, could you really believe that?

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Lastly you must also believe that Jesus did not know that living the Father’s will included not sinning.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[ByTheSpirit]

did Paul always rejoice? Nope, he was troubled alot, perplexed, pressed down, acted out of fear also. In fact he worried daily about the church, 2 cor 11:28.

Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Thes 1:2 We always thank God for you all and always mention you in our prayers.

1 Cor 1:4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.

Philemon 1:4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers,

Philippians 1:3-4 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy,

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!

So I guess Paul was a hypocrite then? He sure rejoiced and praised God in that Philippian Jail Cell with Silas, a situation in which most of us honestly would be like "Why in the world am I here God?" Not singing "Amazing Grace" (or whatever song he and Silas were rejoicing with)... So loud in fact that all the prisoners heard them! Even the foundations of the jail heard them and shook because of their praise and rejoicing... So I don't understand where you're coming from?

Perhaps the reason Paul could operate in spite of his fear was he had a heavenly perspective that always "fixed [his] eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." (Hebrews 12:2)

 

[K2K]

It's really not complicated at all, only those who are hard to understand or agree are making it seem so... This isn't a thread about listening to the voice of the Lord, which I agree we should be doing, but that voice will NEVER contradict the written revelation of God's Word. EVER! I honestly didn't expect you to understand brother as I know you've said in the past that the audible voice is what we need to pay attention to not the revelatory Word (aka the Bible) That view alone is what puts so many Charismatics in hot water, we need to test all things, hold fast to what is good and reject the bad. The naysayers have come out, and are making this more difficult than it has to be.

I don't understand, I've literally listed MULTIPLE passages that support what I have brought here and all I hear in return are one or two verses from different posters about something that has nothing to do with the OP, concerning setting our mind on the Spirit. That is an action that we are admonished to do, not a recommendation that if it's convenient or if we pray enough for it.

Perhaps I could have used a different word for paradigm, but I meant it in the sense of our frame of mind or way of thinking, that is all. If that caused issues I'm sorry

We need to test the spirits, and we know that the Lord tells us to read and study the Scriptures, but are you right in your conclusion it is not paying attention to the Bible that put so many Christians into hot water?

What we see in the Bible is that the religious leaders were the one causing the Lord His greatest troubles when He came. And Paul had as much the same experience. My friend, it is leaning on our understanding that gets us in hot water!!

So you've never heard me say to not read and study the Bible. The very first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible". But it was never my understanding that was right, rather it was His. So I have to listen to Him!

And when I am listening to Him, He makes things clear. You know, I have never heard Him use the phrase "Paradigm Shift". He just doesn't talk like that. He talks in parables, but He is not complicated. He makes things simple and understandable.

So if indeed our mind is set on the Spirit, things are simple and understandable, and that is not what I saw in the Op.


He once told me:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

That is simple. That is how He talks. It's a little saying that gives understanding. It is not a a science, and we are not a scientific community, like in a paradigm shift. We are a people trying to follow our Lord.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

We need to test the spirits, and we know that the Lord tells us to read and study the Scriptures, but are you right in your conclusion it is not paying attention to the Bible that put so many Christians into hot water?

What we see in the Bible is that the religious leaders were the one causing the Lord His greatest troubles when He came. And Paul had as much the same experience. My friend, it is leaning on our understanding that gets us in hot water!!

So you've never heard me say to not read and study the Bible. The very first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible". But it was never my understanding that was right, rather it was His. So I have to listen to Him!

And when I am listening to Him, He makes things clear. You know, I have never heard Him use the phrase "Paradigm Shift". He just doesn't talk like that. He talks in parables, but He is not complicated. He makes things simple and understandable.

So if indeed our mind is set on the Spirit, things are simple and understandable, and that is not what I saw in the Op.


He once told me:

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

That is simple. That is how He talks. It's a little saying that gives understanding. It is not a a science, and we are not a scientific community, like in a paradigm shift. We are a people trying to follow our Lord.

*IN RED ABOVE*Clearly you haven't read the book of Revelation. That entire book is a revelation given to John by Jesus Himself and it is VERY COMPLICATED.

I am not asking you to agree with me, and again *IN BLUE ABOVE*That is precisely what I said in my OP and subsequent replies. Only those who are trying to find some very hidden meaning in it are hard to understand.

I didn't say that you have posted "Don't read your Bible" but rather you emphasize the revelatory Word over the Written word. Me and you have discussed that several times here.

This OP, in closing, is exactly for the purpose you stated as highlighted in blue above. Very plain and if it's complicated it's because we have minds of flesh and not spiritually trained ones (1 Corinthians 2:6-16)

May we all receive greater understanding of the things of the Spirit...

 

[gideons300]

But gideon, brother what does Paul say in Romans 6?

By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:2, 3, 6, 11 ESV)

Consider yourselves dead.... Consider is a mental word... If you are considering something that means you are THINKING about it right?

Furthermore Paul says here (as in the whole passge I just shortened it for brevity sake) and even in Colossians 3:1-3 that we DIED with Christ, past tense... It has already happened right? That is why we must consider ourselves dead to the old nature and in the new. It is a frame of mind because we have already been placed in Christ by faith.

Saying I must put off my old nature first before I can think on the Spirit is actually a legalistic way of saying I must accomplish what Christ has already done for me. Paul says that here in Romans 6 even in Colossians 3, when we were joined to Christ we died at that moment to our old nature, we must consider it so before we can walk in that newness of life.

Why do you thinking advertising is so important in society and television markets? Because i you can plant that image of the juicy cheeseburger in the mind of viewers they will want a cheeseburger right? How many times has that happened to us? You watch your favorite team or show and see something advertised and then desire it? It targetting our thought process. The world already knows what Paul was trying to say, what is in the mind affects the actions. It science even. The brain affects behavior.

If I fill my mind with the old nature and its sinful tendencies I will live with incredible temptation. If I fill my mind with things of the Spirit I walk in the newness of life Christ has given me. The problem is remaining focused on Christ because that old nature is powerful and always fighting to come back to life. Just like Peter when he walked on water. When he was mindful of Christ and had his attention on Him, he was fine. When he put his focus on things around him and realized what he was doing (walking on water a humanistic impossible thing) then he sank.

Be mindful of Christ! Think on the Spirit!

Brother, I pray you do not think I am being difficult, LOL. You are a precious poster here and if we disagree, I know love still binds us, amen?

That word that you translated "consider" is actually the banking term "reckon" as in reckon yourself dead to sin. It means to count into assets. We who are His are indeed already dead, and yes, we died with Him, but it will not profit until we add that to our bank account, and put on the new man, having put off the old one.

If our feet are not planted in that soil of the land of promise, never again to go back into the wilderness of unbelief, with a line drawn in the sand that we are NOT the same old man, that sin does NOT have dominion over us, that our shields of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows of the wicked one, then we are left in a double-minded state, and easily tossed to and fro. One minute we determine to walk in the Spirit and set our minds on heavenly things, and the next we are doing things that shame us. Jesus told us to "make our tree good or make it evil". The double minded man will find it impossible to set his affections above, except sporadically.

Our first order of business is to "make our tree good". How? By faith. Paul said that nothing profits but a new creature. That must be the first and foremost thing we must do. We must actively agree with the Spirit as to who we are for two cannot walk together, unless they be agreed, amen?

If our foundation is not firm as to who we are, it matters not what we build upon it, it is just a matter of time before a bad mood, or a down day, or a setback financially, or sickness causes us to stop setting our minds on things of the Spirit. The flesh cannot walk with a single eye. It must first be put off, reckoned dead. The fact that we are light , that our old man is dead, all this is of little value to us if we do not put this truth on and make it OUR truth, our unshakable testimony as to who we are in Christ. It is this path of our faith in the truth growing as we stand in that truth, and continue in it, that empowers us to overcome the world the flesh and the devil.

I can testify only of what I have experienced.....38 years of trying to set my affections on things above and rarely succeeding and then not for long, and lots of bruising defeats. Like a pendulum, I always swung back to my FLESH setting, LOL. We need a new pendulum!

It was not until God appeared to me five years ago and told me the step I had missed, that I have never reckoned myself dead to sin, dead to self, and thus could not walk in who I was, a new creature, that I found the path that worked. This is not theory. It works. Our good fight of faith cannot begin in the wilderness. Just as Israel had to leave forever their unbelief and cross over to the land of promised victory, only then did they begin to see their enemies defeated and the promises come true.

It is when we finally admit that we cannot set our mind on this of the Spirit, unless we have our new spirits put on, that we can finally find the rest that remains for the people of God. I pray this makes sense.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Frogster]

Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Thes 1:2 We always thank God for you all and always mention you in our prayers.

1 Cor 1:4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.

Philemon 1:4 I always thank my God as I remember you in my prayers,

Philippians 1:3-4 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you, always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy,

Philippians 4:4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!

So I guess Paul was a hypocrite then? He sure rejoiced and praised God in that Philippian Jail Cell with Silas, a situation in which most of us honestly would be like "Why in the world am I here God?" Not singing "Amazing Grace" (or whatever song he and Silas were rejoicing with)... So loud in fact that all the prisoners heard them! Even the foundations of the jail heard them and shook because of their praise and rejoicing... So I don't understand where you're coming from?

Perhaps the reason Paul could operate in spite of his fear was he had a heavenly perspective that always "fixed [his] eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." (Hebrews 12:2)

sure, but did he also despair of life, get motivated by fear, get angry, get sarcastic, worried, depressed and suffer?

I mean you're ignoring the rest of the verses.

Ok..again, for there to be weakness, there had to be suffering, and he had to feel it, and live it, or it would not be suffering, and weakness. And he taught from it, and told the Corinthians to learn from it, and the Romans also in Rom 5, so to omit the ramifications of the thorn, the weakness is to ignore alot, while one just looks at the happy verses.


taught it because he lived it as seen here, suffering and weakness is where the glory flowed through, not tools.


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too.[a] 6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. 7 Our hope for you is unshaken, for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort.


Again bro, one can fast for a year, sing all day, but the power came in weakness, not ones ability to use an internalized basketball coach.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Frog and gideon... I love you both to death for real..

We just aren't agreeing on this one and that is okay for brothers not to agree...

Gideon, you're fine I'm not holding anything against you

 

[Frogster]

Frog and gideon... I love you both to death for real..

We just aren't agreeing on this one and that is okay for brothers not to agree...

Gideon, you're fine I'm not holding anything against you

Yep, and we are bro's, and it's fun to chat about this stuff, be blessed, you're bro, the long winded, bloviating, pontificating, frog..

hey, that was a good one about the pentecostal preacher closing his sermons veddy veddy slowly.

 

[turned around]

Hi Frog,
I looked up carnally in my concordance. One of definitions was human weakness, and frailties. So looking at myself may bring death. Spiritual mindednes is looking at the Christ who lives in me.


Grace to you.