A New School Prayer

[Inviolable]

Double post, sorry.

 

[Inviolable]

I'm pretty sure there are already comparative religious courses like the one you suggest for your Muslim prayer... however that doesn't really address the question, does it?

If you are happy for a Christian prayer session to be conducted in a non-religious studies classroom, regardless of the religion of any or all of the students... would you be EQUALLY happy for a Muslim prayer session to be conducted in the exact same circumstances?

I don't think I'd mind.

In public schools sure.
I attended public schools and there were Christians and when they prayed we weren't required to all join in and that's what it seems to be made out by the radical anti Christians.

"It's a public school." Where the "public" goes to learn. If some Muslim kid wants to have a prayer why shouldn't he be able to?

My parents weren't so shallow as to not be able to explain any questions I had about school once I got home and if it was something completely unethical the principal got an earful.

Now that I've answered it completely and hopefully to your satisfaction, how about it panda person? b&w
Or you LH, would you allow your personal beliefs to get in the way of someone else'?

 

[LightHorseman]

I don't think I'd mind.

In public schools sure.
I attended public schools and there were Christians and when they prayed we weren't required to all join in and that's what it seems to be made out by the radical anti Christians.

"It's a public school." Where the "public" goes to learn. If some Muslim kid wants to have a prayer why shouldn't he be able to?

My parents weren't so shallow as to not be able to explain any questions I had about school once I got home and if it was something completely unethical the principal got an earful.

Now that I've answered it completely and hopefully to your satisfaction, how about it panda person? b&w
Or you LH, would you allow your personal beliefs to get in the way of someone else'?

well I try very hard not to let my personal beliefs get in the way of others. I may not always succeed, but I try.

I would be more than happy for students in a public school to pray to whomsoever they choose to, so long as it doesn't disrupt lessons. In a private religious school, I have no problem at all with all the students being led in prayers, no matter what their religion. What I have an issue with is the idea of leading public school students in a prayer specific to a specific religion or denomination. If my daughter were forced to participate in, say, a Muslim prayer, I'd be upset. I would imagine a Muslim parent would feel pretty much the same if his children were forced to participate in a Christian service, and rightly so.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

well I try very hard not to let my personal beliefs get in the way of others. I may not always succeed, but I try.

I would be more than happy for students in a public school to pray to whomsoever they choose to, so long as it doesn't disrupt lessons. In a private religious school, I have no problem at all with all the students being led in prayers, no matter what their religion. What I have an issue with is the idea of leading public school students in a prayer specific to a specific religion or denomination. If my daughter were forced to participate in, say, a Muslim prayer, I'd be upset. I would imagine a Muslim parent would feel pretty much the same, and rightly so.

Well said.

 

[tcampen]

WHY do any of you want prayer to YOUR GOD in public schools?

It's a simple question. Can anyone provide a simple, rational answer?

 

[b&wpac4]

WHY do any of you want prayer to YOUR GOD in public schools?

It's a simple question. Can anyone provide a simple, rational answer?

I don't want prayer in school unless it is in a comparative religion class where they are learning the idea behind the prayers.

 

[AdamClarke]

Perhaps the USA should fix its public education, learn from other countries who do it well!!

Of course the U.S. needs to fix its schools, and yes there are countries who do a better job. What is your point?

 

[LightHorseman]

State the missionaries from these other causes then? I'm sorry, socialism and taxing people doesn't count.

The Red Crescent? Masons? Hindus are known to give significantly to charities, both financially and with voluntary time...

 

[Rajni]

"For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state."

​

Perhaps one reason why Christians are given such grief over praying in public is because doing so actually goes against the grain of the Lord's instructions on the matter:

"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6)
​

In light of this passage, it would seem the state is simply reinforcing biblical principles when it prohibits us from publicly demonstrating the fact that we're praying. Prayer cannot be outlawed, because enforcing anti-prayer laws would require telepathy on the part of the enforcers. Making a public show of the fact that one is praying, however, can be outlawed, and justifiably so if Matthew 6 is any indicator.












.

 

[CCGirl]

Of course the U.S. needs to fix its schools, and yes there are countries who do a better job. What is your point?

It was merely a suggestion, why are you so defensive about it?

 

[reverend C]

"For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state."​

Perhaps one reason why Christians are given such grief over praying in public is because doing so actually goes against the grain of the Lord's instructions on the matter:

"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6)
​

In light of this passage, it would seem the state is simply reinforcing biblical principles when it prohibits us from publicly demonstrating the fact that we're praying. Prayer cannot be outlawed, because enforcing anti-prayer laws would require telepathy on the part of the enforcers. Making a public show of the fact that one is praying, however, can be outlawed, and justifiably so if Matthew 6 is any indicator.

this is not a justification for outlawing prayer, as the first amendment would prevent such a law. it is a very good reason for Christians to rethink their need to make prayer a public spectacle. Christ suggested that those that do are buffoons.

 

[Rajni]

this is not a justification for outlawing prayer, as the first amendment would prevent such a law.

Even without the first amendment's protection, prayer -- in it's most basic form -- cannot be outlawed, unless those who would presume to enforce such a ban were also mind-readers who could tell when we're secretly communicating with God from within ourselves. That's the beauty of having a God who is telepathic, LOL!

it is a very good reason for Christians to rethink their need to make prayer a public spectacle.

Amen!

 

[tcampen]

Even without the first amendment's protection, prayer -- in it's most basic form -- cannot be outlawed, unless those who would presume to enforce such a ban were also mind-readers who could tell when we're secretly communicating with God from within ourselves. That's the beauty of having a God who is telepathic, LOL!

Amen!

The 1st Amendment only applies to government action, thus the Establishment Clause deals with official endorsement of religion, and not the personal practice or faith of the individual.

 

[reverend C]

The 1st Amendment only applies to government action, thus the Establishment Clause deals with official endorsement of religion, and not the personal practice or faith of the individual.

i was referring to the free speech part of the amendment, not the freedom of religion part.

 

[SughaNSpice]

And I have never heard of anyone trying to outlaw prayer. What many people do not like (and rightly so) is attempts by some religious groups to force children to participate in THEIR religion

 

[ebia]

Just so we're clear, you'd have absolutely 100% no problem if I lead your children in, say, a Muslim prayer or a Jewish prayer in the classroom?

Just for the record, I teach in a Catholic school (in Australia) and would be delighted if one of my Muslim students volunteered to lead the prayer in the morning.

 

[ebia]

Religion has no place in school other than a comparative religion class.

And mathematics has no place in school except in a mathematics class?

By taking an exclusively secular approach one is taking and teaching a religious position - that of secularism. The vast majority of countries operate perfectly good education systems that cater for multicultural societies with a more relaxed approach to religion. From a non-American perspective your country seems stuck in an 18th Century reaction to what was going on in Europe at the time. A reaction that was arguably necessary then, but should have been outgrown by now. And it has the problem it tends to stifle moderate religion and feed fundamentalism.

 

[b&wpac4]

Just for the record, I teach in a Catholic school (in Australia) and would be delighted if one of my Muslim students volunteered to lead the prayer in the morning.

Then I think you're awesome for that, because 9 times out of 10, I get a resounding "NO!" when I ask that question.