A new Pagan tradition

[A Freethinker]

I have to admit, this is one reason I just can't take paganism very seriously.

Do not use one Pagan religion (Wicca in this case) to generalize all other Pagan religions. I disagree and agree with Wiccans often, but comparing two pagan religions is often like comparing Judaism and Christianity; Similar but different.

Don't say that you don't take Paganism seriously just because of Wicca.

 

[ravenscape]

Many people on this forum write "Pagan" when they mean "The 20th Century non-reconstructionist NeoPagan religion known as Wicca".

I got used to it after a while. Now, I try to give examples of specific pagan religions when I talk about "what Pagans believe"

 

[Seaside Mists]

I was raised a protestant, attending the Reformed church that is two blocks away from where I am seated right now. I was, by definition, a fundementalist (I didn't know this at the time). My first true exposure to Paganism was a report I gave on Voodoun in middleschool.

In high school, I debated interpretation of bible verses with a good friend of mine. His interpretations brought me to realize that I might be wrong. Over a period of time, I eventually became agnostic (though nominally Christian -- attending church but not with any faith).

It was then that a man by the name of Aleister Crowley caught my attention. I began researching him, his writings, and Thelema.

I first heard of Wicca in highschool. The first Pagan I discussed my beliefs with was a friend from a MUD I play. The first Wiccan I met (in person) was a fluffy bunny on various narcotics, so he scared me away from that path for a bit of time.

I eventually researched Wicca in college, and discovered that it was very similar to things that I already believed in. I joined the coven headed by a good friend of mine.

One of the covenmates of the coven was destructive, and we eventually had to excommunicate her. She is still slandering our names. This experience has led me to see weaknesses in the structure of Wicca.

Since then, a new tradition of witchcraft has been forming itself within my mind -- something different. However, I want to do as much research as possible. Not only do I wish to research Pagan religions, but I wish to research as many religions as possible. Including various denominations of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Bahá'í, Buddhism, etc.

I'm also writing an accompanying religious philosophy that is compatable with all beliefs and non-beliefs that I can think of.

Let me know any religious texts you think I ought to read (Bible & Quran are already on my list) and feel free to give me any advice or ask questions.

All religions have weaknesses in them. Part of the problem with having religion is that you have to have mankind involved in them. When you start involving mankind, then the inherent flaws in mankind raise their ugly heads. Having worked with many, many, many, many, many, many Wiccans I have also noticed that some become drunk with the amount of spiritual power that Wicca allows you to direct personally. I think that since Wicca allows you to control so much of your own spiritual power and destiny, people who haven't taken the ethics of the religion to heart get lost.

Now that I've completely wandered from the topic.....

You may want to pick up some information on Qabala, specifically information on the Tree of Life. I think Ellen Cannon Reed does beautiful books on mystic Qabala which you as a Wiccan may appreciate at a depth that will touch you.

I'll think about what other books are great to read, but it'll take me a bit.

I know that you've had a lot of spiritual struggles lately, so I wish you luck in your journey and keep us up to date on your development. Watching somebody's rebirth into their faith is a beautiful thing to see.

 

[Seaside Mists]

Yeah... after thousands of years of everyone being wrong - you are going to make up a proper "path". Welcome to paganism people - grab a plate and please, avoid getting fingerprints on the sneeze shield, they were already cleaned once this hour....

There is absolutely no reason to demean this person's spiritual journey. It does nothing to flatter you, your religion, and it does not help him find his way to God. It certainly doesn't make exploring Christianity any more tempting if somebody is shown hostility by Christians.

The simple fact is I don't think Morningstar was saying that everybody is wrong spiritually, only that he hasn't found his spirituality. He's shared his reflections on his spiritual path, not everybody elses spiritual path. Fact is in thousands of years obviously nobody has put together a path that helps the OP find his way.

I think we all could learn from the courage of somebody who so wants to be close to God that they set out on a journey to find God for themself.

 

[Self Improvement]

Yeah... after thousands of years of everyone being wrong - you are going to make up a proper "path". Welcome to paganism people - grab a plate and please, avoid getting fingerprints on the sneeze shield, they were already cleaned once this hour....

Welcome to christianity as well.

A new group every day.

 

[monk_fish]

Yeah... after thousands of years of everyone being wrong - you are going to make up a proper "path". Welcome to paganism people - grab a plate and please, avoid getting fingerprints on the sneeze shield, they were already cleaned once this hour....

Nice post what does that have to do with religious texts he ought to read?

 

[Hydra009]

Since then, a new tradition of witchcraft has been forming itself within my mind -- something different. However, I want to do as much research as possible. Not only do I wish to research Pagan religions, but I wish to research as many religions as possible. Including various denominations of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Bahá'í, Buddhism, etc.

Gaia? (Asimov reference) Don't keep me in suspense!

I don't really know enough to recommend anything specifically, just want to congradulate you on overcoming that mischevious person. But does that incident necessitate a restructure of beliefs? AFAIK, it was just an organizational and procedural problem. This kind of thing happens to groups of all stripes all the time, so all that is really necessary is to set up a satisfactory procedure for dealing with it.

 

[A Freethinker]

There is absolutely no reason to demean this person's spiritual journey. It does nothing to flatter you, your religion, and it does not help him find his way to God. It certainly doesn't make exploring Christianity any more tempting if somebody is shown hostility by Christians.

The simple fact is I don't think Morningstar was saying that everybody is wrong spiritually, only that he hasn't found his spirituality. He's shared his reflections on his spiritual path, not everybody elses spiritual path. Fact is in thousands of years obviously nobody has put together a path that helps the OP find his way.

I think we all could learn from the courage of somebody who so wants to be close to God that they set out on a journey to find God for themself.

You are the single most open minded, down-to-earth Christian I have ever seen on this forum. Congratulations.

 

[Seaside Mists]

You are the single most open minded, down-to-earth Christian I have ever seen on this forum. Congratulations.

I'm a Catholic, but I'm also a person who has a deep love and understanding for God and all that he created. Not being a traditional Catholic, I work really, really hard to get to know about people of other faiths and what their respective beliefs are. I think that it's important that if you want to know God, you have to know God through people's different perspectives. I enjoy learning about other faiths, and it's helped me learn that everybody has their own beautiful way of finding God. All different, all unique, but all beautiful. Wicca is one of the religions I study and I have a great deal frustration at people who demean people who follow that path. I don't think that's so much open-mindedness as an uncontrollable urge to "let people have it" for speaking poorly of a religion or belief I think is one of the most admirable beliefs out there.

 

[A Freethinker]

I'm a Catholic, but I'm also a person who has a deep love and understanding for God and all that he created. Not being a traditional Catholic, I work really, really hard to get to know about people of other faiths and what their respective beliefs are. I think that it's important that if you want to know God, you have to know God through people's different perspectives. I enjoy learning about other faiths, and it's helped me learn that everybody has their own beautiful way of finding God. All different, all unique, but all beautiful. Wicca is one of the religions I study and I have a great deal frustration at people who demean people who follow that path. I don't think that's so much open-mindedness as an uncontrollable urge to "let people have it" for speaking poorly of a religion or belief I think is one of the most admirable beliefs out there.

Again, I totally agree. Well said.

I think that in order to subscribe to any religion or spirituality, you must first know enough about other religions/spiritualities that you know the one you have found is the right one for you. Sadly, this is usually not the case with people of dogmatic religions.

EDIT: I'm an ex-catholic

 

[TrueQ]

You know, whenever somebody asks me about religious texts, I bring up the Principia Discordia. People who know me and haven't read the book always roll their eyes when I do this, people who know me and have always shout out their favorite quote. For better or for worse, I reckon that I'll continue to plug this fine book to better the cause of enlightenment.

The Principia Discordia is a holy book of the Discordians, which are a group of relativistic nutjobs who somehow managed to found themselves a handful of decades ago. Its a great holy book to read for a few main reasons, its short (always a plus), its deep, and you can read it for free at principiadiscordia.com. Its also a good book for people starting up their own path, because all of it's really good philosophical and mystic bits can freely be taken completely out of context without significantly changing any of their meanings.

(If you wind up buying the thing, get the black version published by Steve Jackson Games, its my favorite, and it has a few extra pages thrown in)

 

[rowena]

You know, whenever somebody asks me about religious texts, I bring up the Principia Discordia. People who know me and haven't read the book always roll their eyes when I do this, people who know me and have always shout out their favorite quote. For better or for worse, I reckon that I'll continue to plug this fine book to better the cause of enlightenment.

The Principia Discordia is a holy book of the Discordians, which are a group of relativistic nutjobs who somehow managed to found themselves a handful of decades ago. Its a great holy book to read for a few main reasons, its short (always a plus), its deep, and you can read it for free at principiadiscordia.com. Its also a good book for people starting up their own path, because all of it's really good philosophical and mystic bits can freely be taken completely out of context without significantly changing any of their meanings.

(If you wind up buying the thing, get the black version published by Steve Jackson Games, its my favorite, and it has a few extra pages thrown in)

I second the suggesting of this book. Its a really good read and the way its written forces you to think.

"Mord says that Omar says that we are all unicorns anyway."

 

[Lokisdottir]

You know, whenever somebody asks me about religious texts, I bring up the Principia Discordia. People who know me and haven't read the book always roll their eyes when I do this, people who know me and have always shout out their favorite quote. For better or for worse, I reckon that I'll continue to plug this fine book to better the cause of enlightenment.

The Principia Discordia is a holy book of the Discordians, which are a group of relativistic nutjobs who somehow managed to found themselves a handful of decades ago. Its a great holy book to read for a few main reasons, its short (always a plus), its deep, and you can read it for free at principiadiscordia.com. Its also a good book for people starting up their own path, because all of it's really good philosophical and mystic bits can freely be taken completely out of context without significantly changing any of their meanings.

(If you wind up buying the thing, get the black version published by Steve Jackson Games, its my favorite, and it has a few extra pages thrown in)

I'm not quite Discordian, but I've been known to joyously partake of a hot dog on a Friday, and I follow a path (and a God) which lends itself nicely to the joyous partaking of a hot dog on a Friday. Mmyep.

 

[Illuminatus]

I was wondering when someone would bring up the Principia. I'll throw my two bits in, and say the Tao Te Ching.

 

[psychedelicist]

Dang someone beat me to the Tao te Ching. So I will recommend the Zhuang Zi (or Chuang Tzu, or somehing like that). It's also a Taoist book.

Crowley helped influence Anton LaVey,who wrote the satanic bible. While it's not really pagan, it does talk about many of the same things pagans do, although it takes a different perspective or stand most of the time, and talks about both lesser and greater magic. It's a very interesting read.

A few other authors to consider:

John Lilly- "Center of the Cyclone", "The Quiet Center"
Antero Alli- "Angel Tech" (very very good book)
Aldous Huxley- "The Doors of Perception", "Heaven and Hell"

 

[sidhe]

If you haven't read it yet, I'd suggest The Book of Wisdom and Folly by Crowley.

 

[sidhe]

And I'll third the Principia Discordia.

 

[morningstar2651]

There is absolutely no reason to demean this person's spiritual journey. It does nothing to flatter you, your religion, and it does not help him find his way to God. It certainly doesn't make exploring Christianity any more tempting if somebody is shown hostility by Christians.

The simple fact is I don't think Morningstar was saying that everybody is wrong spiritually, only that he hasn't found his spirituality. He's shared his reflections on his spiritual path, not everybody elses spiritual path. Fact is in thousands of years obviously nobody has put together a path that helps the OP find his way.

I think we all could learn from the courage of somebody who so wants to be close to God that they set out on a journey to find God for themself.

Very well put - you hit the nail right on the head. Thanks!

 

[Amandine]

I'll second The Orthodox Way (or The Orthodox Church by the same author) and teachings of Zhuang Zi (pronounced jzhwang zuh...ah the multitudes of Chinese transliteration). The Analects of Confucius tend to have interesting advice, there's a lot to think on there. Poems of Rumi, totally crazy but very fun! The Jewish Bible ... books about ancient cultures and their religions... I'm a religion book addict!

 

[urnotme]

Oh? Why not?

I'm not expecting you to take fluffbunnies or hypocrites seriously. However, not all Pagans are fluffbunnies or hypocrites.

If someone researching a multitude of religious beliefs and generally working themselves like mad isn't serious, then I want to know what you consider "serious".

If you want to be a christian wich you may want to visit this site, http://northernway.org/cpinfo.html or read this article
http://www.fprespa.org/tggod.htm I think he gets a sex change here
http://www.puramaryam.de/createchrist.html, they're putting christian behind everything these days thhey even have christian atheism whatever that is.