A new CF, an old vision

openup4christ · Jul 6, 2007

I am sorry I cannot just act happy and supportive if there are somethings that just dont bode well with me, that disturb me. This is CHRISTIAN FORUMS a forum for the fellowship of Christians to encourage growth in Christ but now mods will be decided by mans standers and not by Gods standards. What has made this forum great and different seems like it will be thrown away along with all the people who have spent hours every week to try and make this forum a better place. We love to Mod because we believe in this forums mission to unite all Christians as one body, but if nonchristians are going to be on staff on Christian it seems as though the wisdom of God will be mixed with the foolishness of men.

1 Corinthians 2:6-16

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” pBut we have the mind of Christ

I am so sad to see this happen... I hope the best for CF and hope, and pray that things will be ok, but light cannont be mixed with darkness in light there can be no darkness. I am all for some of the other changes but it seems to me that christian forums should be run by Christians.

praying · Jul 6, 2007

nyj said:
I think it's different. Back when I was an Administrator, we actively approached people and solicited applications. Everyone and anyone was free to apply. They didn't need to have friends to nominate them and then vote for them. At least in Theology, they were judged by what they brought to the table. If we didn't think they fit what we were looking for, we almost always sent their application to another team and they were brought on staff.

It was never a matter of turning people away, it was a matter of getting people to apply.

I'm afraid that the "new system" will be a popularity contest ... which I myself tried to avoid in high school. I would never consider going back to such a situation, knowing that I now have people who lobbied for me, and who may expect something in return now that I'm where they wanted me ... and if I don't walk the line they expect of me ... they'll drop the ax on me in a year's time.

I don't think there is a perfect system ... I just think some come with more baggage than others. It remains to be seen which one system was the carry-on, and which one is the garment bag.

I agree it has the potential to be a popularity contest, but let's be honest why were people nominated the old way, because they were liked so what really is the is difference?

MelzluvsJesus · Jul 6, 2007

THIS should be interesting...so, no warnings, does that mean no bans either? Bans were so stupid and done out of hate and spite by some of the mods. I KNOW I had a friend here once that was hounded by staff..and eventually banned...it was bad.

kiwimac · Jul 6, 2007

GreenMunchkin said:
This is simply rhetoric.

Here's an example. In the Uk forums, there is a thread about an English athlete who was an outspoken Christian. He lost his faith in February. We were praying for him, and a chap (who is perfectly nice) basically said, oh, he'll be happier now he's come to the realisation.

If a Christian is struggling with their faith, how would a statement like that be ministering to them?

Would it be possible for you to misunderstand the post any more deeply?

herev · Jul 6, 2007

kiwimac said:
Meh,

I realise this is pushing all kinds of buttons for you but please ... don't react out of old hurts and pains, you are respected, cared-for and loved her. You are a fine Administrator. A minister in the deepest sense of the word.

here, here, you are loved so much meh!

Tychicus2 · Jul 6, 2007

nyj said:
Go with God, meh. You are a great person, and you raise a very valid point. It was a pleasure to have you on staff and I appreciate your service and dedication to the job you volunteered to do.

Erwin · Jul 6, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Think of it as a great experiment in which we the members will modify the rules and requirements of moderators as needed.

Plus, while atheists do outnumber Christians in GA, they do not outnumber Christians forum wide. I would be surprised if a single atheist makes it to moderator based on a vote.

Lisa

+1 !

MariaRegina · Jul 6, 2007

When I say "God bless", and another staff member responds "Allah be with you, peace be with Mohammed", how am I to respond?

Yes, this bothers me too. We are Christian Forums, but with non-Christian mods we will become a non-sectarian forum, won't we?

There are "new Christians", and there are "weak Christians". Now --- there will be no "safe harbor", where they can nurtured and strengthened in Christ. Anyone who is an "unbeliever in Christ", can give their own counsel to those struggling with faith.

...and lead them astray...

This has always been my concern. Now anyone can jump into the Outreach forum and lead struggling Christians and seekers astray. Yes, they could before, but now it will only be worse.

The "Christian only" forums had as its purpose a place where Christians can fellowship, teach and learn, without deceptive influence. Removing that section, removes that protection.

So true.

It's not a question of whether "many people" or "staff" will be happy; it is a question (and I mean no disrespect), of whether God will be happy.

It is a question if God will be obeyed, honored, and worshiped as is proper and right.

krstlros · Jul 6, 2007

I believe I will stay on until the dust settles. Afteral, if all the good ones leave, then who will make sure that everything is going to be all right?

I am also uncomfortable about the voting for moderators idea. I am not the most popular, most vocal nor do I know if I'm well liked. As Meh has described it, I'm usually the one who works in the background, not shining all too brightly my light and just do the work that is necessarty for the world to keep turning. So, my ten-year may be short lived when all is said and done.

My support is always with you, Erwin. From day one this site has given me a refuge for all the "nastiness" being a Catholic can bring forth. You had to do what you felt that needed to be done, and my hats off to you for your bravery and courage to do this.

So, as the saying goes, "We are living in interesting times." If anything, it's going to be an interesting ride.

Leanna · Jul 6, 2007

kiwimac said:
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Jesus was friends with sinners, tax-collectors et al, are you saying that Jesus because he was a friend to the friendless was somehow in a state of 'emnity against God'?

Make no mistake about it, the purpose of Christians is to bear witness to Christ, not turn places like this one into 'Christian-only' Ghettoes nor yet to judge who is and who is not a christian something known only to God.

I completely agree. Jesus spent more time with the tax collectors than the Pharisees for a reason.... yet the Pharisees here have always been resisting the idea of being around the tax collectors since it makes them "dirty"

I want this place to be Christian, to be safe, to represent Christ the way He would be-- tax collectors invited. Sin not invited. Hate the sin not the sinner.

RN4CHRIST · Jul 6, 2007

meh said:
Which is why I'm leaving staff and putting it here, in public, for all to see so if anyone cares they don't have to go off speculating.

I don't do popularity contests of any sort. I just don't. I don't know if I'm "liked" enough to be kept around or hated enough to get the boot. That isn't the point.

I don't even like the mod of the month thing and gringe when my name goes up! Why? Because in school I was the one whose name never had a checkmark or vote beside it. Never picked for the kickball team even though I was good. I was the quiet nerd in the corner everybody loathed.

Now, why is this something I just can't handle? Because eventually there will be a vote for mods and someone who is really lovely, who does a lot behind the scenes for people, who is smart and funny and compassionate and would be a great mod won't have a checkmark next to their name or get a vote because they are quiet, or because they aren't in the right clique or something. And it will hurt.

Sorry. I just can't do it.

I'll still be around playing my little verse games and stuff and of course keeping my dollie well dressed, but that is why I'll be leaving staff. And thinking about the person on the ballot who might get hurt, I'm equally reminded it's high time to apologize to any member or fellow staff whom I have hurt with deeds or words. I apologize.

I wish CF the best and hope it goes great.

(hugs Meh!) I know what you mean. I was never one to win a popularity contest. But just know you are popular with me!

Glaz · Jul 6, 2007

One thing I like for sure, the transparency being added to reports and staff. The accused will finally know who's accusing them.

ALiberalTeen · Jul 6, 2007

Why is there so much hate for this? Non-Christians are allowed in Churches, why shouldn't they be allowed in denominational forums? If they make a post that really offends people, It would probably be deleted, what's the problem?

Alice the Sister · Jul 6, 2007

So you're just giving atheists the illusion that they'll be accepted, when there's no intention to do so?

drstevej · Jul 6, 2007

What is the staff resignation count now?
We need transparency.

GreenMunchkin · Jul 6, 2007

kiwimac said:
Would it be possible for you to misunderstand the post any more deeply?

If I misunderstood, am sorry. Explain it to me, if you would?

RN4CHRIST · Jul 6, 2007

krstlros said:
I believe I will stay on until the dust settles. Afteral, if all the good ones leave, then who will make sure that everything is going to be all right?

I am also uncomfortable about the voting for moderators idea. I am not the most popular, most vocal nor do I know if I'm well liked. As Meh has described it, I'm usually the one who works in the background, not shining all too brightly my light and just do the work that is necessarty for the world to keep turning. So, my ten-year may be short lived when all is said and done.

My support is always with you, Erwin. From day one this site has given me a refuge for all the "nastiness" being a Catholic can bring forth. You had to do what you felt that needed to be done, and my hats off to you for your bravery and courage to do this.

So, as the saying goes, "We are living in interesting times." If anything, it's going to be an interesting ride.

(((HUGS))) You are such a wonderful person! God will bless you!

DedicatedLittleFaith · Jul 6, 2007

Ben johnson said:
It's clear this will get lost in the flood, but --- the point of Christian Forums is to serve God, through Jesus. The "Nicene Creed" has been the best standard of agreement; by allowing staff to be "non-Christians", atheists, Hindus, and anyone, we will no longer be a Christian site.

When I say "God bless", and another staff member responds "Allah be with you, peace be with Mohammed", how am I to respond?
Not really --- there are many people who declare "Jesus is only a man, had a beginning, and is not divine." And in the same breath, declare "we are Christian".

Staff on a Christian website are called on to minister to people --- we are seen as "elders in a church"; with respect to all, what ministry will atheists have for those seeking Jesus?
There are "new Christians", and there are "weak Christians". Now --- there will be no "safe harbor", where they can nurtured and strengthened in Christ. Anyone who is an "unbeliever in Christ", can give their own counsel to those struggling with faith.

...and lead them astray...

The "Christian only" forums had as its purpose a place where Christians can fellowship, teach and learn, without deceptive influence. Removing that section, removes that protection.
It's not a question of whether "many people" or "staff" will be happy; it is a question (and I mean no disrespect), of whether God will be happy.

I know you mean well; I know you opened this site to promote Jesus and to serve God, and to promote Christian fellowship. All groups were invited here, Christian or not; and groups who refer to themselves as Christian, but do not follow the Creeds, are invited here --- that we may share the real Jesus with them.

Scripture has absolutes --- Jesus is God, salvation is through no one else. Salvation is by His grace, through our faith; works are but the consequence of what the indwelling persons of Jesus and the Holy Spirit do in and through us. If we compromise foundational absolutes such as these, then we are no longer serving Jesus.

James said (4:4), "Friendship with the world, is enmity against God". In our trying to be "uniting all Christians", let us not compromise the absolutes Jesus has given us.

Praying for a website that will promote Jesus, answer the other religions and beliefs, and please God.

Well said!

My prayers are with all of us as we go through this change.

chaoschristian · Jul 6, 2007

Regarding non-Christian mods:

Any accusation that can be leveled at them has already been demonstrated on CF with the current all Christian staff. Erwin acknowledges this in these reforms.

If the rules are simple and oriented towards moderating conversational tone, rather than correct content, and if the moderating process is completely open as proposed, than any serious wrong doing will be exposed and addressed.

The bottom line is that there is nothing inherant in being Christian that also makes one especially well suited to be a discussion board moderator. Whereas the qualities of good moderating ability can be found across the faith (or non-faith) spectrum.

If there is a great need for pastoral care, peacemaking, or specific knowledge of a particular Christian faith tradition, then those agencies can exist independently of the Mods and/or be performed by regular members.

nyj · Jul 6, 2007

praying said:
I agree it has the potential to be a popularity contest, but let's be honest why were people nominated the old way, because they were liked so what really is the is difference?

I asked people to apply (I didn't nominate anyone) because I would browse the fora and liked what I saw. Mainly, I was looking for objectivity and fairness in discussion. I wasn't looking for someone to scratch my back because I just scratched theirs.

I envision the new system being a sort of game in the Fellowship fora. A lot of fluff, no substance.

That's just me I suppose.

A new CF, an old vision

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