A new CF, an old vision (3)

Ramona · Jul 7, 2007

porterross said:
Have you noticed that the liberals and unchurched are happy about this?

You know, I find all this to be quite sad. Conservatives do not and will never have a monopoly on Christianity. I want CF to take a good, hard look at all the festering hatred people are throwing at the "liberals and unchurched" in the name of their god. Look at the way they castigate and insult their neighbors. For what? For Christ Jesus, who came to die for the sins of all mankind?

Get real. People are going on and on about how they need to "protect" themselves from the unbelievers. They say that they want to "witness" to us. And then they go saying such mean-spirited things.

I displayed an Anabaptist icon for most of my time on CF. I preached a message of love and respect for all god's creation. And you know what? People listened. I cannot even begin to try to tell you guys how many times people have told me that I restored their faith in Christians, Christianity, or even Christ himself by the sheer power of friendship.

This is the thanks that I get. If you lot are the true Christians, then it's a miracle that I deconverted when I did.

Beastt · Jul 7, 2007

Stormy said:
I spend a lot of time in apologetics, and I get along well with everyone there. I have to tell you though, the atheists are not benign. They are lethal to your Christian faith. Yes, I know that non-believers can walk into any church.. but they are not given the pulpit.

I wonder if any consideration as been given to the reality -that allowing their views to advise- will many times conflict extremely with the Christian faith. Will thay be allowed to attack faith in all forums? Will they be able to give Godless advise to Christian seeking help and prayers? Erwin had always kept safeguards in place in appologetics.. and now?

I too am shocked at the way the now active mods were treated by Erwin. They gave of their own time to assist him with CF, but it appears to be a thankless job.

Don't worry, Stormy. The only thing that can ever win out in an open and equal, prolonged debate is truth. Untruth is simply inconsistent with reality. If what you hold is truth, it will win in any equal contest because untruth simply can't show itself to be consistent with reality no matter how many people might be trying to promote it.

If you hold truth then what you hold will prevail. If others hold truth then what they hold will prevail. The inequality practiced in the past has only demonstrated that some fear that what they hold as truth would be unable to stand up to being tested against the demonstrations of reality.

Show a little trust in reality and truth will emerge. I think it's more important to find and hold truth than to have to control a situation unfairly to hold the illusion of truth.

As to the moderators, many have absolutely donated a great deal of time and work to the forum. But in any system, good or bad, there are a great many who give of their time and efforts to produce the system. If the system they produce isn't positive, then perhaps their efforts would be better spent in a new direction. If they've spent their donated time being beneficial to the majority, then the majority will want to keep them. If not, they will have earned the outcome.

intricatic · Jul 7, 2007

seekingmyLord said:
This entire thread is a prime example of how being inclusive is really just another form of exclusiveness, with a more friendly title.

Amen. CF's new logo should be "Dividing the Body of Christ with Smilies "

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Jul 7, 2007

seekingmyLord said:
When I see people feeling compelled to leave and some suggesting to others they should leave... well, that seems to me to be exclusiveness in inclusiveness clothing.

I see it often in homeschool groups too. Inclusive groups are really as intolerant of people with strong views with which the majority does not agree as the exclusive groups are.

Those opposed to inclusiveness exclude themselves. The only ones being told to leave are threatening to leave already. People are standing up to that emotional blackmail instead of kowtowing to the whiners. There are plenty of conservatives, myself included, who don't believe in the falsity of liberal tolerance who are welcoming this change. Those who are being excluded are doing so by choice and not by the design of the new system and as such I have very little sympathy for them.

RedTulipMom · Jul 7, 2007

WOW! thread 3 already?? hi everyone, has the chaos and back-biting coments died down yet?

Lisa0315 · Jul 7, 2007

seekingmyLord said:
When I see people feeling compelled to leave and some suggesting to others they should leave... well, that seems to me to be exclusiveness in inclusiveness clothing.

I see it often in homeschool groups too. Inclusive groups are really as intolerant of people with strong views with which the majority does not agree as the exclusive groups are.

Oh, okay. I don't particularly agree because they are welcome here and they are leaving of their own free will. That is not exclusive. In fact, many people are returning BECAUSE of this change.

I mean, if a church decided that only white people could attend, and people left over that, then, I would see your point. However, if a church said, everyone is welcome, and people left, then it is on them, not the church. Do you see what I am saying?

Lisa

RedTulipMom · Jul 7, 2007

moonkitty said:
First there was ice-cream, then a tea trolley, and now a bar! What is next? Starbucks?

sure why not..

ok..who wants a java chip frappuchino???

none the wiser · Jul 7, 2007

RedTulipMoon said:
WOW! thread 3 already?? hi everyone, has the chaos and back-biting coments died down yet?

Nahhhhh. lol.

RedTulipMom · Jul 7, 2007

ForHisGlory said:
I'm beyond sad at all my dear friends who've left or resigned... I doubt I'll make it through any voting criteria due to the two teams I was on, but am hoping some will at least see I was good at my job, and just maybe I can continue to serve...if not, I know where the caturday thread is

I'd vote for you in a second..you are an AWESOME mod and i hope to see you continue on for a full year!

OceanAngel · Jul 7, 2007

OceanAngel said:
Can you vote for mods yet?

I'm just interested for a friend, y'know

just quoting myself to bump the question

intricatic · Jul 7, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Oh, okay. I don't particularly agree because they are welcome here and they are leaving of their own free will. That is not exclusive. In fact, many people are returning BECAUSE of this change.

I mean, if a church decided that only white people could attend, and people left over that, then, I would see your point. However, if a church said, everyone is welcome, and people left, then it is on them, not the church. Do you see what I am saying?

Lisa

If a Church said "Atheists are allowed to take seats in administration, and we're democratizing the way services function" and people left, I would feel that is identical to a Church evicting everyone but their white members and having a fallout as a result.

ProdicalChristian · Jul 7, 2007

RedTulipMoon said:
sure why not..

ok..who wants a java chip frappuchino???

I do

Lisa0315 · Jul 7, 2007

Hey, does anyone want to hear about the big one that got away today?

I had so much fun fishing with my husband today. It is the first time we have been since his accident last year. He is not up to going out on a boat quite yet, but we fished off the bank and it was alot of fun!

I derailed this thread! Naner Naner Naner! Harmless, friendly, FREEDOM!!!

Lisa

Garnet2727 · Jul 7, 2007

I had no idea that I'm so powerful!

*flexes her leathery wings, sharpens her teeth and prepares to wreak havoc on the entire forum*

MUAHA-HA-HA-HA-HAAA!

Beastt · Jul 7, 2007

suzybeezy said:
I believe Erwin has the best of intentions with this concept, unfortunately he's not been around and involved with CF, so he really doesn't understand the ramifications of this reform.

Speaking as a former Debate forums administrator, I can tell you opening up that kind of influence forum wide as the strong potential to create mayhem.

Wait and see. What is so harmful about letting people have a say over those things that affect them directly? Isn't that exactly why America was formed? Isn't that exactly what America is supposed to be about?

And yes, I know this is an international forum. But I simply don't understand why anyone would want to have a small few picked to reign over them with no say as to who those people are. Control needs to be fluid and it should be given to the masses, not the few elite.

We've seen where the "select few" have taken us and the liberties they have adopted for themselves in seeking even greater control over the masses. It hasn't worked. It has lead to the back-biting, back-stabbing and in-fighting which has been CF. It has been a dismal failure.

Trying giving democracy a try. It might not be as bad as you predict.

ProdicalChristian · Jul 7, 2007

I can tell you this, some members will coming back with this new CF.

RedTulipMom · Jul 7, 2007

ProdicalChristian said:
I do

here ya go..i even put lots of whip cream on top with a drizzle of chocolate

Lisa0315 · Jul 7, 2007

intricatic said:
If a Church said "Atheists are allowed to take seats in administration, and we're democratizing the way services function" and people left, I would feel that is identical to a Church evicting everyone but their white members and having a fallout as a result.

Well, that is a good point, but I think the way it will turn out, and it has been suggested already...I think that non-Christians will be moderators in GA only. They will not moderate in Congregational forums, and I doubt they would have any interest in doing so anyway.

Remember, Erwin said that each forum would have a membership, and the members would vote for moderators. So, it makes sense for atheists to have a say in GA, but makes no sense whatsoever for them to have a say in OBOB or Baptist or any other congregational area.

It is a great compromise.

Lisa

seekingmyLord · Jul 7, 2007

EdmundBlackadderTheThird said:
Those opposed to inclusiveness exclude themselves. The only ones being told to leave are threatening to leave already. People are standing up to that emotional blackmail instead of kowtowing to the whiners. There are plenty of conservatives, myself included, who don't believe in the falsity of liberal tolerance who are welcoming this change. Those who are being excluded are doing so by choice and not by the design of the new system and as such I have very little sympathy for them.

Changes of this sort always cause the exclusion of people with a different opinions, who were comfortable with how it was. Of course, it is their choice, but because of their beliefs, these changes make them so miserable they feel pushed out.

I have gone through two church splits and this is exactly how it works. Leadership makes a change in its direction and it leaves some in the dust, without even a "sorry to see you go"--actually, it's more of "I am so glad that they left." That is the sad part.

Garnet2727 · Jul 7, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Hey, does anyone want to hear about the big one that got away today?

I had so much fun fishing with my husband today. It is the first time we have been since his accident last year. He is not up to going out on a boat quite yet, but we fished off the bank and it was alot of fun!

I derailed this thread! Naner Naner Naner! Harmless, friendly, FREEDOM!!!

Lisa

It sounds like hubby is doing better, I hope, I hope?

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