A new CF, an old vision (2)

[CrusaderKing]

IF that happens, then I will quietly walk away from CF.

But that has not happened, nor do I belive that it is part of Erwin's vision for the site for that to happen. So, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now, and see how he plans to implement these changes.

That's why I'm advocating the wait and see approach. I'm mostly afraid of worst case scenario in which flame wars result. I've stated on one occasion that I don't expect people to agree with me. The big problem that I have is that people may start taking disagreement too far.

 

[pgp_protector]

Yes.

Then you better tell Erwin to scrap
The Forum
The Web Server Software
The Whole Internet.

Not all of the programmers of the above were "Christian"

 

[Lisa0315]

This has got to be one of the most informative threads we have ever had on CF. I feel like I finally know what that bad feeling was when I submitted an application to become a mod. I was accepted and before I started training, I changed my mind. I felt at the time that there was something going on behind the scenes that wasn't quite right, and additionally, I felt that my ability to witness was going to be limited.

I think this is a HUGE opportunity for every single member here at CF. I think we will be empowered to moderate ourselves, and I think the ability to speak openly and honestly will further the cause of Christ, rather than harm it. I think we will be better able to see the fruits of "True" Christians and the barrenness of those who only call themselves such.

I really think this is a positive thing. It does not have to be anarchy. It can be controlled chaos!

Lisa

 

[NewToLife]

Whats disturbing to me is that as someone whose actually spent a fair bit of time in the open debate forums I notice a lot of liberal folk who werent there yesterday but are sooo glad the atheists etc can now come onto the rest of the site. If you people actually cared you always had the opportunity to discuss with non-believers here, you have a nasty shock coming now if the atheists start getting active across the site.

As for conservatives, they arent likely to hang around once the penny drops that dishonestly claiming to be Christian is now acceptable but calling someone on that deception is not. What liberals dont get is that truth is as important as love to some of us, indeed without truth you cant have love at all, just the sham sentimentality that motivates liberal thinking.

 

[ProdicalChristian]

My point exactly!I took the letter literally as a form of prejudice,Because I do believe in god and I do believe myself to be a GODfearin CHRISTIAN woman.No one has the right here to deny me on the grounds of not speeking enough about my faith.I know there are some moderators here. If you don't mind me asking?do you all go and preech sermans in the congregation threads?Help me out here I'm really trying hard to understand this...

I know many "quiet" Christians will be great moderators.

Its a wait and see because voters often don't vote for "quiet" ones. That's another issue.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Then you better tell Erwin to scrap
The Forum
The Web Server Software
The Whole Internet.

Not all of the programmers of the above were "Christian"

I wonder what they'd do if they ever saw the comments in the Linux kernel code??

 

[probinson]

Then you better tell Erwin to scrap
The Forum
The Web Server Software
The Whole Internet.

Not all of the programmers of the above were "Christian"

Good point.

From now on, we only want Christian programmers making changes to the vBulletin software.

That goes for the MySQL database it runs on.

Oh, and the people that develop PHP, those people must also be Christians.

For that matter, I'm calling the phone company right now to verify that my DSL support people are Christian, since it is through their service that I access the internet, and therefore CF.

 

[pgp_protector]

I wonder what they'd do if they ever saw the comments in the Linux kernel code??

That or some of the variable names that get used in code

 

[karen freeinchristman]

This has got to be one of the most informative threads we have ever had on CF. I feel like I finally know what that bad feeling was when I submitted an application to become a mod. I was accepted and before I started training, I changed my mind. I felt at the time that there was something going on behind the scenes that wasn't quite right, and additionally, I felt that my ability to witness was going to be limited.

I think this is a HUGE opportunity for every single member here at CF. I think we will be empowered to moderate ourselves, and I think the ability to speak openly and honestly will further the cause of Christ, rather than harm it. I think we will be better able to see the fruits of "True" Christians and the barrenness of those who only call themselves such.

I really think this is a positive thing. It does not have to be anarchy. It can be controlled chaos!

Lisa

 

[No Swansong]

Whats disturbing to me is that as someone whose actually spent a fair bit of time in the open debate forums I notice a lot of liberal folk who werent there yesterday but are sooo glad the atheists etc can now come onto the rest of the site. If you people actually cared you always had the opportunity to discuss with non-believers here, you have a nasty shock coming now if the atheists start getting active across the site.

As for conservatives, they arent likely to hang around once the penny drops that dishonestly claiming to be Christian is now acceptable but calling someone on that deception is not. What liberals dont get is that truth is as important as love to some of us, indeed without truth you cant have love at all, just the sham sentimentality that motivates liberal thinking.

Well said

 

[ProdicalChristian]

Why is it Christians are afraid of liberal Christians, unorthodox Christians and athiests? Should Christians be afraid?

 

[NewToLife]

Why is it Christians are afraid of liberal Christians, unorthodox Christians and athiests? Should Christians be afraid?

I'm not afraid for myself.......

 

[Lisa0315]

Whats disturbing to me is that as someone whose actually spent a fair bit of time in the open debate forums I notice a lot of liberal folk who werent there yesterday but are sooo glad the atheists etc can now come onto the rest of the site. If you people actually cared you always had the opportunity to discuss with non-believers here, you have a nasty shock coming now if the atheists start getting active across the site.

As for conservatives, they arent likely to hang around once the penny drops that dishonestly claiming to be Christian is now acceptable but calling someone on that deception is not. What liberals dont get is that truth is as important as love to some of us, indeed without truth you cant have love at all, just the sham sentimentality that motivates liberal thinking.

We can still call them on it. However, we must do so in a way that is substantiated. That has always been the problem and it is not a new one.

For example, one can say, "I am a Universalist", and we can show Scripture why Universal Salvation is untrue. What we cannot do, and what we were never allowed to do is say, "You are not a Christian because you believe X or you do not believe Y". Nothing has changed.

Lisa

 

[ProdicalChristian]

I'm not afraid for myself.......

Afraid of losing your beliefs while sharing or debating?

 

[No Swansong]

Why is it Christians are afraid of liberal Christians, unorthodox Christians and athiests? Should Christians be afraid?

Who said they were afraid?

 

[Brimshack]

2 cents:

The prospect of non-Christian moderators some might consider rethinking their assumptions about the purpose of the forum(s) where such folks might exercise authority. An individual need not subscribe to the agenda of a forum to play a constructive role in its leadership; he need only have personal goals that are compatible with it. For example, would I subscribe to the agenda of promoting the Christian faith? No. But as someone with an interesting in promoting thoughtful discussion of a range of issues and fair treatment of participants in that discussion I could easily find a constructive role for himself in a forum with that larger goal (at least I could if I were better suited to the task). The point is that a non-believer could play a role in moderating some forums without necessarily playing the role of a spiritual leader. Much of what moderators do is pretty mundane stuff that has little to do with grand spiritual quests and ideological agendas. If the goals of the person and those of the forum proved incompatible, then one would certainly expect the individual non-believer to step down rather than to press goals inconsistent with the forum. Note that this too could be communicated effectively without necessarily using command and control tactics to force the issue.

I think the basic question here is which comes first, the respect for others and their personal judgement or the advocation of what you regard to be true/sound doctrine. This isn’t a question of doing one or the other, so much as a question of which will take priority when the two do seem to conflict. You can welcome somebody into your circle work with them and continually exhort them to your own beliefs, or you can hold them to an outer circle and do the same with a barrier between you. If the former approach comprises doctrine, the latter compromises personal integrity and poisons relationships.

To the best of my knowledge the Jesus of the gospels did not lay conditions on his company, even on his inner circle. He did not actively govern the actions of those with him. He did not in practice impose any hierarchy or any barriers between himself and those to whom he sought to preach his word. That’s approach to others is a powerful message in itself. There is a cost to be sure, it may be harder to communicate messages about doctrine with non-Christians getting more prominent placement. The advantage though is that it makes the message of love and compassion clear. So long as doctrinal issues divide up the community into those that can post here and there but not over here and those that can and cannot get access to the decision making process it’s that message of love that you muddy, a decision that has cost a lot of people a lot of hurt over the years.

It’s a question of priorities. In theory love and correct doctrine could go together; in practice you are constantly being asked (by both liberals and conservatives) to make a choice about which is more important to you. I think Erwin has made the right choice.

 

[RestoreTheRiver]

A forum with no definition of what it is to be a Christian; a forum with no definition of Christian marriage; a forum with modern, and misapplied "tolerance" as the highest value, will not long remain an online home to orthodox christians.

Yes, many will stay, to witness, to continue to be a light. But, many others, particularly if they have no safe "home" on the forum of their own, will choose to leave.

In this context, I'm speaking of more than our Eastern and oriental Orthodox brothers and sisters. I'm speaking of the Orthodox, the Roman Catholics, the Anglicans, and many, many like minded Protestants.

Now, do I speak for all of these people? Of course not! Just read through TAW, as but one strong example, to capture the orthodox thinking regarding the "new CF."

I do not believe for a moment that orthodox removal is the intent of the "new CF." However, I do believe that it will be the result. If "greater unity" is, indeed, the intent, in what way does orthodox removal serve that goal?

Would it not be better to back up, consider all of the response, and modify the plan?

On a much smaller level, the same "anything goes" approach cannot apply to faith icons. For example, I am a catholic christian, who is not, specifically, a Roman Catholic. Now, if I should say, "well, I share much in common with my Roman Catholic friends, I think I'll choose their icon", I would simply be making a false statement about myself.

Or, since I choose with the Eastern Orthodox on every historical difference between east and west, why should I not choose the Eastern Orthodox faith icon? Oh, just the small matter of fact again. I am a friend to the orthodox, but not a member of an Eastern Orthodox Church.

My point is that facts, truth, and basic integrity are important on every level, including how I present myself to others on CF.

Erwin, I don't know you. I will not begin to question your motivations, or your heart. If it sounds like I'm doing so, I have expressed myself poorly, and I apologize.

What I'm trying to say is that, as a christian for 37 years with two earned theology degrees, who is no stranger to dreams, visions, and words, it seems very clear to me that this new vision of which you speak is not yet ready, not yet fully formed. It also seems likely to me that part of it's formation is the very community you seek to serve...

Grace and Peace,

Michael

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I know many "quiet" Christians will be great moderators.

Its a wait and see because voters often don't vote for "quiet" ones. That's another issue.

That was my point in saying the eacemakers" would not be the ruling force. Not only that but only war mongers would want the job now. imho

 

[Lisa0315]

Whats disturbing to me is that as someone whose actually spent a fair bit of time in the open debate forums I notice a lot of liberal folk who werent there yesterday but are sooo glad the atheists etc can now come onto the rest of the site. If you people actually cared you always had the opportunity to discuss with non-believers here, you have a nasty shock coming now if the atheists start getting active across the site.

As for conservatives, they arent likely to hang around once the penny drops that dishonestly claiming to be Christian is now acceptable but calling someone on that deception is not. What liberals dont get is that truth is as important as love to some of us, indeed without truth you cant have love at all, just the sham sentimentality that motivates liberal thinking.

I am not a Liberal, but I am very, very glad that atheists are going to have free access to the entire site. I spend tons of time in GA and GT and I am going to hang around. I completely embrace the new policy.

Lisa

 

[ProdicalChristian]

Who said they were afraid?

The whiners about them coming into the Christian forums.