• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

A new CF, an old vision (2)

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RoseofLima

Guest
there may be a couple reasons why it worked out in there. 1. most of the vocal people in WD are very liberal. There have been tons of posts by people saying they are liberal, and in the prelude to this thread saying they hoped this would happen and CF would become more liberal and not more conservative. 2. Most of the discussions in there have nothing to do with religion at all. Most are about cleaning, cooking, husbands, kids, tv shows, music, pictures, etc. I'm not so sure how this will work in areas where the main topics of discussion are Christian principles and Scripture questions.
Did you have another screen name?? There are lots of discussions about things where things could potentially go very awry...there are often people there struggling to find their way, seeking advice. I personally think it would matter far more in a forum like WD than one that is identified as a debate forum - about who can post. When someone is admittedly struggling and searching for help- they are very vulnerable...and yet things in that forum have gone well. The purpose of going into a debate forum is to debate.

There have been many discussions in WD about the entire gamut of life...yes there are "fluffier" threads, too...but in those threads where people are crying out for help- there has very rarely been an influx of women giving unChristian counsel--whether or not they idientified themselves as liberal- conservative, or non-Christian. It is a place where nearly all of the posters sincerely desire the very best for one another.
 
Upvote 0

Letalis

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2004
20,242
972
36
Miami, FL
✟25,650.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
To the staff voting, perhaps I am optimistic, but I think that members will take it seriously, especially since their votes have actual weight. I can't imagine members voting in trolls as their staff. It would make no sense, and the consequences would be felt primarily by those who voted that staff member in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: praying
Upvote 0

Glass*Soul

Senior Veteran
May 14, 2005
6,394
927
✟46,902.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Ok.. while I think many of the changes will be good, here's my main concern...

In the past, as a staff member I have personally had to handle situations of sexual harrassment and even real life stalking. Discussions had to be held amongst staff as to the best way to confirm/refute allegations when they were made-- which included discussion of sensitive material that should not be public knowledge. What if the accusation is false, for instance? Or victim who already feels victimized and is reluctant to speak out already... and now his/her victimization will be seen by all...

To not have any confidentiality at all causes serious concern for this reason...

I think that's a valid concern.

How do we allow for privacy in situations in which either party can be damaged by a public hearing without setting up a policy of secrecy that can later be exploited to cover up things that should remain public for everyone's protection?

Actually, I think this sort of weighty problem, in which no solution immediately suggests itself, is the perfect candidate for a wikified approach. This group has a pretty rich body of experience behind it. Let's exploit that and come up with some good answers to questions like this.
 
Upvote 0
C

Cerberus2

Guest
Did I read that right, or am I imagining Erwin just said non-Christians are now able to become mods? Wow, that's a big step for you Erwin, I never thought we'ld be lucky enough to see those reforms after the way you've denied them in the past.

Kudos for seeing things our way finally, or at least giving it a shot.

On a side note though, with all these pretty reforms, is there going to be a stream-lined, and hopefully public forum I will be able to review old infractions and bans giving by senior staff members who I feel were less than on the level? Because I have a few of those.
 
Upvote 0
R

RoseofLima

Guest
I think that's a valid concern.

How do we allow for privacy in situations in which either party can be damaged by a public hearing without setting up a policy of secrecy that can later be exploited to cover up things that should remain public for everyone's protection?

Actually, I think this sort of weighty problem, in which no solution immediately suggests itself, is the perfect candidate for a wikified approach. This group has a pretty rich body of experience behind it. Let's exploit that and come up with some good answers to questions like this.
Why cannot PM's just be used in such situations? I also know that mods can meet on IM...
 
Upvote 0

Citizen of the Kingdom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 31, 2006
44,402
14,528
Vancouver
Visit site
✟474,076.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I am sure the Denominational Forums will be restricted to those who believe the doctrines. Other forums will be more open.

Anyway, my home and my local church is my sanctuary. Not CF.
What about the many that have been using it as their sanctuary b/c of NOT HAVING THE OPTION to get to a church. They have just been usurped, no more sanctuary for them.
Well actually according to Erwins post you are wrong there will be no denominational restriction whatsoever.
How does that work? Not that I hung out in the denoms, deeper fellowship I guess is defunct as a Christian only?

This is gonna go over well. :yawn: I'll just grab some popcorn and watch the show. In the meantime, we'll see what happens. I just don't have much hope here.

Bring lots, your gonna be babysitting for all your days here now. :sigh:

True however, you will be supported by other denominational believers who believe such doctrines and explain to those who don't.

Who cares if they give us a hard time. I welcome the challenge.
Confrontation, debate, spiritual enlightenment for all. :doh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrusaderKing
Upvote 0
C

ContentInHim

Guest
"More like different views of the same Jesus, but there are already a lot of different opinions there. It's natural that people have different views, because we're not clones, and each person understands the world around him/her in a different way."

But the views have to have a source that they draw from. If you're drawing from the Jesus depicted in the Bible, then you're going to see a certain Jesus. What it seems is going to happen though is that people are going to read into the scriptures what they want to see rather than what is there. It's called eisegesis and it's bad.
I did so enjoy the view of the self-identifying christian who had decided that Jesus would be having sex with all those in heaven. :eek: It will be interesting to see if she comes back now that her beliefs are as good as anyone elses. She can teach the baby Christians who in this relativistic day and age truly don't know any better.
 
Upvote 0

MrJim

Legend 3/17/05
Mar 17, 2005
16,491
1,369
FEMA Region III
✟50,122.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

He took the easy way out when he should have stood firm. Who benefits from these rules? The libs, the gays, the cults.

Instead of dealing with the issues he threw in the towel and ran away.
 
Upvote 0

ProdicalChristian

Regular Member
Sep 9, 2005
354
19
Somewhere in Midwest
✟579.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What about the many that have been using it as their sanctuary b/c of NOT HAVING THE OPTION to get to a church. They have just been usurped, no more sanctuary for them.

There are plenty of message boards and forums that will serve their purpose. I just ONE Christian message board that is open and allowing God to control the situation rather than man.
 
Upvote 0

Rut

All creation points to the almighty Creator.
Oct 31, 2005
43,794
761
Norway
✟71,960.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Ok.. while I think many of the changes will be good, here's my main concern...

In the past, as a staff member I have personally had to handle situations of sexual harrassment and even real life stalking. Discussions had to be held amongst staff as to the best way to confirm/refute allegations when they were made-- which included discussion of sensitive material that should not be public knowledge. What if the accusation is false, for instance? Or victim who already feels victimized and is reluctant to speak out already... and now his/her victimization will be seen by all...

To not have any confidentiality at all causes serious concern for this reason...


That`s concern me little too.As a nurse I know that when you are a victum you don`t want everyone to know everything but you need to have someone to talk too and maybe get some help
 
Upvote 0

ProdicalChristian

Regular Member
Sep 9, 2005
354
19
Somewhere in Midwest
✟579.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

He took the easy way out when he should have stood firm. Who benefits from these rules? The libs, the gays, the cults.

Instead of dealing with the issues he threw in the towel and ran away.
We can either weed them out or preach the truth and pray that the Holy Spirit convicts them to change.
 
Upvote 0

JesusCovered

There is Power in the Blood of Jesus
Feb 28, 2005
37,024
8,985
✟103,281.00
Faith
Christian
There should be another thread with the same title as this one started by Erwin which has them all in the first post.


Hi all

I need to firstly give all glory to God for all He has done in my life. There is no question that He has blessed me with everything that I have and He deserves all the praise. God is good, all the time, and all the time, God is good.

Exodus 15:11Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

I admit that I have neglected the running of CF for most of the past 12 months. This is because of 2 reason - Firstly, I have been truly busy - my day job is to run a hospital, and that is a very busy job. In addition, I am an elder in my church, and I also sit on various medical and legal committees outside of work. I am also studying a second Masters degree at the moment. I have a busy life.

However, the second reason why I have avoided CF is because CF has become like "hard work" to me - I no longer felt that visiting it was a positive thing. I did not look forward to reading negative posts about the site nor having to deal with PMs from various factions within CF wanting me to do something to support them. I had developed an aversion to the site - I dreaded clicking on my CF bookmark. I was in despair, to be honest. I suspect some of you, including staff members, have felt the same.

But God reminded me:

Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I had to return to my roots. Just as returning to your first love for God is important, I had to return to why I started CF in the first place. The original vision for CF. The vision I have for CF has always been to unite ALL Christians on the Internet. Somehow, the site has ended up dividing some Christians, and caused strife in the body of Christ. It doesn't matter that our intention was good - it is the outcome that matters. Sure, CF has done a lot in the lives of many, but the Bible says:

Luke 15:4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

CF is here for Christians on the Internet, and not the other way around. CF should not try to make Christians conform to what it believes to be Christian. Who am I to judge the heart of another man? I can't. CF should be a place of refuge, as ones who bear the name of the Lord, a strong tower for Christians to feel safe in. It should attract Christians because we raise Jesus up to draw all men unto him.

Proverbs 18:10The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

CF should also be a lighthouse in the wilderness, to be a good testimony to those who are not Christians instead of showing the world that Christians are actually worse than they are.

Matthew 5:13-1413 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

We must be the light, not the ones that block the light.

Are we really helping each other by tearing each other down? Are we really being good witnesses to the world by refusing to let the world in? Are we that afraid of the dark when we have the Light of the world?

The Christian world is a world that is diverse. Make no mistake, we are all different, and we are meant to be that way.

1 Corinthians 12:15-1815 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Instead of putting other Christians down because they do not believe in what we do, because we believe we have the "truth", we should celebrate our similarities and revel in our differences which makes us useful for God to be used in different settings for different people.

We are all part of the same body. One Body. One God.

Okay, enough proselytising.

Let's discuss the "new" CF. One thing to make clear is that these are things that I want happen, and that will happen, and whether staff or members agree with them or not, they are what I believe to be the right things to do. Some, maybe a lot, may disagree, but I believe it's time for a MAJOR paradigm shift at CF.

Unlike what people might have mistakenly expected, the "new" CF is NOT going to happen overnight.

It's going to happen in stages. However, there are mainly going to be 2 stages:

1. The first stage is the CULTURE change stage. This is going to start happening from TODAY but will be an ongoing process. This will involve:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open
b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.
c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.
d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.
h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.
i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

The above outlines the setup of the new rules. A lot of the above cannot happen overnight, and will require some work. But the aim is for culture change at CF.

Many people, including current staff, will not be happy with the above, and some will quit, leave or resign. I bear you no ill-will - you do what you think is right, I do what I think is right. Yes, some of the above changes are controversial, and in fact, radical. But it's time for a total new way of looking at CF. We want to unite all Christians. Not just some.


2. The second stage is the TECHNOLOGY change stage. This is going to start happening over the next MONTH as this will involve extensive recoding and even software replacement. New features will be added. Members would have noticed that we have hit a hiatus in terms of new features being added and CF has not had a new feature for a long time. Well, I am looking at changing this. In the past, I've been the only server administrator, webmaster and coder. I've outsourced the server administration part of things, but there is room to outsource other things. The software behind CF requires a lot of improvements, and this WILL occur. I won't say too much about them because the second stage will be the part that will be most visible and trust me, when it happens, it will be obvious.


In other words, stage one, the culture change, is the change of CF's heart and soul, while stage two, the technology change, is the change of CF's look and body. In my mind, stage one is by far the most important. Both stages are hard to do.

Stage one starts now. Stage two will occur later and will mean some significant functionality changes.

2 Corinthians 1:10-1210 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; 11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf. 12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

Is this it?
 
Upvote 0

MariaRegina

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2003
53,283
14,159
Visit site
✟115,460.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Visit this forum and read the admin notes in the first section:

www.formermuslims.com/forum

I just visited that site and the Admin there posted the thread: WHAT HAPPENED in the ANNOUNCEMENTS AND POLICIES forum. Apparently governmental agents from the Saudi Government hacked into the site and accessed the PMs and destroyed threads. Needless to say, the place was left in shambles. The poster Palestine has not been seen or heard of since. He could have been martyred for his Christian faith.

This is sad and really tells how nasty the Islamic authorities can be. There is no freedom in Islam, and if Erwin opens the moderatorship up to Islam, then we can have terrorists onboard who may hack CF too.

This is a real danger.
 
Upvote 0

ProdicalChristian

Regular Member
Sep 9, 2005
354
19
Somewhere in Midwest
✟579.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi all

I need to firstly give all glory to God for all He has done in my life. There is no question that He has blessed me with everything that I have and He deserves all the praise. God is good, all the time, and all the time, God is good.

Exodus 15:11Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders?

I admit that I have neglected the running of CF for most of the past 12 months. This is because of 2 reason - Firstly, I have been truly busy - my day job is to run a hospital, and that is a very busy job. In addition, I am an elder in my church, and I also sit on various medical and legal committees outside of work. I am also studying a second Masters degree at the moment. I have a busy life.

However, the second reason why I have avoided CF is because CF has become like "hard work" to me - I no longer felt that visiting it was a positive thing. I did not look forward to reading negative posts about the site nor having to deal with PMs from various factions within CF wanting me to do something to support them. I had developed an aversion to the site - I dreaded clicking on my CF bookmark. I was in despair, to be honest. I suspect some of you, including staff members, have felt the same.

But God reminded me:

Jeremiah 1:5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I had to return to my roots. Just as returning to your first love for God is important, I had to return to why I started CF in the first place. The original vision for CF. The vision I have for CF has always been to unite ALL Christians on the Internet. Somehow, the site has ended up dividing some Christians, and caused strife in the body of Christ. It doesn't matter that our intention was good - it is the outcome that matters. Sure, CF has done a lot in the lives of many, but the Bible says:

Luke 15:4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

CF is here for Christians on the Internet, and not the other way around. CF should not try to make Christians conform to what it believes to be Christian. Who am I to judge the heart of another man? I can't. CF should be a place of refuge, as ones who bear the name of the Lord, a strong tower for Christians to feel safe in. It should attract Christians because we raise Jesus up to draw all men unto him.

Proverbs 18:10The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

CF should also be a lighthouse in the wilderness, to be a good testimony to those who are not Christians instead of showing the world that Christians are actually worse than they are.

Matthew 5:13-1413 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

We must be the light, not the ones that block the light.

Are we really helping each other by tearing each other down? Are we really being good witnesses to the world by refusing to let the world in? Are we that afraid of the dark when we have the Light of the world?

The Christian world is a world that is diverse. Make no mistake, we are all different, and we are meant to be that way.

1 Corinthians 12:15-1815 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Instead of putting other Christians down because they do not believe in what we do, because we believe we have the "truth", we should celebrate our similarities and revel in our differences which makes us useful for God to be used in different settings for different people.

We are all part of the same body. One Body. One God.

Okay, enough proselytising.

Let's discuss the "new" CF. One thing to make clear is that these are things that I want happen, and that will happen, and whether staff or members agree with them or not, they are what I believe to be the right things to do. Some, maybe a lot, may disagree, but I believe it's time for a MAJOR paradigm shift at CF.

Unlike what people might have mistakenly expected, the "new" CF is NOT going to happen overnight.

It's going to happen in stages. However, there are mainly going to be 2 stages:

1. The first stage is the CULTURE change stage. This is going to start happening from TODAY but will be an ongoing process. This will involve:

a. Changing the site rules - simpler, less legalistic, and more open
b. Changing the way rules are developed or changed - wikify it! The rules process should be a member-initiated community-propelled, and consensus driven, not something that a minority can decide on.
c. Changing the way moderators are appointed - the members decide! There will be forum moderators, category moderators, and then super moderators. Members nominated, members vote, members appointed. Appointments are for a 12 months - at the end, can be renominated, or not. The power is with the people. And yes, if you are not a Christian, you can be on staff, if people vote for you to do so. The whole process will be open, transparent, and clear. What about current staff? They will all have to be renominated and voted in at some stage.
d. No more warnings. If God can forgive, so can we. Of course, consistent rule-breakers and trolls will still be banned, but hey, that's not going to be avoidable for any site. But not legitimate users.
e. No more restriction of forums for non-Christians - if a non-Christian can walk into a church, a non-Christian can walk and post in any forum here. Some forums may still have gender or age restrictions, but the whole side, as should be any Christian site, will now be totally [OPEN].
f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.
h. Transparent appeals of moderator actions in a much more simpler format - with member input allowed - in fact, the community has a say in all appeals. The way it should be. As the community has written the rules up in the end.
i. No more hidden moderator forums - in fact, no hidden forums at all (except trash forums). If we can read it, you can read it. What is there to hide? If it has to be private, it can be in a PM. This will mean more transparency from all people.

The above outlines the setup of the new rules. A lot of the above cannot happen overnight, and will require some work. But the aim is for culture change at CF.

Many people, including current staff, will not be happy with the above, and some will quit, leave or resign. I bear you no ill-will - you do what you think is right, I do what I think is right. Yes, some of the above changes are controversial, and in fact, radical. But it's time for a total new way of looking at CF. We want to unite all Christians. Not just some.


2. The second stage is the TECHNOLOGY change stage. This is going to start happening over the next MONTH as this will involve extensive recoding and even software replacement. New features will be added. Members would have noticed that we have hit a hiatus in terms of new features being added and CF has not had a new feature for a long time. Well, I am looking at changing this. In the past, I've been the only server administrator, webmaster and coder. I've outsourced the server administration part of things, but there is room to outsource other things. The software behind CF requires a lot of improvements, and this WILL occur. I won't say too much about them because the second stage will be the part that will be most visible and trust me, when it happens, it will be obvious.


In other words, stage one, the culture change, is the change of CF's heart and soul, while stage two, the technology change, is the change of CF's look and body. In my mind, stage one is by far the most important. Both stages are hard to do.

Stage one starts now. Stage two will occur later and will mean some significant functionality changes.

2 Corinthians 1:10-1210 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; 11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf. 12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

Is this it?
Yes..

I am curious to see what stage two is. Something about functionally.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.