A new CF, an old vision (2)

stumpjumper · Jul 7, 2007

Good news Erwin.

I'm sure this will be a bit of a rocky transition but overall I'm sure the change will be positive and beneficial for all.

Q · Jul 7, 2007

GreenMunchkin said:
That's very gracious of you, and I truly appreciate the sentiment, but there's no need.

This thread has been around the houses a thousand times, so this would never be seen as a derailing.

Wrong,this thread is here to talk about Erwin's new vision,when I first joined,this was a better place to be,
and the changes he proposed,are 100% welcomed by me.
Not only the discussion you started,would be derailing,it is also agains the rules in this forum.

That being said, what I said wasn't a discussion point. The issue of the devil's reality isn't open to debate. You can discuss it if you wish to go down the existentialism/willful perception route, but in terms of the *reality* of it, truth is absolute.

The devil is as real as you and I. I fear for you greatly if you don't believe that, as it leaves you vulnerable to him, but that's between you and God.

However, confidently stating he doesn't exist is unacceptable, and not your place to do so. I don't know if it's heretical, and frankly, that's irrelevant. But if you proliferate that mistaken opinion, "it is better that you should have a millstone around your neck."

Am not one for quoting scriptures, but that one's fairly cut and dry. Christians have a joyful duty to encourage younger Christians, and feeding them such dangerous misinformation is fundamentally wrong.

On this we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I pray God blesses you bunches and loads.

You talk a lot,but you ae saying very little.Again,if you want a discussion,please start a thread in the apropriate forum.If you do not feel you have anything to contribute to such a discussion,leave it.

I stated what I believe.You posted accusations,challenged me,it ws your choice to discuss what I said,I am happy to continue,but I will not contribute any further to derailing this thread,and breaking current rules (no matter how much I dislike them).

Pm me the link ,once you start the topic you want to discuss.

*Starlight* · Jul 7, 2007

sabre. said:
I agree with you. *reps*

Thanks!

seekingmyLord · Jul 7, 2007

I just became aware of the new rules and this thread. I have not read all the responses, I just don't have the time.

Here's how I feel as a newbie here:

I think there is some confusion about rules and judgements. Who are we to judge?--this is a saying that is used against Christians and by Christians because of our own beliefs that only God has the right to judge.

BUT, we are not judging anyone when rules are made for a website. They are simply rules. Every church, even every club, I have ever been in has rules about its membership. The people that agree with the rules may become members, those who don't agree can chose not to but still participate in a limited fashion. This site is not defining what a Christian is by its rules, it is defining what a member of the forum is and what a member can do.

With that said, I would like to add. I was looking for a home here a CF. A place to rest with my Christian family and learn a bit more about the minor differences in our religions. Even Jesus just conversed with his inner circle of friends without the crowds from time to time. That was what I hoped CF would be for me, so I am personally disappointed with the rule change.

Ohioprof · Jul 7, 2007

I am a new poster in the Christian Forums. I have enjoyed very much my brief experience posting here. I do not have a history with the old rules, but the new policies sound great to me. There are many different Christian perspectives, and I think all of them need to be aired, as well as non-Christian perspectives.

I have experience posting in other forums, such as the now-defunct New York Times forums. The problem of people calling each other names, putting each other down, and generally being nasty and disrespectful seems to be universal on internet forums. I think this is partly because it's hard to listen respectfully to people with whom we strongly disagree. Many of us spend our lives surrounded by people with whom we generally agree. These are the people we tend to seek out as companions. In a forum like this, we encounter people with widely different viewpoints. That's true even when most of the people posting are Christians. There are many ways to be a Christian.

In a sense, the difficulty of engaging in civil discourse in these discussion forums demonstrates how valuable these forums are. They offer a rare opportunity to engage in discussion and dialogue with people of widely different views on often controversial topics. The moderators clearly have a tough job. But I do not think they should despair simply because people get nasty sometimes. We are humans after all, and we are discussing often very difficult topics that touch our lives personally.

I think the idea of patiently allowing people to make some mistakes and gently pulling people back to civil, respectful discourse is the way to go. I also agree with the leader here that the forums should be open to all viewpoints, without restriction.

I

geocajun · Jul 7, 2007

pgp_protector said:
Well I'm off to catch some ZZZzzzz

But I was thinking about one thing.
A lot of people are worried about the faith icons. My question is how many people have a "faith icon" when they go to church ? I've never seen one personally.

As long as we're eliminating non-parallels to 'real churches' - how many people have an avatar, keyboard, or nickname to hide their real identity when they go to their churches? Should we really be 'counting our blessings' using this blessings system which seeks to tell us the exact number we have? This is outrageous!

(yes, its all a joke)

stumpjumper · Jul 7, 2007

Erwin said:
CF is here for Christians on the Internet, and not the other way around. CF should not try to make Christians conform to what it believes to be Christian. Who am I to judge the heart of another man? I can't. CF should be a place of refuge, as ones who bear the name of the Lord, a strong tower for Christians to feel safe in. It should attract Christians because we raise Jesus up to draw all men unto him.

Amen.

The divisive and factional mentality that dominated CF for as long as I've been a member here is probably the source of most of the problems that are encountered here...

Certain kinds of Christians (conservative, "orthodox" Christians) existed to keep CF a place geared mainly for other people just like them.

CF should be a place welcome to all without restrictions, without investigations/inquisitions into their beliefs, and without judgment.

This place can be a refuge for Christians without making exclusive definitions as to what a Christian happens to be...

Jesus wandered the dirt roads of the ancient near east and the disciples were sent out. They did not create barriers and exempt certain people from their table.

Good news and thanks for the change Erwin...

SpiritPsalmist · Jul 7, 2007

Leanna said:
Honestly I don't see the problem. I don't see why an athiest would go into the denominational forums and cause ruckus. Why? Why do you think that would happen?

Unfortionately, before all the congregational splits that is exactly what was happening. It was also not just atheists and not mainly. Mostly, it was some from one doctrinal group continously attacking another doctrinal group.

Q · Jul 7, 2007

stumpjumper said:
Amen.

The divisive and factional mentality that dominated CF for as long as I've been a member here is probably the source of most of the problems that are encountered here...

Certain kinds of Christians (conservative, "orthodox" Christians) existed to keep CF a place geared mainly for other people just like them.

CF should be a place welcome to all without restrictions, without investigations/inquisitions into their beliefs, and without judgment.

This place can be a refuge for Christians without making exclusive definitions as to what a Christian happens to be...

Jesus wandered the dirt roads of the ancient near east and the disciples were sent out. They did not create barriers and exempt certain people from their table.

Good news and thanks for the change Erwin...

good post

NewToLife · Jul 7, 2007

CF should be a place welcome to all without restrictions, without investigations/inquisitions into their beliefs, and without judgment.

Translated out of liberalese that means that liberals get to do the excluding so that is alright then! This is the big joke with liberalism, its tolerant of everything but any opposition to itself.

Whatever else Cf is now attempting to do its not looking to unite all Christians, you cannot do that by wholesale backing of a factions view ( in this case the liberal faction ) and muzzling of the opposition which of course will continue when you people dont like what was said because it offends against your vision.

catofhope · Jul 7, 2007

JAS4Yeshua said:
I have one last thing I'd like to add before (finally) going to bed. It has been said before, but it bears repeating.
This is Erwin's site. He gets the final say. I trust that he is getting his guidance from the Lord.
He's not perfect, none of us are. But I do believe he is trying to do what is best, for better or for worse.

I am not going to read this whole thread but thought this was worth repeating - yet again.

Prayers for Erwin and all members as the changes take place.

Apex · Jul 7, 2007

RoseyK · Jul 7, 2007

Wow. I just finished reading through the first thread.

I am keeping the CF site, Erwin, the staff and everyone here on CF in prayer.

We all need to remember that God is in control and that He alone knows the Big Picture. Nothing happens without His knowledge.

Jesus gave us two commands to live by: Love God with all your heart. Love your neighbor.

If my Christian friends had not shown me love and acceptance prior to my acceptance of Christ as my Saviour, I would not have known about the true love of Christ. My Christian friends prayed for me for years and patiently awaited God's hand in my life.

We need to stop all this arguing and pray.

KristianJ · Jul 7, 2007

intricatic said:
Erwin's broken our trust. He's destroyed something we've put a ton of work into on a whim and replaced it with a mockery of what it once was. It's his site, so it's his decision to make in the end, I just work here - and that's about all I really feel up to trying to change.

Read this, and read this carefully, all of you crying little disappointed people, because even though I know it'll do nothing to persuade you to cast aside your stubborn and frankly disappointing self centeredness, it's pretty much true.

Your attitude is what seems to be going down the drain. If you disagree with the conditions that you are "working" under, then go, and don't waste your time waaaah-ing about how disgruntled you are, what work and toil you have done, etc. All I read in your post is a selfish cry for sympathy.

Here's what I suggest you do:

- Don't worry about your "alternative' because it seems you have ulterior motives that amount to "I can make a better forum than CF". It's like starting a church and marketing it as the best around to drag people into your fold - it doesn't at all do anything to glorify God, but instead it is even more divisive. Are you more interested in preserving your own pride?
- Talk to God and ask him to show you where you can be effective in reaching the world for the Gospel outside your doors. The people in your community would be better served if you (and all of us who proclaim Christ the Lord) were more active in our immediate community.

Personally, I'm not all too fussed about what's been proposed, because I merely lurk rather than post as much as I once did, but it's just sad that regardless of what's happening, we regrettably resort to a humanistic way of selfishness and substitute an attitude of willing acknowledgement for an attitude of "I don't like it because it doesn't suit me".

I'll be a keen observer of how this turns out.

JulySheMustFly · Jul 7, 2007

Erwin - Just wanted to say I'm praying for your strength and resolve during this time as your judgment is attacked. While I don't understand fully how the culture change will be enforced etc I support it. Maybe even a little idealistically but I don't care.

When we walk into a church we don't know who is what kind of christian or not christian at all.

I for one will not be leaving but then again I'm one of those progressive, post modern half baked liberals who almost left and turned on the church as a result of the behavior of the church. There's food for thought.

I am glad that my "job" as moderator is no longer to determine who is a "real" christian. I don't care if I'm elected as a moderator in the new system or not.

*Starlight* · Jul 7, 2007

NewToLife said:
Translated out of liberalese that means that liberals get to do the excluding so that is alright then! This is the big joke with liberalism, its tolerant of everything but any opposition to itself.

Whatever else Cf is now attempting to do its not looking to unite all Christians, you cannot do that by wholesale backing of a factions view ( in this case the liberal faction ) and muzzling of the opposition which of course will continue when you people dont like what was said because it offends against your vision.

Well, I'm a liberal, and I wouldn't want to exclude conservatives and fundamentalists from posting on CF... so you shouldn't generalize like that. I think that most liberals wouldn't exclude someone for being conservative.

Letalis · Jul 7, 2007

intricatic said:
You don't seem to understand the concept of staff accountability. Just because you can't see what goes on in the background doesn't mean we don't hold staff to the same standards as the general membership in every way. But if you're so concerned with rules and regulations and legalizations, that's your prerogative. We try to run the site as an organic entity and enforce the rules only when absolutely necessary.

I just felt compelled to respond to this post..

First of all, this site is very legalistic in its enforcement of rules. This is not staff's fault, but the system and rules which govern.

To the point of accountability, I have seen what goes on in the background, and there is no accountability.

Staff are accountable in so far as they must obey the rules, but when it comes to taking staff actions against members, there is no chain of command or accountability (especially the higher up you go). Members were basically S.O.L (exceptions, of course).

Leanna · Jul 7, 2007

Letalis said:
I just felt compelled to respond to this post..

First of all, this site is very legalistic in its enforcement of rules. This is not staff's fault, but the system and rules which govern.

To the point of accountability, I have seen what goes on in the background, and there is no accountability.

Staff are accountable in so far as they must obey the rules, but when it comes to taking staff actions against members, there is no chain of command or accountability (especially the higher up you go). Members were basically S.O.L (exceptions, of course).

Amen

RestoreTheRiver · Jul 7, 2007

I've just welcomed a few new members, as is my habit. I said nothing about the "new CF." It seemed more appropriate simply to welcome them, and allow them to find their own way here.

Then, I got to thinking. The changes aren't visible yet. The new members who have come in since the announcement are joining because they're drawn to the "old CF."

Given that, would it only be reasonable and fair for the staff to put a pointer to the "new CF" announcement in the New Members Intro Forum?

I understand that we don't know what the changes will bring. That's what we're all talking about today. Still, the transition between "old" and "new" could easily be both confusing, and perhaps, unintentionally deceptive, for new members.

Michael

faithmom · Jul 7, 2007

Well, when one realizes that in the History of CF, there has probably never been such a fast moving thread, one must climb on for the ride.

Other wise, I just want to say to Erwin, no matter what the changes bring, THANK YOU FOR WHAT CF HAS DONE FOR ME AND MY MARRIAGE. Problems in marriage, and needing the wisdom of those who have been-there-done-that with a Christian perspective, is what brought me here lsat year.

Erwin, you made this site, so I make no judgement or demand regarding where you wish to take it. It is your "visionary baby" so to speak, not mine. Simply, you've been gracious by being willing to share your gift of vision with us.

Again, I thank you for all CF has done.

A new CF, an old vision (2)

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