"A Negative Christ"? (page one of eight)

[tcampen]

"FEAR" as in "REVERE". See Philip2:12-13: "Work out your salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING; for it is GOD who is at work IN you, both to will and to work according to His good purpose."

See also 1Jn4: "There is no fear in love, for fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in We love BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US..."

It is not a contradiction. We are not "terrified of Him whom we serve", but we revere and respect Him. But the essence of salvation, and eternal life, is FELLOWSHIP; founded on love, not fear...

Yes, I understand that concept of "fear" as applied to god, but that is not how it is always used by Christians. When many use the phrase "God fearing" they're really saying behavior motivated by the potential wrath of God, which is not a good thing. It harkens back to the God of the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testiment) where God does a lot of killing. maiming and destroying.

So, while I do appreciate your perspective, I think you might also need to address those others in your camp that use the term fear as in "to be afraid of."

 

[Judi]

Understood. And HE is the same GOD - but HE has provided us a return to HIM through HIS love - through HIS Son - Jesus, the Christ.

 

[Ben johnson]

Ben! Did I tell you I love you? I do!

(Giggling) Too bad you're not single and closer to my age!

 

[Judi]

And just HOW old are you, Sirrah? And are YOU married? I do have a sister...

I just added you to my buddy list! You are my very first "buddy"! Now I have to figure out what a buddy list is and how it is used...

I just discovered "Blessings"! gurk. I can't bless myself, I find! So when I sneeze, I will have to find someone to bless me!

Giggles for a great eternity!

judi

 

[Michali]

Paul once wrote: "It is no longer I that sin, but it is my sinful nature (meaning flesh)." Does this mean that a sin after accepting the Truth is telling you that you aren't truly saved yet? I think not quite so. Sin is commited in the flesh whereas good works are done in the Spirit. No good tree can bear bad fruit and vice versa. The body will perish because of it's crimes, but the Spirit remains anew. When we "died" to our former selves did we destroy our flesh or our old spirit? It is a very confusing subject that I would like to be brought into full understanding. I'm not saying anyone said any of this, but if we can be saved only through never sinning again after accepting Christ, who has met these difficult requirements? Perhaps it is much much simpler than this. Perhaps we become one with the Spirit that resides within us all: God, Christ, the Bretheren and Sisters. Giving servanthood to eachother to complete a unifying utopian community. Not supporting ourselves, but relying and supporting others. Christ himself will serve us all and thereby becoming the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. We are expected to bow down to Christ, as well as to let Christ bow down to us. When Peter told Christ to never wash his feet, Christ said if he didn't wash his feet, he had no fellowship with him. Christ is not tyrannical in any way. The perfect King expects us to be kings before His eyes. Let us be one in Spirit by servants for eachother. Love is the key to eternal life.

 

[Ben johnson]

When we "died" to our former selves did we destroy our flesh or our old spirit? It is a very confusing subject that I would like to be brought into full understanding

For "full understanding" I suggest reading the entire book of Romans. Ch1 --- God is revealed to all, there is no excuse; those who REJECT God, He gives them over to depraved minds. ch2 --- folly of hypocrisy, and what happens to those who've never HEARD of Christ (vs 14-16 -- Jesus is The Law!). ch3 Unbelief, lamentation (quoteing Psalm 53&14) on sinful man. Ch4 FAITH. Ch5, "justification CAME to all men, but only those who RECEIVE Christ are saved." Ch6, BORN-AGAIN defined. Ch7 --- Houston, we have a problem --- old nature DEAD but not GONE; sometimes the old LIVES and we SIN! "Wretched man that I am who will save me from this war (between the NEW GOOD nature and the OLD SINFUL nature)"? Ch 8 --- SOLUTION! Walking in the FLESH (which is death), vs walking in the SPIRIT (which is LIFE!) It turns out that SALVATION is ABIDING IN CHRIST; walking in the Spirit, crucifying the flesh daily. But not "crucifying by effort or will or worksful-acts", rather by "surrendering to HIM and DENYING the old! See COL3:1ff!)

Of course we sin after being SAVED; but we do not sin, CONTINUALLY (practicing). John records in 1Jn3 that "those who PRACTICE sin are of the devil; by this the children of God and the children of the devil are exposed..."

Perhaps we become one with the Spirit that resides within us all: God, Christ, the Bretheren and Sisters. Giving servanthood to eachother to complete a unifying utopian community.

Be careful with this; it is TRUE that "salvation is FELLOWSHIP with Christ and the Father and the Spirit (1Jn1:3,6); but it is OUR SURRENDER/SUBMISSION to Him, not HIS to US. There is a view, called "NEW AGE" --- that asserts "we are indwelt by the Divine, therefore we BECOME divine". Christianity is contrary to this; we are never divine, HE is divine IN US. Succinctly, Jesus did not die because we are special, we are special BECAUSE HE DIED FOR US!

The perfect King expects us to be kings before His eyes. Let us be one in Spirit by servants for each other.

That's actually quite profound; though "He does not expect us to be kings before Him, but rather He expects us to be kings through Him...

Love is the key to eternal life.

And that is the ESSENCE of salvation! 1Jn4: "God is LOVE, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in Him. WE LOVE BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US!!!"

And just HOW old are you, Sirrah? And are YOU married?

WEEEELLLL, I'm 39; and I've only been 39 for ohhh, three or four years now...

And to answer the SECOND question, I defer to the character H. G. Wells in "TIME AFTER TIME", played by Malcolm McDowell; the "PERFECT GENTLEMEN"; Malcolm and Mary Steenburgen walking in the park, Mary's character asked him if he was married. His answer was full of indredulity: "I wouldn't be HERE with YOU if I WAS!" (Meaning I would not tease about looking for a single girl if I was married...)

 

[Jet Black]

This sermon is, really, way beyond good; it is quite excellent. And yet --- it is way too long. This presents a great irony --- those who are spiritual will be inclined to read it (at least skim with comprehension as I have done); but those to whom this IS addressed will NOT likely read it!

too right I'm not. It's like preaching to the choir I'm afraid.

 

[Michali]

Thank you Ben. I like your definition of "practicing sin". It makes more sense that way. Your remarks regarding my thought about Christ's servanthood is alike to that of my own. I never meant to assert that we deserved any of Christ's grace. Now if Christ our supreme King of creation should gird himself and serve us at the table. How much more should we for eachother? Even moreso for Jesus. He really does want to bring us to his level. Of course though: No servant is greater than his master.