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A muslim hell?

Rochir

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We always hear that muslim men receive a whole bunch of virgins when they get to paradise (only under certain circumstances). (BTW - what do women martyrs get? 70+ men?)

What do Muslims get if they go to hell? or rather, does islam have the concept of "hell" or a place where bad people go?:scratch:
 

saladin1970

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hello Rochir,
islam has a very graphic concept of hell. It is very similar to the early christian writings (that were one time considered the divinely inspired word of god), the book of enoch.

If you go to islamictorrents.net you can download a documentary that talks of the book of enoch, along with a few other books such as the gospel of madeline, the early stories of adam and eve.
They are very good reading as they support the unitarian position of christ.

http://www.islamictorrents.net/details.php?id=1500

For many of the faithful, the idea smacks of heresy. But the Bible we know is just one of many versions that surely circulated in the early days of Christianity, and there are several fully-fledged books left out of the "final draft."

BANNED FROM THE BIBLE travels back to the blistering sands of the Holy Land, into the onion-domed chapels of Eastern Orthodox churches and the pages of the Koran on the trail of the chapters that were left out of the ultimate version of the Scriptures. Learn of "The Life of Adam and Eve," a detailed account of the creation story written before Jesus was born that is included in the Koran. The incestuous account of "The Book of Jubilees" was included in the Orthodox Old Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls. "The Book of Enoch" was an ancient bestseller, telling the story of the man said in Genesis to have walked with God and been assumed directly into heaven.

These eight ancient works offer a fresh perspective on the figures at the foundation of faith.
 
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Annoula

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the 72 virgins are now translated into something else, i think some beautiful creatures not specifically virgin females.

as far as i know there is no specific reward for the women.

(it would be an outrage for a woman to get 72 virgin males. a woman is not a man and this is always a problem.)
 
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yaqovzadeek

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saladin1970 said:
hello Rochir,
islam has a very graphic concept of hell. It is very similar to the early christian writings (that were one time considered the divinely inspired word of god), the book of enoch.

If you go to islamictorrents.net you can download a documentary that talks of the book of enoch, along with a few other books such as the gospel of madeline, the early stories of adam and eve.
They are very good reading as they support the unitarian position of christ.

http://www.islamictorrents.net/details.php?id=1500

For many of the faithful, the idea smacks of heresy. But the Bible we know is just one of many versions that surely circulated in the early days of Christianity, and there are several fully-fledged books left out of the "final draft."

BANNED FROM THE BIBLE travels back to the blistering sands of the Holy Land, into the onion-domed chapels of Eastern Orthodox churches and the pages of the Koran on the trail of the chapters that were left out of the ultimate version of the Scriptures. Learn of "The Life of Adam and Eve," a detailed account of the creation story written before Jesus was born that is included in the Koran. The incestuous account of "The Book of Jubilees" was included in the Orthodox Old Testament and the Dead Sea Scrolls. "The Book of Enoch" was an ancient bestseller, telling the story of the man said in Genesis to have walked with God and been assumed directly into heaven.

These eight ancient works offer a fresh perspective on the figures at the foundation of faith.
Salams saladin.
If he needs i have the Torrent and the whole movie too, by the way are you a member of Islamictorrents.
salams
Yaqovzadeek
Aka james the Just
 
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yaqovzadeek

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Rochir said:
We always hear that muslim men receive a whole bunch of virgins when they get to paradise (only under certain circumstances). (BTW - what do women martyrs get? 70+ men?)

What do Muslims get if they go to hell? or rather, does islam have the concept of "hell" or a place where bad people go?:scratch:
Hi Rochir
The Quran gives detailed accounts if Paradise and Hell, there are two chapters that actually go in dept with Both paradise and hell.Chapter 55 the Beneficent and 56 the event explains in depth about Paradise for the Woman and man and it says for the Beleiver so it means forthe man as well as the woman.The pious woman believr will actually be the queen of here husband's paradise, she will be the queen of the Virgins, so the women are in a higher status than the men cos if the Virgins are said to be so beautiful that eyes have not seen, then imagine how beautiful the queen of them will be.
Peace
yaqovzadeek
Aka James the Just
 
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Bookofknowledge

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S Walch said:
But what if her husband doesn't go to heaven

13:20
They are the ones who fulfill their covenant with Allah and do not break their pledge;

13:21
and they are the ones who join together what Allah has commanded to be joined, who fear their Rabb and are afraid of the terrible reckoning;

13:22
also they are the ones who are patient, seek the pleasure of their Rabb, establish Salah, spend secretly and openly out of the sustenance which We have provided for them, and repel evil with good - they are the ones for whom there is the home of the hereafter

13:23
- the Paradise of perpetual bliss: they will enter into it along with their righteous forefathers, their spouses and their descendants. The angels will come to welcome them from every side,

13:24
saying: "Peace be upon you for all that you steadfastly endured in the world. Now! How excellent will be the home of the hereafter!"

-----------------------------

I am not a scholar...

According to the above verses it is understood by my limited knowledge that the believers will be united with their righteous forefathers, their spouses and their descendants.

hence we get clarification that believers will be united with their righteous forefathers and desendants incase the husband ends-up in hell.

S Walch said:
What does she get then? A New husband?

It is also understood by the above verses that the righteous believers will be greeted by none other then "Angels" who will come to them from every side saying "Peace be upon you for all that you steadfastly endured in the world."

Now! How excellent will be the home of the hereafter!

With regards to a new husband, I don't know except "The God gives to His rightieous believers whatever he wills."

--------------------------------

14:18
The parable of the deeds of those who deny their Rabb is that their deeds are like ashes which the wind scatters on a stormy day; they will gain nothing from their deeds, and this is to stray far away from the goal of getting back to Paradise.
 
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arunma

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Rochir said:
We always hear that muslim men receive a whole bunch of virgins when they get to paradise (only under certain circumstances). (BTW - what do women martyrs get? 70+ men?)

What do Muslims get if they go to hell? or rather, does islam have the concept of "hell" or a place where bad people go?:scratch:

Rahma once addressed this issue. She said that women do indeed get 72 men.
 
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HageeFan

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Rochir said:
We always hear that muslim men receive a whole bunch of virgins when they get to paradise (only under certain circumstances). (BTW - what do women martyrs get? 70+ men?)

What do Muslims get if they go to hell? or rather, does islam have the concept of "hell" or a place where bad people go?:scratch:


Well, you're in luck cause hell is one of the most repeatitious things in the Qur'an. So lets take a look and see what Allah has to say. Qur'an 73:11''Leave me(Allah) alone to deal with the beliers(those who deny my verses). Respite those who posses good things for a little while. Verily, with us are heavy shackles(to bind), a raging fire(to burn), food that chokes, and a torturous penalty of a painful doom.'' So according to this Allah will personaly see to it that you're misirable.

Qur'an 9:68''Allah had promised the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers the fire of hell for their abode"therein shall they dwell. It well suffice them. On them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment, a lasting torment.'' Ok, so according to this, disbelievers and hypocrites(peaceful muslims) have been promised the fire of hell, and Allah's curse is upon them.


I'll post more later.
 
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HageeFan

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elijah115 said:
The Muslim Hell is a graphic horror flick - like chamber of horrors etc




You couldn't have been any more correct. Qur'an 56:41''But those of the right hand-how unhappy those of the right hand. They will be in scorching hot wind and boiling water, under the shadow of thick black smoke, neither cool nor agreeable. ... They will be gathered together on a certain day which is predetermined. Then you, the erring and the deniers will eat zaqqoom [a thorn tree]. Fill your bellies with it, and drink scalding hot water, lapping it up like female camels raging of thirst and diseased. Sich will be their entertainment, their welcome on the Day of Doom...The welcome of boiling water and the entertainment of roasting in hell. This is the ultimate truth.''
 
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Theowne

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Certainly that sounds like what was implied, but from an objective viewpoint one must look at the Bible verses about hell too.

"and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured
full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning
sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

"When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a
gigantic furnace."

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tniv/HELL.TXT
 
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HageeFan

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Theowne said:
Certainly that sounds like what was implied, but from an objective viewpoint one must look at the Bible verses about hell too.

"and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"14:10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured
full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning
sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

"When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a
gigantic furnace."

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tniv/HELL.TXT




Yes, the Bible does speak about hell, but It's not very often and the description of hell is for less disturbing. The Bible usely talks about loving your neighbor and stuff around that nature. But Hell seems to be Allah's favorite subject.
 
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arunma

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I'm going to have to disagree with my fellow Christians on this issue (in a loving spirit, of course; I trust that no one will assume I hold hostility against any of you).

Elijah said:
The Muslim Hell is a graphic horror flick - like chamber of horrors etc

The Christian notion of hell isn't any better. It says:
I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (St. Matthew 8:11-12)
There is also the description in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' (St. Luke 16:22-26)
We also have John's description:
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:9-11)
It seems to me that the hell preached by Christ Jesus our Lord, and his Apostles, is not significantly better than the one preached by the false prophet Mohammad.

HageeFan said:
So according to this Allah will personaly see to it that you're misirable.

But Yahweh does the same thing.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (St. Matthew 10:28)
Some mainline Christian denominations teach that everyone goes to the same place after death, and that unbelievers will feel God's love as a torment. But here and in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, it seems clear that heaven and hell are different places, and that God destroys the soul of the unbeliever in hell. In the hell of the Quran, the false prophet Mohammad describes physical calamities such as shakles and poisonous food. But Jesus tells us that God will destroy the very soul of the unbeliever in hell. This is infinitely worse than punishments that afflict only the flesh.

HageeFan said:
Yes, the Bible does speak about hell, but It's not very often and the description of hell is for less disturbing. The Bible usely talks about loving your neighbor and stuff around that nature. But Hell seems to be Allah's favorite subject.

Actually, this isn't the most fair comparison between Christianity and Islam. As my pastor recently pointed out, Jesus discussed hell even more than heaven.

It seems to me that Christians are attacking the Quranic account of hell for the sole purpose of attacking Islam. I would encourage you all to reconsider this position. The Quran makes true statements and false statements. For example, Elijah recently pointed out that the Quran claims that the whole of creation is a sign of God's glory. This is true, for "the heavens declare the glory of God." (Psalm 19:1).

The fact that a book makes true statements does not imply the divine inspiration of the book. Mathematics textbooks also contain entirely true statements, and they are not given to us by God either. The falsehood of Islam is not negated by any true statements which may be in the Quran. Therefore, let us make legitimate polemics against Islam, and not appeal to the unbiblical desires of man in order to prove Islam's falsehood. We know that unbelievers find hell to be an unpopular doctrine, and here were are capitalizing on it in order to discredit the religion.

But beware, for in denying the entire Quran as an utterly false document, we deny whatever truth it happens to contain. How can we attack the Islamic notion of hell, and defend the Christian doctrine of hell? Hell is an important doctrine in Christianity. It is important to make much of the agony of hell, because hell is the just reward for all sin. Emphasizing the torturous nature of hell teaches us the true nature of sin. And more importantly, it teaches us the infinite value of Christ's blood for our salvation. One cannot understand salvation without understanding hell. Therefore, let us not attack Islam in the same way that the world attacks Christianity.
 
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arunma

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QuestionsRob said:
Arunma I thought your last post about Islam / Christian hell was very fair. I like fairness!

Thanks, I also am in favor of consistency in arguing. Besides that, I don't disagree with the Quran's description of hell.
 
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elijah115

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arunma said:
I'm going to have to disagree with my fellow Christians on this issue (in a loving spirit, of course; I trust that no one will assume I hold hostility against any of you).



The Christian notion of hell isn't any better. It says:
I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (St. Matthew 8:11-12)
There is also the description in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.
The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' (St. Luke 16:22-26)
We also have John's description:
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:9-11)
It seems to me that the hell preached by Christ Jesus our Lord, and his Apostles, is not significantly better than the one preached by the false prophet Mohammad.



But Yahweh does the same thing.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (St. Matthew 10:28)
Some mainline Christian denominations teach that everyone goes to the same place after death, and that unbelievers will feel God's love as a torment. But here and in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, it seems clear that heaven and hell are different places, and that God destroys the soul of the unbeliever in hell. In the hell of the Quran, the false prophet Mohammad describes physical calamities such as shakles and poisonous food. But Jesus tells us that God will destroy the very soul of the unbeliever in hell. This is infinitely worse than punishments that afflict only the flesh.



Actually, this isn't the most fair comparison between Christianity and Islam. As my pastor recently pointed out, Jesus discussed hell even more than heaven.

It seems to me that Christians are attacking the Quranic account of hell for the sole purpose of attacking Islam. I would encourage you all to reconsider this position. The Quran makes true statements and false statements. For example, Elijah recently pointed out that the Quran claims that the whole of creation is a sign of God's glory. This is true, for "the heavens declare the glory of God." (Psalm 19:1).

The fact that a book makes true statements does not imply the divine inspiration of the book. Mathematics textbooks also contain entirely true statements, and they are not given to us by God either. The falsehood of Islam is not negated by any true statements which may be in the Quran. Therefore, let us make legitimate polemics against Islam, and not appeal to the unbiblical desires of man in order to prove Islam's falsehood. We know that unbelievers find hell to be an unpopular doctrine, and here were are capitalizing on it in order to discredit the religion.

But beware, for in denying the entire Quran as an utterly false document, we deny whatever truth it happens to contain. How can we attack the Islamic notion of hell, and defend the Christian doctrine of hell? Hell is an important doctrine in Christianity. It is important to make much of the agony of hell, because hell is the just reward for all sin. Emphasizing the torturous nature of hell teaches us the true nature of sin. And more importantly, it teaches us the infinite value of Christ's blood for our salvation. One cannot understand salvation without understanding hell. Therefore, let us not attack Islam in the same way that the world attacks Christianity.


Arunma,

When I made my first reply it was in response to the question posed in the original topic. My reply was very short and to the point. You will note that I did not mention what the bible says about hell, in fact i did not contrast the biblical account of hell with the Muslim view of hell. I know what the bible says about Hell.

Having read the loads of chapters of the Quran, the main adjective which I thought best described the muslim hell is "Graphic". Whether not the bible teaches that Hell exists has no baring on whether or not the muslim hell is or isnt graphic. It's perceptibly "graphic".

By calling it "graphic", it doesn't paint a better picture of Hell in the bible, or glamorise christianity in contrast. I did not suggest emotively that my comments were intended to be compared with the bible teachings. Hopefully you remember that I made the "Commend another religion" thread in which I commended islam for charity teachings.

I recommend that you perform a online search of the Quran for the words "Hell" or "Fire" in order to understand why the term "graphic" was appropriately used.
 
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