A matter of choice....

[Kira Light]

Sorry, but just to clarify.. You had a personal experience with Jesus at a young age? Or the Creator? Are they the same?

 

[StormyOne]

So your knowledge of who God is comes all from personal experience?

Personal experience initially, observation as I got older.... that would be observation of religion (especially adventism since I was born and raised in it), and the bible from the perspective of what He was and was not..... Let me be clear though, long before I began to "study" the bible I had a clear understanding and working knowledge of what the Creator was....

 

[StormyOne]

Sorry, but just to clarify.. You had a personal experience with Jesus at a young age? Or the Creator? Are they the same?

since you wish to explore this, why not start a different thread.... as we are far afield from the topic...

 

[Kira Light]

Personal experience initially, observation as I got older.... that would be observation of religion (especially adventism since I was born and raised in it), and the bible from the perspective of what He was and was not..... Let me be clear though, long before I began to "study" the bible I had a clear understanding and working knowledge of what the Creator was....

I'm still not clear if the "Creator" is Jesus to you.

And to summarize, what I am getting is that you had a personal experience and then you observed Adventism, and that is how you came to have the perspective you do now.

 

[Kira Light]

since you wish to explore this, why not start a different thread.... as we are far afield from the topic...

Eh, I was just hoping to get a few quick answers..

 

[StormyOne]

Eh, I was just hoping to get a few quick answers..

sorry there are no "quick" answers....

 

[AzA]

Some Presbyterian churches not only pay their musicians well, but they serve donuts and coffee in the foyer.

Stormy and Avonia,
Just curious -- are either of you musicians?
P.S. Coffee and donuts in the foyer? Such sacrelege.

Another musician, I suppose. But not a "professional" one. Have several cousins who are though, including one who also plays on Sundays and is paid as a staff member to do so.

From what I've seen looking at my musician friends and relatives, churches' treatments of musicians can swing from "Cinderella" to "Joseph the Favorite Son." Both extremes are unhelpful I think -- "Cinderella" for obvious abusive reasons, and "Joseph" for arbitrarily elevating the gift of music over, say, the gifts of hospitality, encouragement, and pot-washing.

It seems we should select those who appear to have good leadership abilities, and then evaluate their performance. Then provide opportunities to further develop their gifts and mitigate their liabilities. I don't see how sexual orientation affects this one way or the other.

I think that all of us as Christians could do a much better job of "loving the sinner but not the sin," regardless of whether or not we view homosexuality as a sin.

Here is an article I came across this week: "Journey Christians." It makes a similar appeal for relationships of a different order than we usually pursue in Christian communities. I think the approach could and should be applied much more broadly.

For me it goes back to the concepts of discipline, discipleship, and relationship. You can't effectively discipline anyone you're no longer in relationship with. This is one reason disfellowshipping is a very poor substitute for discipline. But that's another thread.

 

[AzA]

Oh, something else I read recently, and also interesting:

"The heavy boy at the airport does not need you to place him in divine custody, suggesting that perhaps while he is there he could lose a little weight... To learn to look with compassion on everything that is; to see past the terrifying demons outside to the bawling hearts within; to make the first move toward the other, however many times it takes to get close; to open your arms to what is instead of waiting until it is what it should be; to surrender the justice of your own cause for mercy; to surrender the priority of your own safety for love -– this is to land at God’s breast." -- Barbara Brown-Taylor

One thing I'm learning to do in my offline circles is not make my relationships dependent on everyone around me converting to my point of view. I don't think conversion is what I'm called to do. Nor do I think that everybody ought to take up the causes I'm interested in (or that I should take up the causes everybody else is interested in). I can see the value of my neighbor's causes, and I hope that, with time, through conversation, she will see the value of mine also. In the meantime I can encourage my neighbor to pursue the work that calls to her, and I'll value her encouragement as I pursue my own work.

 

[Sophia7]

For me it goes back to the concepts of discipline, discipleship, and relationship. You can't effectively discipline anyone you're no longer in relationship with. This is one reason disfellowshipping is a very poor substitute for discipline. But that's another thread.

I agree.

 

[Avonia]

This is one reason disfellowshipping is a very poor substitute for discipline.

Disfellowshipping often feeds the needs of those who do it. It is usually not about the person being disfellowshipped.

 

[BigRedBus]

By now this thread has wandered far and wide from the original question but it has been a really interesting one. Me and my computer have not had enough quality time together recently to enable me to keep up to speed with it, and every time I come back it has moved on somewhere else.

But it’s really coincidental that you’ve posted these last few comments, Avonia and AzA… a new thread has been germinating for a few days now and you’ve just encouraged me to bring it on.

Check out “Disfellowship, Censure and other Sanctions” and have your say, everyone.