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How does a man reaps what he sows fit into the sovereignty of God in salvation and election?
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If you sow "belief" you are saved. If you sow "unbelief" you are... well, you know.How does a man reaps what he sows fit into the sovereignty of God in salvation and election?
sowing and reaping is simply an metaphorical way of saying cause and effect. God is both just and merciful.
If you sow "belief" you are saved. If you sow "unbelief" you are... well, you know.
But I think that verse mostly applies to the temporal world. If I eat too much I get fat. If I don't save enough when I'm young, I'll be poor when I'm old. The opposite being true as well. Stuff like that.
In order to sow to please the Spirit, one must be enabled to do so:
Romans 8:5-9
Andy, I don't think that Paul is referring directly to Salvation with these verses. He is referring to our sanctification (people often confuse the two). We don't contribute ANYTHING to our Salvation, but we do contribute to our sanctification (with the assistance of the Spirit). So, what we sow in the flesh (not of faith) will ultimately parish, but what we sow by the Spirit (in/by faith) will last forever.I too thought it applied to temperal world, but look at the second half of the verse.
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Andy, I don't think that Paul is referring directly to Salvation with these verses. He is referring to our sanctification (people often confuse the two). We don't contribute ANYTHING to our Salvation, but we do contribute to our sanctification (with the assistance of the Spirit). So, what we sow in the flesh (not of faith) will ultimately parish, but what we sow by the Spirit (in/by faith) will last forever.
But yes agreed we don't contribute anything to our salvation.
That sounds like a view Satan would like Christians to have, not that I am calling you Satan.
Think about that.
and this:
Matt 25
40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
But even your faith to believe in Him was a gift, its all from God
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. not by works, so that no one can boast.-- Ephesians 2:8-9
Grace is a gift for all men, that's true. It's what we do with this gift that determines our eternal home. Satan would like you to think you don't have to do anything.
Jesus makes it clear what doing nothing will lead to:
41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Okay so those who do good can obtain eternal life based on their works/efforts?
We know that isn't true.
It is a gift from God,
Grace is a gift from God which enables us to live lives pleasing to him. It does not force us to strive for holiness.
Romans 12
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
He said brothers and sisters, he isn't talking to the World but to the believers in Christ, plus, without the Holy Spirit one can not please God, this text is for the believer only
There are multiple parts to "Salvation". When we talk about Salvation we usually are referring to God's act of justification which of course is the most import part. However, the full complex of Salvation includes other parts. One of these parts we call sanctification which is, according to God's plan, a cooperative venture.I am doing this merely as an excersize for myself, iron sharpens iron, I already have my views on salvation.
Lets look at Eternal Life vs Destruction, one could infer that it does apply to Salvation. But yes agreed we don't contribute anything to our salvation.
He who began a work in you will complete it, so wouldn't sanctification not be a problem to the believer anyway?
So what is the point of this verse?
I think you are right.He said brothers and sisters, he isn't talking to the World but to the believers in Christ, plus, without the Holy Spirit one can not please God, this text is for the believer only
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." ~ Philippians 2:12-13
Now, we know that Paul is not referring here to "salvation" in the sense of "justification" because he has us "working", but instead he is referring to our salvation in the sense of "sanctification". Since God is "in us" helping us to "work" toward the fullness of or salvation.
There are multiple parts to "Salvation". When we talk about Salvation we usually are referring to God's act of justification which of course is the most import part. However, the full complex of Salvation includes other parts. One of these parts we call sanctification which is, according to God's plan, a cooperative venture.
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." ~ Philippians 2:12-13
Now, we know that Paul is not referring here to "salvation" in the sense of "justification" because he has us "working", but instead he is referring to our salvation in the sense of "sanctification". Since God is "in us" helping us to "work" toward the fullness of or salvation.
This is why people get confused, because the word "salvation" is used to refer both to a moment in time and to a process.
The Armenians, the Roman Catholics and others are using verses that refer to sanctification to try a prove their beliefs concerning justification.
It is our job to help get them back on track... if they are able to hear.
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