-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
A little question....
- Thread starter Acolyte
- Start date
Shalom Acolyte,
Those that are Jewish but follow the Christian faith are considered Hebrew Christians, those that are Jewish but believe in Messiah Y'shua and continue following biblical Judaism as taught in the Torah are Messianic. There are also gentiles who have joined themselves to these believers and practice the same ( not all but some).
I hope that wasn't too confusing.
Those that are Jewish but follow the Christian faith are considered Hebrew Christians, those that are Jewish but believe in Messiah Y'shua and continue following biblical Judaism as taught in the Torah are Messianic. There are also gentiles who have joined themselves to these believers and practice the same ( not all but some).
I hope that wasn't too confusing.
Upvote
0
I think I would be the greater heretic to "messianic judaism" here...sorry Hix but I think I beat you on the heretic scale.
and to what Zaiyit said in post #3
there are great varieties of "messianic judaism" and that definition that you give for it alone will include even a Myriad more.
many people, even the so called "Hebrew Christians" like Jews for Jesus who are now calling themselves "messianics" also follow some of the feasts of Bible and believe they are doing things biblically,
So there "Hebrew Christians" are just the same as "Messianics" so what is the difference?
Maybe that one is more Orthodox Jewish than the other?
So which group out of those would be actually recognized as ligitimate messianic Judaism?
To me it sounds like there will be a universalism and acceptance of all (which is not my cup of tea) or it sounds like there will be a fight (similar to the one slightly rearing up its head on these forums) about what exactly is "Messianic" (which sounds alot like the fight on the christian forums between all the different christian sects and the un-needed and wrongly enforced rules and mis-understanding that is going on here. ie like with what happened to "plan 9") [still not my cup of tea!]
I am not one to mind disagreements, but to me it seems that there will be those things that are a common belief but the details of the "common(shared) belief" will easily seperate.
so the superficial looks somewhat ok- but when looking at in detail it will seperate greatly like a chasm- I have experienced that myself
shalomu'brachot
and to what Zaiyit said in post #3
there are great varieties of "messianic judaism" and that definition that you give for it alone will include even a Myriad more.
many people, even the so called "Hebrew Christians" like Jews for Jesus who are now calling themselves "messianics" also follow some of the feasts of Bible and believe they are doing things biblically,
So there "Hebrew Christians" are just the same as "Messianics" so what is the difference?
Maybe that one is more Orthodox Jewish than the other?
So which group out of those would be actually recognized as ligitimate messianic Judaism?
To me it sounds like there will be a universalism and acceptance of all (which is not my cup of tea) or it sounds like there will be a fight (similar to the one slightly rearing up its head on these forums) about what exactly is "Messianic" (which sounds alot like the fight on the christian forums between all the different christian sects and the un-needed and wrongly enforced rules and mis-understanding that is going on here. ie like with what happened to "plan 9") [still not my cup of tea!]
I am not one to mind disagreements, but to me it seems that there will be those things that are a common belief but the details of the "common(shared) belief" will easily seperate.
so the superficial looks somewhat ok- but when looking at in detail it will seperate greatly like a chasm- I have experienced that myself
shalomu'brachot
Upvote
0
Ok, thank you for clearing that up. I have had some Messianics outside this board tell me some off the wall stuff. I mean stuff like, "I am not messianic I am Orthodox Jewish, but I believe Jesus is Messiah"(?) And, "I am a Jewish follower of Christ, but not christian"(?). I knew they aere full of it, just wanted to clarify. I guess thats what I get for hanging around stupid people.
Upvote
0
P_G
Pastor - ד ע ה - The Lunch Lady
- Dec 13, 2003
- 7,648
- 876
- 67
- Faith
- Messianic
- Marital Status
- Married
Acolyte said:Ok, thank you for clearing that up. I have had some Messianics outside this board tell me some off the wall stuff. I mean stuff like, "I am not messianic I am Orthodox Jewish, but I believe Jesus is Messiah"(?) And, "I am a Jewish follower of Christ, but not christian"(?). I knew they aere full of it, just wanted to clarify. I guess thats what I get for hanging around stupid people.
I don't know if they are stupid thats a little quick on the draw Acolyte
There are many reasons some one would prefer to see themselves as Jewish and a Jewish beleiver in Jesus rather than Christian. To the Jew "christians" have had some pretty bad history.
Blessings
Pastor George
Upvote
0
Actually Acolyte, there are those who are Orthodox and Jewish AND believe in Messiah, are you really confused yet ?
I am sorry, I was trying to simplify things as when we get into a full disscusion of who is who it differs if we are talking amoungst ourselves or to outsiders who never heard of MJ.
See, you asked this:
And then there are those hairy tics of which you have been introduced to in this very thread, now who is hairier is up for debate but I can guarantee you if we can get Simchat in here it will be a good one!
I am sorry, I was trying to simplify things as when we get into a full disscusion of who is who it differs if we are talking amoungst ourselves or to outsiders who never heard of MJ.
See, you asked this:
Which is just as cut and dried as it seems. But, for clarification, those here in this part of CF do not consider themselves Christian, nor ( that I know of any) a Christian Sect of Judaism. We do believe that Yeshua was and Is the Messiah, We don't believe He started a new religion with a new covenant.
And then there are those hairy tics of which you have been introduced to in this very thread, now who is hairier is up for debate but I can guarantee you if we can get Simchat in here it will be a good one!
Upvote
0
In Israel things are changing from being called a Messianic Jew or Gentile or christian, now many christians and messianics just simply call themselves " Jewish believers in Yeshua" or "Gentile believers in Yeshua." Most the secular audience is getting used to the change from messianic to believer. Most christians,messianic Jews and Gentiles, etc. celebrate the feasts according to the cultural norm and keep Shabatt. It isn't a big deal, Yeshua is the big deal. We don't call ourselves christians because of the history and connotation , plus christians mean catholic in a sense.Many messianics might be comfortable with christian in Hebrew "nostrim" or nazarene. Ironic hey? that Israelis call christian catholics nazarenes.
Upvote
0
The actions of the majority define a religion,for instance, Islam could have been a peacefull religion but because the majority believe in violence Islam has become known as a religion of hate.
Likewise when you here the word christian what defines a christian?
A christian is somebody that goes to church on sunday,celebrates Christ-mass,Easter,valentines day.
When you think about it that's what a christian is and it's history was spent years in cruisades.
I don't know what to call myself but I'm not a christian,possibly Messianic but I dont believe as all Messianics believe either but I'm real close.
How do you define a Messianic? It's what you celebrate that defines you.
Exodus 13-celebrate my Passover and it will be a sign on your forehead and right hand between you and me and your descendents forever.
:o
Likewise when you here the word christian what defines a christian?
A christian is somebody that goes to church on sunday,celebrates Christ-mass,Easter,valentines day.
When you think about it that's what a christian is and it's history was spent years in cruisades.
I don't know what to call myself but I'm not a christian,possibly Messianic but I dont believe as all Messianics believe either but I'm real close.
How do you define a Messianic? It's what you celebrate that defines you.
Exodus 13-celebrate my Passover and it will be a sign on your forehead and right hand between you and me and your descendents forever.
:o
Upvote
0
christian and messianic are the same word, one is a greek form of the same word and the other is a hebrew form of the same word
Upvote
0
simchat_torah
Got Torah?
- Feb 23, 2003
- 7,345
- 433
- 47
- Faith
- Judaism
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Upvote
0
simchat_torah
Got Torah?
- Feb 23, 2003
- 7,345
- 433
- 47
- Faith
- Judaism
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Moshiach is literally "annointed one". Christos, on the other hand, carries connotations such as "savior" and with Krishna and Mithra previously being attributed to "christos" in the Greek, other connotations (such as deity) were carried over.
Many will state, "Christos is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Moshiach." However, the truth is, the Greek is greatly lacking in numerous ways, and this was the best substitute... not a direct translation. Similar arguments are drawn when examining such comparisons as: nomos vs. Torah
Its not that "nomos" literally means Torah, but it was the best Greek substitute. When using the word "nomos" it was intended to carry the full ramifications of Torah. However, in christian renditions, the translators have chosen to carry over the Greek emphasis of Nomos rather than the Hebrew emphasis of Torah. Thus, Torah (and nomos) are primarily translated as "law".... a grave error.
more later...
shalom,
yafet
Many will state, "Christos is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Moshiach." However, the truth is, the Greek is greatly lacking in numerous ways, and this was the best substitute... not a direct translation. Similar arguments are drawn when examining such comparisons as: nomos vs. Torah
Its not that "nomos" literally means Torah, but it was the best Greek substitute. When using the word "nomos" it was intended to carry the full ramifications of Torah. However, in christian renditions, the translators have chosen to carry over the Greek emphasis of Nomos rather than the Hebrew emphasis of Torah. Thus, Torah (and nomos) are primarily translated as "law".... a grave error.
more later...
shalom,
yafet
Upvote
0
Similar threads
