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A Literal Theistic Evolutionary Reading of Genesis 1

Jamsie

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Bring forth in verse 11 is a different word than bring forth used in verse 24.

Post 95 points that out.

Still baling so a little time for a quick response. It doesn't matter that the words are different as the intent is the same. The decree is to the land not to the vegetation just as it is to the land not to the living creatures. I addressed this with you (or Johan) elsewhere, 1:24 wouldn't say Let the land sprout living creatures...would it? So we are still dealing with the same intent and there is absolutely no immediacy indicated. Remember, God ordained processes ...why do you refuse to accept then as now?
 
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-57

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If Adam was taken from the evolving population....which isn't in the bible....given the breath of life...which made a living creature a living creature doesn't make much sense.
Still, what of the others? The rest of the population. Surely their offspring would still be around today in an unfallen state.

On the other hand, if Adam was a pure act of creation..why not the plants and other animals mentioned in Genesis? Why is one part literal and another part not?
 
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-57

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Why 2 different words? Your problem is now trying to make both words speak of evolution. Considering the problem you are having with just one word....the second word really screws up your theory.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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HI Jamsie,
I was just reading along in Gen 1 and 2, trying to come to terms with the facts of science and the Word, and these words just leapt out at me.
A couple thoughts in reviewing your excellent post.
I believe each of the commands were each made on their own individual day. 6 individual commands spoke on 6 individual days.
Individual days, but not necessarily consecutive days. There were many many days in between each individual creative day.
God spoke the command, but the elements of that command were not necessarily fulfilled completely on that day. We may differ on this. You might say He, by a word or command, empowered and set the process into motion on that day of creation. How long it took to actually come to completion we cannot know. Could have been millions of years.
Also these days were sequential, but not consecutive.

For example, I have had 5 graduation days in my educational career:
On the first graduation day I graduated from Kindergarten.
On the second graduation day I graduated from elementary school.
On the third graduation day I graduated from middle school.
On the forth graduation day I graduated from high school.
On the fifth graduation day, I graduated from college.
Of course these days did not occur one after the other, but one did follow the other in sequence. There were many 24 hour days between each graduation day, but I think you may see what I mean. Again, we may differ here.

So you might say"
First creative Day — light and time (Gen 1:3-5);
Many non-creative days later,
Second creative Day — the sky and “separated” waters (Gen 1:6-8);
Many non-creative days later,
Third creative Day dry ground, bodies of water, and plants (Gen 1:9-13);
Many non-creative days later,
Forth creative Day — the sun, moon, stars, and planets (Gen 1:14-19);
Many non-creative days later,
Fifth creative Day 5 — fish and birds (Gen 1:20-23);
Many non-creative days later,
Sixth creative Day — land animals and humans (Gen 1:24-30; 2:7,15-25).

Again, not really putting this up for debate... just the thoughts of a seeker of truth.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Why is there a need for many non-creative days?
Just like there is a need for many non-graduate days between each graduation. Takes time to actually do the work leading up to the graduation day. It also takes time for the commands to come into fulfillment.
 
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-57

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Just like there is a need for many non-graduate days between each graduation. Takes time to actually do the work leading up to the graduation day. It also takes time for the commands to come into fulfillment.

Why do the commands need such a long time to come to fulfillment?

Secondly if you're trying to say the days represent a long time for evolution to work....your analogy needs to to graduate middleschool before kindergarten as the bible is out of the order inwhich the evo's say things evolved.

Theistic evolutionism adds many problems to Genesis as well as other portions of the bible.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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One could ask why did the fig tree take so long to dry up from the roots? This is just the way the God kind of faith works. You may not see the results immediately. If God commanded the earth to sprout forth plants... how long would that take? I am a gardener. I plant seeds and it make take two weeks before the sprouts "come forth." As to why God chose to do it this way... He may tell us one day. As far as I know the scripture does not tell us why.
 
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-57

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Jonah 4:6 Now the LORD God appointed a plant and made it come up over Jonah, that it might be a shade over his head, to save him from his discomfort. So Jonah was exceedingly glad because of the plant.
....10 But the LORD said, “You cared about the plant, which you neither tended nor made grow. It sprang up in a night and perished in a night.
 
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Jamsie

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Once again as you were previously shown you are attempting to use a singular miraculous incident and expand it to all of the creation account. One example that refutes such was posed with the question did all animals talk because of Balaam's donkey? There are many examples of God's one time miraculous interventions but attempting to somehow link them to the laws of nature that he established at the beginning fails. Do we see plants, trees, shrubs grow up in a night...and perish the next?
 
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-57

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Do we see talking donkeys?
 
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Jamsie

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Just trying to reply to this...
You will note the question mark, so it was a question to you. Since you believe that one can extract verses from various parts of the Bible (Jonah) and apply them to Genesis then I asked the same by extracting a verse (Numbers) and willy-nilly applying it to Genesis. Hopefully you can see that that tactic fails.... that's all!
 
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-57

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No, I was just presenting an instance where God mad a plant quickly. Then I said this is what I thought God did on day 3.
 
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Buzzard3

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The first day was eternity past plus the first day of creation.
It seems to me that Day 1 begins with the words "Then God said ..." in Gen 1:3 ... by which time "the heavens and the earth" were already in existence (v.1).

In that case, the "six days" were a subset of the total creation.
 
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Ragdoll

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While God is light, the light God created was not Himself. There are no ancient scholars who interpret the light as God creating Himself.
 
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Ragdoll

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I also used to interpret Genesis 1:3 as some sort of big bang like cosmology. I changed my view when I read the church fathers on the subject. I knew something was amiss with how I read Genesis Day 1.

Gen.1:1 - God creates the universe, electromagnetic energy and photons, matter and of course water. God is like the Great Carpenter, Who gets out his supplies before building planetary systems. This verse kicks off the first act of God's work of creation. The earth mentioned in this verse is in it's earliest fetal stages of creation.

Gen.1:2 - The earth is without form, shapeless and void. This earth has more in common with a bubble in a lava lamp than it does a spherical planet. God's Spirit moves over the watery blob of the earth. God is about to create something for the earth. Now if God decides to pull off some big bang so close to the earth, then the earth will be destroyed and water vaporized.

Gen.1:3 - God creates the earth's core. The earth is now becoming a living planet that can sustain life, as God created the earth for the purpose of being inhabited. The earth's core is the light of life to a planet where vast vegetation will grow and how the soil will provide nutrients to sustain all plant and tree life. And as the core begins to churn...

Job 38:14 - ...the earth takes shape like clay to the seal.

Gen.1:4-5 - These verses are traditionally understood as the earth's first full rotation as a spherical planet. God is creating the day-night cycle. The separation of light and darkness are guaged by the rotation of the earth. But this separation of light and darkness doesn't reach fruition until Day 4. God here is planning everything out in careful steps to assure that life will be sustained on earth. We know of no other planet that has life on it. God knows what He's doing. We have no scientists anywhere in the world who can build a planet.

Day 2 - God continues creating the earth. So there is no big bang cosmology in Genesis. Gen.1:3 is not a big bang nor can it be when God is moving over the earth, being close to the earth. Also, the earth was not created before the universe. God created both the universe and the earth on the same Day in the first verse of Day 1. And last, the big bang cosmology has sun, moon and stars right away. In Genesis, the sun, moon and stars were not created until Day 4, after the universe already existed. But the universe before Day 4 was a dark place.

COMMENTARY ON GENESIS CHAPTER ONE: A Scientific Harmonization of Creation Week | Christian Forums
 
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