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He summarizes in here the many differing views of Matt 16:18 amongst the fathers...Good read!I am guilty of using Newadvent a lot.
But I also use Wikipedia (not the best I know).
Another is Catholic Answers.
I will look up this Schaff guy.
I doubt he is on a level with Thomas Aquinas though.
He summarizes in here the many differing views of Matt 16:18 amongst the fathers...Good read!
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc3.iii.viii.xiv.html
Yes that is him! And actually trento to an infamous degree misquotes Schaff to give the appearance that Schaff confirms Romes teaching! he is able to do this because of Schaffs even handed approach to history but upon further study you'll see these are all out of context cut-n-pastes taken from internet apologists...Before I read this I would like to know who this Schaff dude is???
Are you speaking of Philip Schaff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Schaff
Also, if Trento has referenced him itis to show a protestant confirming a Catholic Teaching and not necessarily that Trento believes in all he has to say. You know what I mean too.
Yes that is him! And actually trento to an infamous degree misquotes Schaff to give the appearance that Schaff confirms Romes teaching! he is able to do this because of Schaffs even handed approach to history but upon further study you'll see these are all out of context cut-n-pastes taken from internet apologists...
I've not ONE time found Schaff to quote fathers out of context and I doubt you will either!
It's a valuable tool!
It's a valuable tool!
No, when Trento and you quote Schaff you are quoting him completely out of context to make it appear that he is confirming a Catholic teaching. I've debunked Trento numerous times when he quotes Schaff.Before I read this I would like to know who this Schaff dude is???
Are you speaking of Philip Schaff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Schaff
Also, if Trento has referenced him itis to show a protestant confirming a Catholic Teaching and not necessarily that Trento believes in all he has to say. You know what I mean too.
I have a problem with this:
Quote "Gregory the First, or the Great, the last of the Latin fathers and the first of the popes, connects the ancient with the mediaeval church, the Graeco-Roman with the Romano-Germanic type of Christianity."
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/4_ch04.htm
What does he mean by "first of the Popes"???
Seriously Jack I think his comment comes from him being the first to actually be recorded as claiming papal primacy for Rome...YOU mean the truth he speaks when he says the 1st of the popes??
My Dr. Shelly book at home gives numerous references to this same fact I'll try and post them later!
No, when Trento and you quote Schaff you are quoting him completely out of context to make it appear that he is confirming a Catholic teaching. I've debunked Trento numerous times when he quotes Schaff.
YOU mean the truth he speaks when he says the 1st of the popes??
My Dr. Shelly book at home gives numerous references to this same fact I'll try and post them later!
Seriously Jack I think his comment comes from him being the first to actually be recorded as claiming papal primacy for Rome...
Note that the Council holds Nestor deposed. Pope Coelestine held a synod in Rome in which he condemned Nestorius. He then wrote to Cyril informing him of this decision. Importantly, Cyril convened a council in Alexandria to discuss the issues raised in the Pope's letter, and they too discussed the issue and then also condemned Nestorius.
This is important, because even though the "Pope" had ruled on this, and had informed Cyril, Cyril did not just follow the Popes lead, but instead called a council of those in his own See. This was because as Cyril understood it, he was the chief of his own area. What was ruled in Rome did not affect him. Surely, it did influence him, but the findings in Rome did not mean that the whole church immediately thought the issue was settled.
Rome and Rome alone...Re-read my post for a better understanding! Not for Cyrils area!You are trying to imply that Pope St. Celestine did not speak on behalf of Rome alone.
.
Rome and Rome alone...Re-read my post for a better understanding! Not for Cyrils area!
Blinded to the truth! Even with it glaring you in the face!I would like to add that even if he said for Rome then all other regions would follow Rome. Rome is where the church has always looked for guidance.
Blinded to the truth! Even with it glaring you in the face!
His qualifications are unmatched, read him for an even handed opinion...Philip Schaff is a 19th century Protestant that had an education but I cannot see him as qualified for speaking fully on Church History. Right?
But I would entertain any notions you wish to bring to the table regarding Schaff.
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