A Letter From An Atheist

crimsonleaf · Nov 14, 2011

plindboe said:
It's funny how nearly everyone claiming to be an ex-atheist doesn't seem to have the faintest clue about what atheism is.

Peter

I'll pick on you because your the first post on my last page. I have every idea what being an atheist means, not what you claim it is. I was an atheist for 11 years, actively fighting my corner on this and other fora. Atheists come in various shapes and sizes from the apathetics who don't think it through to the atheistic philosophers who clearly do.

Following your post you'll note a number who comment in a similar vein to you. You'll also note that although they disagree (as you do) none is brave enough to venture an answer as to why I'm wrong.

It's funny how nearly everyone claiming to be an atheist doesn't seem to have the faintest clue about what atheism means.

Jazer · Nov 14, 2011

crimsonleaf said:
It's funny how nearly everyone claiming to be an atheist doesn't seem to have the faintest clue about what atheism means.

Can any of the atheists claim that they were born that way?

Orogeny · Nov 14, 2011

Put Up or Shut Up said:
Every baby born on this planet is born an Atheist.

Moreover, every baby born on this planet is born an agnostic atheist.

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

Put Up or Shut Up said:
Every baby born on this planet is born an Atheist.

Including Jesus?

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

Orogeny said:
Moreover, every baby born on this planet is born an agnostic atheist.

Including Jesus?

Davian · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Oh! I do! I think!

Atheism is the belief...

It didn't make sense to me after this part.

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

Davian said:
It didn't make sense to me after this part.

Well ... seeing as you're an ignostic ... was it supposed to?

Lord Emsworth · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Including Jesus?

The question was directed at atheists. So, yeah, obviously and necessarily so.

Davian · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Why would it? you're an atheistic evolutionist.

I thought we were discussing cosmology?

And how are we going to make progress if you constantly avoid the bulk of my post? I don't put it there as filler.

What is it with you and galaxies? They are everywhere, you know.

AV1611VET said:
But consider this, if you can, suppose it is God's will that we observe that star that He placed 30 billion light years out?

Now does it make sense to you?

No.

Does this mean I would only imagine seeing it? A trick of some sort?

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

Orogeny said:
Moreover, every baby born on this planet is born an agnostic atheist.

Just out of curiosity, Orogeny, according to your belief, is a baby that has gone through infant baptism no longer an atheist?

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

Davian said:
No.

Have a good day.

FrenchyBearpaw · Nov 14, 2011

crimsonleaf said:
I'll pick on you because your the first post on my last page. I have every idea what being an atheist means, not what you claim it is. I was an atheist for 11 years, actively fighting my corner on this and other fora. Atheists come in various shapes and sizes from the apathetics who don't think it through to the atheistic philosophers who clearly do.

Following your post you'll note a number who comment in a similar vein to you. You'll also note that although they disagree (as you do) none is brave enough to venture an answer as to why I'm wrong.

It's funny how nearly everyone claiming to be an atheist doesn't seem to have the faintest clue about what atheism means.

What's the question? I'll venture.

Davian · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET said:
Have a good day.

Well, that about wraps it up for God.

LOCO · Nov 14, 2011

mathclub said:
Dear Theists,

I don't care.

I believe in evolution, the big bang theory and germ theory. I believe that the earth is somewhere around 4.5 billion years old and that the universe is close to 14 billion years old. I believe that we evolved from some type of primate type mammal, and that the other primates are our closest relatives. I believe that the earth is round, and spins through space on an orbit around the sun. I believe that gravity holds us to this planet, but that our model of it is far from perfect. I believe that life started on this planet of it's own accord, with no outside help.

But at the end of the day, I don't care.

I don't care if evolution is rejected by the scientific community one day. I don't care if the big bang theory is flushed down the toilet. I don't care if germ theory is thrown out with yesterdays trash. None of my beliefs about any of your gods have anything to do with any of this. None of my rejection of the myriad of god tales has anything to do with anything I have listed above, or any other scientific fact.

I don't believe in any version of god(s) that I have ever heard, because all of it sounds ridiculous and stupid to me, and there is not the slightest bit of evidence to support any of it. Your god has never spoken to me, revealed himself to me or had anything to do with my life. So why would I believe?

But I get it.

I get that if evolution is true that your bible is shown to be a pack of lies. I get that if scientists show beyond all doubt that the big bang created the universe that your koran is shown to be factually incorrect. I get that these scientific theories attack the very foundation of your belief, and show it to be the patchwork of myths, lies, tales and stories that it actually is. I get that this science is threatening to you, and compels you to attack it in defence of your religion.

I get that you don't understand what a false dichotomy is, that you somehow think if you can prove evolution or the big bang is not true that you misguidely think that it somehow makes your particular religions creation myth more correct than another religions creation myth.

You could disprove any of the theories mentioned here, or any other scientific theory you care to name, but at the end of the day exactly NONE of my belief system is based upon any of these facts the way your religion is based on your creation myth. So guess what?

I don't care.

Dear Mathclub,

It appears you know as little about Christians as you do about Science.

1. A majority of Christians believe in evolution (TE), Big Bang Theory (developed by a Priest) and germ theory.

2. Evolution is a fact. It is not a rung on an ascending ladder of certainty. What scientists may disagree on is the points on certain Theories of Evolution. Sometimes people jump on that as proof that evolution is false.

3. I believe evolution is a fact and it still doesn't prove that the entire Bible is a pack of lies. No historian who deals with the authenticity of documents would agree with you. The Bible has historical events, poetry, historical figures and prophecies. Some verses are meant to be interpreted literally, others not. It is Scriptural text not a science textbook. You are falling into the same trap that IDers and YEC have?

Not sure why you feel the need to say 'I don't care' so often in your post. It is a reflection of your state of mind though. Combative and unconciliatory, I'd say.

timatter · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET- "But consider this, if you can, suppose it is God's will that we observe that star that He placed 30 billion light years out?"
In 1987 we observed a SuperNova explode (SN1987) that is about 160,000 light years away from Earth. It actually exploded 160,000 years ago, but the light first reached us in 1987. If the universe was created 6000 years ago, and the light from that star was created already on the way to us, we saw a star in 4004 BC, and 33 AD and all the way until 1987 when we saw the star explode. If that is how it happened, God created that light on the way to bear false witness of a star that never existed. Most people don't think their God is deceptive. I can't find any way around the distant starlight problem. The light from some stars probably did take Billions of years to get to us and the universe probably is really Billions of years old.

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

timatter said:
In 1987 we observed a SuperNova explode (SN1987) that is about 160,000 light years away from Earth. It actually exploded 160,000 years ago, but the light first reached us in 1987.

I'm not going to debate this with an agnostic, Timatter.

Especially one that is content to remain behind a question mark.

Take Split Rock for example. He's been behind a question mark since I've known him, yet he is anything but a question mark.

For all this knowledge -- and I assume he is very knowledgeable -- he is still an agnostic, and will probably die one -- (although I hope not).

In any event, just so you can have something to automatically deny -- (which every good agnostic does, doesn't he?) -- here's a tidbit for you to ridicule:

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psalm 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

Outer space talks to us, using a language that agnostics and other types of unbelievers are unfamiliar with.

God created these events to be a message to us as to what sin does.

What you see as a supernova, we see as a star -- actually a home to angels -- (but skip that, it's over your head) -- we see an angel's home demolished; probably because he "left his first estate" and came to earth and cohabited with women.

Yes, the former tenant of SN1987 is now "reserved in chains of darkness", and his home destroyed because of a terrible choice he made to follow Lucifer in a rebellion that will never succeed.

Having said all this -- have a nice day.

timatter · Nov 14, 2011

LOCO- "It appears you know as little about Christians as you do about Science." I do know about Christians here in the U.S. and a disturbingly high percentage do deny Evolution, the Big Bang, geology, and a host of other sciences. Not too many deny the Germ Theory. About 40-50% deny Evolution. Many preachers even demand people choose one or the other. Both can't be true. A 2010 Gallop poll revealed that 40 percent of Americans still believe that humans were created by God within the last 10,000 years.
"You are falling into the same trap that IDers and YEC have?" Almost half of Americans have fallen into that trap. It is very much believed here. The Christian Homeschooling textbooks are almost exclusively Young Earth Creationist. Tell me if I'm being too pessimistic. I'd like to be wrong on this.

AV1611VET · Nov 14, 2011

timatter said:
"You are falling into the same trap that IDers and YEC have?" Almost half of Americans have fallen into that trap. It is very much believed here. The Christian Homeschooling textbooks are almost exclusively Young Earth Creationist. Tell me if I'm being too pessimistic. I'd like to be wrong on this.

Interesting choice of words for an agnostic, in my opinion; but even agnostics cater to current scientific paradigms.

LOCO · Nov 14, 2011

timatter said:
LOCO- "It appears you know as little about Christians as you do about Science." I do know about Christians here in the U.S. and a disturbingly high percentage do deny Evolution, the Big Bang, geology, and a host of other sciences. Not too many deny the Germ Theory. About 40-50% deny Evolution. Many preachers even demand people choose one or the other. Both can't be true. A 2010 Gallop poll revealed that 40 percent of Americans still believe that humans were created by God within the last 10,000 years.
"You are falling into the same trap that IDers and YEC have?" Almost half of Americans have fallen into that trap. It is very much believed here. The Christian Homeschooling textbooks are almost exclusively Young Earth Creationist. Tell me if I'm being too pessimistic. I'd like to be wrong on this.

Well there are 2billion Catholics in the world, the majority of Christians are Catholic. We do not interpret Genesis literally as the original Jewish authors never did.

It is a moot point for Catholics, as believing in Evolution or Creationism is not salvific, in other words it is not a Doctrine. It does not determine whether you are a Christian or not or Heaven or Hell as a final destination.

I don't think religions should mess with Science in schools. Religion is philosophical and theological in nature. Science is a separate branch.

timatter · Nov 14, 2011

AV1611VET- "What you see as a supernova, we see as a star -- actually a home to angels -- (but skip that, it's over your head) -- we see an angel's home demolished; probably because he "left his first estate" and came to earth and cohabited with women." I don't think many people would agree with you on that theology.
I can give more detail than the question mark. If I put a label on it I guess it would be Agnostic/Atheist. I don't know if there is a God, but probably not. What I'm most sure of is that it isn't the one described in the Old Testament and for many different reasons. A few reasons: His followers keep denying things that we found out for sure about the cosmos, the world, history, etc, and make afterlife threats to try to get me to believe too. What they are asking for is cowardice from this ex-Army tank gunner.

A Letter From An Atheist

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