A hymn that actually worships Mary as God

Swag365

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The angel stated a fact, and passed along a message. She was most highly favored because of whom she would give birth to. It is a common thing in scripture where God chooses people who are not worthy of the honor. Since it is a favor, it wasn't earned.
Well I think she deserves a little credit. She said yes to God’s call. She did not have to.

But since we are playing semantics now the next time someone objects to a Catholic song I’ll just say “just stating the facts folks”.
 
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Swag365

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Mary is the mother of Jesus' human body. The reason for the forming of the Mother of God doctrine was because gnostics would commonly claim Jesus was not human, but a ghost.

Your sentiment is replied to by Luke 8:20-21
Mary is the mother of Jesus, no?

And Jesus is God.

I think you can put 2 and 2 together from there.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Well I think she deserves a little credit. She said yes to God’s call. She did not have to.

But since we are playing semantics now the next time someone objects to a Catholic song I’ll just say “just stating the facts folks”.
I appreciate the civil discussion and for the prayers.

God bless.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Mary is the mother of Jesus, no?

And Jesus is God.

I think you can put 2 and 2 together from there.
Jesus is 100% human because Mary, Jesus is 100% God because God.
 
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Michie

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Before explaining to you, my dear friend, Catholic doctrine and practice regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary, let me state two truths that the Church teaches most emphatically: (1) God alone, the Supreme, Infinite Being, must be adored. To adore any creature, however exalted, would be to commit idolatry. It is simply absurd and also grossly unfair to say that Catholics adore Mary. (2) Jesus Christ alone is our Mediator of Redemption. He alone, by his supreme sacrifice, of infinite value, redeemed and ransomed mankind.

What Honor May be Shown to Mary?
If God alone is to be adored, if Christ alone is to be worshiped as our Mediator of Redemption, may any honor be shown to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, and, if so, what kind of honor?

There is an innate law engraven on the human heart that dictates that special honor should be shown to creatures who are clothed with a special dignity. Children must honor their parents; servants must revere their masters; soldiers must respect their officers; subjects must show loyalty to their rulers. God himself has, in fact, positively commanded, in his revelation to man, this honor that the natural law prescribes. Our non-Catholic friends, following reason and accepting the teaching of the Bible, cannot but admit this principle or truth. Thus it is as clear as day that, besides the supreme honor that we give God, and which we term adoration, there is an inferior honor that we not only may but must show to all creatures who are clothed with special dignity.


What, then, must be said of our duty of honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary, whose dignity as far transcends that of any other creature as heaven excels earth? . . .

Of all creatures Mary has the unique privilege of adoring her own Child. To Mary alone can God the Son address the sweet title Mother! What a marvelous dignity, then, was conferred on the humble Virgin of Nazareth!

Scripture Teaches Devotion to Mary
I ask you, my dear friend, to read carefully the first chapter of the Gospel of St. Luke, verse 26 to verse 55. It is very hard to understand how any Christian can study this passage and then refuse to honor Mary. Why, the “Hail Mary,” which Catholics love to address to the Blessed Virgin, is explicitly given there; part of it was said by the angel Gabriel and part by Elizabeth. The angel was inspired by God and Elizabeth “was filled with the Holy Ghost” (v. 41). Let us put together the words that the angel Gabriel and Elizabeth addressed to Mary: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed are thou among women” (v. 28). “Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” Here we have the salutation that Catholics address to Mary. The only addition we have made are the two names, “Mary” and “Jesus.” So that, in saying the Hail, Mary, Catholics are explicitly following the Bible. I shall deal with the second part of this prayer presently.

You will notice, my dear friend, that Mary in that sublime canticle known as the Magnificat, which is recorded by the inspired writer from verse 46 to 55, declared: “Behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” (v. 48). Who, I ask, fulfills this prophecy: those who refuse to apply the adjective blessed to the Virgin Mary, or Catholics, who love to call Mary the Blessed Virgin?

Invocation of Mary
Not only do we honor Mary; we also invoke her or ask her intercession. Some objectors say that we should pray to God alone. Well, Catholics certainly pray directly to God, for they regard the Our Father as the best and most beautiful of all prayers and frequently recite it. But they pray also to Mary, asking her to intercede for them with her divine Son.

Our non-Catholic friends ask one another’s prayers, and in this we praise them. But, if I may say to a sinner on this earth, and he may say to me, another sinner, “Pray for me,” for what reason may we not say to the sinless Mother of God enthroned in heaven, “Pray for us”? If St. Paul asked the Romans to “help him in their prayers for him to God” (Rom. 15:16); if he wrote to the Thessalonians, “Pray for us,” why may we not ask Mary, who is far holier and nearer to God than the Roman and Thessalonian converts, to “pray for us”? In fact, we read in the Old Testament that God positively commanded Eliphaz and his two friends to go to the holy man Job and seek his intercession: “My servant Job shall pray for you; his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you” (Job 42:8).

Therefore Catholics act aright when they say: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”

Statues and Pictures of Mary
But why, someone may ask, do Catholics have statues or pictures of Mary in their churches and homes? Is it not against the first (or second) commandment to make graven images? No, it is against God’s laws to adore images, not to make them; otherwise we should have to abolish all such things as dolls, for are they not “graven images”? And does anyone imagine that it is against the first commandment to make dolls or to give them to children? God even commanded the making of certain images in the Old Law, as we read in various parts of the Old Testament. For instance, he ordered Moses to make two cherubim (angels) of beaten gold (Ex. 25:18).

If non-Catholics approve of the making and erecting of statues of Queen Victoria or King Edward or General MacArthur or Charles Dickens or Roosevelt (and in this we agree with them), how can they possibly see anything objectionable in making a statue of the Blessed Virgin, Mother of the King of kings, and putting it in a prominent place? We ask our friends outside the Church to be fair and not to attempt playing “Heads I win, and tails you lose.”

As to the custom of lighting candles and placing vases of flowers before the statue or picture of the Blessed Virgin, no person can reasonably object to this practice who would approve of a college boarder plucking flowers, arranging them nicely in vases, and putting them in front of her mother’s photo, which she had placed on the mantelpiece in her room. If the latter is a praiseworthy practice—as every person endowed with reason and affection admits—surely the former custom is equally laudable. Likewise, if a child may laudably kiss the photo of her absent mother, in order to show her love for her (though the child well knows that the photo itself is an inanimate, unresponsive object), so Catholics are worthy of praise when they kiss a picture or statue of Mary in order to express the love they have for the living Queen of Heaven, whom the image represents. . .

Protestant Poets and Devotion to Mary
Devotion to Mary is so beautiful a practice and fits in so harmoniously in the plan of the Christian religion that the Christian soul, untrammelled or untainted by prejudice, instinctively recognizes its truth. I have not infrequently been struck by the fact that Protestant children, who have as yet been given no bias against this devotion, quickly perceive its loveliness and are strongly attracted by it when once they are given even an elementary idea of it. And even more mature non-Catholic children are sometimes at a loss to know why they have been turned against such a sweet, appealing devotion. I once heard a Presbyterian girl of twelve, who had seen a picture of Our Lady of Good Counsel, ask her mother: “Why don’t Protestants honor the Mother of Jesus?”

Poetry helps men to shed prejudice, and so we find certain Protestant poets, in their moments of poetic rapture, writing exquisite things about the Blessed Virgin. The following beautiful lines come from the pen of Wordsworth:

Mother whose virgin bosom was uncrossed
With the least shade of thought to sin allied.
Woman! above all women glorified,
Our tainted nature’s solitary boast;
Purer than foam on central ocean tossed;
Brighter than eastern skies at daybreak strewn
With fancied roses; than unblemished moon
Before her wane begins on heaven’s blue coast.

Longfellow, another non-Catholic poet, has given us a lovely poem:

This is indeed the Blessed Mary’s land!
Virgin and Mother of our dear Redeemer;
All hearts are touched and softened at her name;
Alike the bandit, with the bloody hand,
The priest, the prince, the scholar, and the peasant,
The man of deeds, the visionary dreamer,
Pay homage to her as one ever present!
And even as children who have much offended
A too-indulgent father, in great shame,
Penitent, and yet not daring unattended
To go into his presence, at the gate
Speak with their sister, and confiding wait
Till she goes in before and intercedes;
So men, repenting of their evil deeds,
And yet, not venturing rashly to draw near
With their requests an angry father’s ear,
Offer to her their prayers and their confession,
And she for them in heaven makes intercession.
And if our faith had given us nothing more
Than this example of all womanhood,
So mild, so merciful, so strong, so good,
So patient, peaceful, loyal, loving, pure,
This were enough to prove it higher and truer
Than all the creeds the world had known before.

Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
 
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Swag365

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Jesus is 100% human because Mary, Jesus is 100% God because God.
I really don’t see why so many people object to “Mother of God.” Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus’s mother. Thus Mary is the mother of God. “Just stating the facts,” no?

Practically nobody in the 2000 year history of Christendom has ever interpreted that phrase to mean that Mary created God, or that God did not preexist Mary. So what’s the issue?
 
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YeshuaFan

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Mary is not God or in any way divine, nothing in scripture tells us to pray to Mary. we are not to pray to anyone other than God otherwise it is idolatry Gods word and spirit is 100% clear. veneration and praying to Mary or saints or any other person dead or alive is idolatry. and praying to statues of Mary is pagan idolatry, graven image, and blasphemy.
agreed, ONLY the Truine God is to be worshipped !
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Before explaining to you, my dear friend, Catholic doctrine and practice regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary, let me state two truths that the Church teaches most emphatically: (1) God alone, the Supreme, Infinite Being, must be adored. To adore any creature, however exalted, would be to commit idolatry. It is simply absurd and also grossly unfair to say that Catholics adore Mary. (2) Jesus Christ alone is our Mediator of Redemption. He alone, by his supreme sacrifice, of infinite value, redeemed and ransomed mankind.

What Honor May be Shown to Mary?
If God alone is to be adored, if Christ alone is to be worshiped as our Mediator of Redemption, may any honor be shown to Mary, the Mother of Jesus, and, if so, what kind of honor?

There is an innate law engraven on the human heart that dictates that special honor should be shown to creatures who are clothed with a special dignity. Children must honor their parents; servants must revere their masters; soldiers must respect their officers; subjects must show loyalty to their rulers. God himself has, in fact, positively commanded, in his revelation to man, this honor that the natural law prescribes. Our non-Catholic friends, following reason and accepting the teaching of the Bible, cannot but admit this principle or truth. Thus it is as clear as day that, besides the supreme honor that we give God, and which we term adoration, there is an inferior honor that we not only may but must show to all creatures who are clothed with special dignity.


What, then, must be said of our duty of honoring the Blessed Virgin Mary, whose dignity as far transcends that of any other creature as heaven excels earth? . . .

Of all creatures Mary has the unique privilege of adoring her own Child. To Mary alone can God the Son address the sweet title Mother! What a marvelous dignity, then, was conferred on the humble Virgin of Nazareth!

Scripture Teaches Devotion to Mary
I ask you, my dear friend, to read carefully the first chapter of the Gospel of St. Luke, verse 26 to verse 55. It is very hard to understand how any Christian can study this passage and then refuse to honor Mary. Why, the “Hail Mary,” which Catholics love to address to the Blessed Virgin, is explicitly given there; part of it was said by the angel Gabriel and part by Elizabeth. The angel was inspired by God and Elizabeth “was filled with the Holy Ghost” (v. 41). Let us put together the words that the angel Gabriel and Elizabeth addressed to Mary: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed are thou among women” (v. 28). “Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.” Here we have the salutation that Catholics address to Mary. The only addition we have made are the two names, “Mary” and “Jesus.” So that, in saying the Hail, Mary, Catholics are explicitly following the Bible. I shall deal with the second part of this prayer presently.

You will notice, my dear friend, that Mary in that sublime canticle known as the Magnificat, which is recorded by the inspired writer from verse 46 to 55, declared: “Behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed” (v. 48). Who, I ask, fulfills this prophecy: those who refuse to apply the adjective blessed to the Virgin Mary, or Catholics, who love to call Mary the Blessed Virgin?

Invocation of Mary
Not only do we honor Mary; we also invoke her or ask her intercession. Some objectors say that we should pray to God alone. Well, Catholics certainly pray directly to God, for they regard the Our Father as the best and most beautiful of all prayers and frequently recite it. But they pray also to Mary, asking her to intercede for them with her divine Son.

Our non-Catholic friends ask one another’s prayers, and in this we praise them. But, if I may say to a sinner on this earth, and he may say to me, another sinner, “Pray for me,” for what reason may we not say to the sinless Mother of God enthroned in heaven, “Pray for us”? If St. Paul asked the Romans to “help him in their prayers for him to God” (Rom. 15:16); if he wrote to the Thessalonians, “Pray for us,” why may we not ask Mary, who is far holier and nearer to God than the Roman and Thessalonian converts, to “pray for us”? In fact, we read in the Old Testament that God positively commanded Eliphaz and his two friends to go to the holy man Job and seek his intercession: “My servant Job shall pray for you; his face I will accept, that folly be not imputed to you” (Job 42:8).

Therefore Catholics act aright when they say: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.”

Statues and Pictures of Mary
But why, someone may ask, do Catholics have statues or pictures of Mary in their churches and homes? Is it not against the first (or second) commandment to make graven images? No, it is against God’s laws to adore images, not to make them; otherwise we should have to abolish all such things as dolls, for are they not “graven images”? And does anyone imagine that it is against the first commandment to make dolls or to give them to children? God even commanded the making of certain images in the Old Law, as we read in various parts of the Old Testament. For instance, he ordered Moses to make two cherubim (angels) of beaten gold (Ex. 25:18).

If non-Catholics approve of the making and erecting of statues of Queen Victoria or King Edward or General MacArthur or Charles Dickens or Roosevelt (and in this we agree with them), how can they possibly see anything objectionable in making a statue of the Blessed Virgin, Mother of the King of kings, and putting it in a prominent place? We ask our friends outside the Church to be fair and not to attempt playing “Heads I win, and tails you lose.”

As to the custom of lighting candles and placing vases of flowers before the statue or picture of the Blessed Virgin, no person can reasonably object to this practice who would approve of a college boarder plucking flowers, arranging them nicely in vases, and putting them in front of her mother’s photo, which she had placed on the mantelpiece in her room. If the latter is a praiseworthy practice—as every person endowed with reason and affection admits—surely the former custom is equally laudable. Likewise, if a child may laudably kiss the photo of her absent mother, in order to show her love for her (though the child well knows that the photo itself is an inanimate, unresponsive object), so Catholics are worthy of praise when they kiss a picture or statue of Mary in order to express the love they have for the living Queen of Heaven, whom the image represents. . .

Protestant Poets and Devotion to Mary
Devotion to Mary is so beautiful a practice and fits in so harmoniously in the plan of the Christian religion that the Christian soul, untrammelled or untainted by prejudice, instinctively recognizes its truth. I have not infrequently been struck by the fact that Protestant children, who have as yet been given no bias against this devotion, quickly perceive its loveliness and are strongly attracted by it when once they are given even an elementary idea of it. And even more mature non-Catholic children are sometimes at a loss to know why they have been turned against such a sweet, appealing devotion. I once heard a Presbyterian girl of twelve, who had seen a picture of Our Lady of Good Counsel, ask her mother: “Why don’t Protestants honor the Mother of Jesus?”

Poetry helps men to shed prejudice, and so we find certain Protestant poets, in their moments of poetic rapture, writing exquisite things about the Blessed Virgin. The following beautiful lines come from the pen of Wordsworth:

Mother whose virgin bosom was uncrossed
With the least shade of thought to sin allied.
Woman! above all women glorified,
Our tainted nature’s solitary boast;
Purer than foam on central ocean tossed;
Brighter than eastern skies at daybreak strewn
With fancied roses; than unblemished moon
Before her wane begins on heaven’s blue coast.

Longfellow, another non-Catholic poet, has given us a lovely poem:

This is indeed the Blessed Mary’s land!
Virgin and Mother of our dear Redeemer;
All hearts are touched and softened at her name;
Alike the bandit, with the bloody hand,
The priest, the prince, the scholar, and the peasant,
The man of deeds, the visionary dreamer,
Pay homage to her as one ever present!
And even as children who have much offended
A too-indulgent father, in great shame,
Penitent, and yet not daring unattended
To go into his presence, at the gate
Speak with their sister, and confiding wait
Till she goes in before and intercedes;
So men, repenting of their evil deeds,
And yet, not venturing rashly to draw near
With their requests an angry father’s ear,
Offer to her their prayers and their confession,
And she for them in heaven makes intercession.
And if our faith had given us nothing more
Than this example of all womanhood,
So mild, so merciful, so strong, so good,
So patient, peaceful, loyal, loving, pure,
This were enough to prove it higher and truer
Than all the creeds the world had known before.

Devotion to the Blessed Virgin
I read the whole thing, thank you for posting.

In general, the idea of praying to saints sleeping in the dust, doesn't make sense. This would be a difference in Ancient and Modern theology. Praying to saints to pray for you, might be a consequence of administrating a church as a government over all people and creating a system for all people to participate.

I am not against the honoring of Mary's Mother, but when praise creates a mythology about Mary, then I must object.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I really don’t see why so many people object to “Mother of God.” Jesus is God. Mary is Jesus’s mother. Thus Mary is the mother of God. “Just stating the facts,” no?

Practically nobody in the 2000 year history of Christendom has ever interpreted that phrase to mean that Mary created God, or that God did not preexist Mary. So what’s the issue?
Mary was the mother of Jesus's humanity, and in the end of it was a born again believer like the rest of us. When a person is born again, they are a new creation, the old is gone and the new has come.

We are made like God because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, Mary was not made like God by giving birth to Jesus, she also had to receive the Holy Spirit.
 
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Michie

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I read the whole thing, thank you for posting.

In general, the idea of praying to saints sleeping in the dust, doesn't make sense. This would be a difference in Ancient and Modern theology. Praying to saints to pray for you, might be a consequence of administrating a church as a government over all people and creating a system for all people to participate.

I am not against the honoring of Mary's Mother, but when praise creates a mythology about Mary, then I must object.
Well you should take your questions to the Church and how she views it. We do not worship Mary.
 
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Michie

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Well you should take your questions to the Church and how she views it. We do not worship Mary.
What’s so funny @Cockalorum? There was nothing funny about what I said and that rating could be considered goading in this instance. I’m being respectful. You should try to do the same.
 
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Cockcrow

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Adoration, making Altars, Bowing down to, devotion to, entrusting, feasts, glory due to, locations, look to, pray to.

but yeah, totally not "worshipping" Mary

just because they say and tell people "we don't worship Mary" doesn't make it so, Isaiah 29:13
 
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Michie

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providing Adoration, making Altars, Bowing down to, devotion to, entrusting, feasts, glory due to, locations, look to, pray to.

but yeah, totally not "worshipping" Mary
Believe what you want. No skin off my nose.
 
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Swag365

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Mary was the mother of Jesus's humanity, and in the end of it was a born again believer like the rest of us. When a person is born again, they are a new creation, the old is gone and the new has come.

We are made like God because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, Mary was not made like God by giving birth to Jesus, she also had to receive the Holy Spirit.
That's nice. But again, practically nobody in the 2000 year history of Christendom has interpreted that phrase to mean that "Mary was made like God by giving birth to Jesus".

As for "Mary was the mother of Jesus's humanity" if you want to adopt a Nestorian Christology that's up to you, I suppose. I thought that most Protestants accepted the Hypostatic union, but perhaps you aren't one of them. Good luck with that.
 
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lismore

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Are all rewards in Heaven equal?

Hello Swag! Thanks for the interesting though slightly cryptic question. My thought would be Matthew chapter 20, the parable of workers in the vineyard. The workers who were hired at nine, at noon and at five all received a denarius. God Bless You :)
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I thought that most Protestants accepted the Hypostatic union, but perhaps you aren't one of them. Good luck with that.
I recall posting something in agreement to the hypostatic agreement earlier, perhaps you are getting tired of the discussion. We can agree to disagree, or agree that we disagree. Whatever works.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Well you should take your questions to the Church and how she views it. We do not worship Mary.
According to Holy Scripture, you do not praise yourself, true praise is generated from others. (Proverbs 27:2)
 
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