a great and balanced view of the Old vs New Calendar

[ArmyMatt]

The Calendar - The Morning Offering - Ancient Faith Radio

 

[MKJ]

I thought the bit where he said that schism was a greater sin than heresy was ind of interesting. It seems to imply that even if you new heresy was being taught, it would be wrong to separate yourself. I cant say I have gotten the impression most Orthodox would take that approach.

 

[tapi]

I thought the bit where he said that schism was a greater sin than heresy was ind of interesting. It seems to imply that even if you new heresy was being taught, it would be wrong to separate yourself. I cant say I have gotten the impression most Orthodox would take that approach.

Abbot Tryphon seems to be following Elder Paisios' teaching on this matter. Note that he's referring to the Old Calendarists here, the people who have separated themselves from the Church due to them seeing those who follow the New Calendar as being in heresy.

We too of course follow the old (calendar) on Athos. But this is a different situation. We are united with the Church, with all the Patriarchates, both of those that follow the New and of the Old calendar. We recognize their mysteries as valid and they recognize ours. Their priests make service with our priests. Whereas these poor folk (the OCs) were cut off. Most of them have piety, accuracy (in following the canons) and a fighting spirit and true zeal of God. But it only happens inexplicably and not because they have knowledge of what they do. Others due to simplicity, others due to lack of knowledge, and others due to selfishness though, went astray. They considered the 13 days as a dogmatic issue and all of us deceived, and thus left the Church. They do not have communion with the Patriarchates and the Churches that follow both either the new or the old calendar because the later ones supposedly became contaminated through their communion with the new calendarists. And this is not the only thing. Even those few that have remained (as OCs in Greece), have become … even I don’t know how many pieces! And they keep being cut off into smaller pieces all the time and they keep anathematising each other, excommunicating each other and defrocking each other. You do not know how much I have grieved and been saddened by this situation. I have prayed a lot. It is important that we show love towards them and feel for them and not to condemn them; and more importantly, for us to pray for them so that God illumines them, and, if once in a while one of them asks help from us in a good-natured manner, we could say a word or two, the Elder concluded.

 

[MKJ]

Abbot Tryphon seems to be following Elder Paisios' teaching on this matter. Note that he's referring to the Old Calendarists here, the people who have separated themselves from the Church due to them seeing those who follow the New Calendar as being in heresy.

But in that case, presumably those who did not schism do not think heresy is being taught - so that would mean if they schismed over it, they would be doing so over something that is not heresy. I think everyone, including the Old Calenderists, would think that was bad.

I took him to mean that to schism even when you think there is heresy must be wrong, or it would not make sense to say the Old Calenderists are wrong for that reason. Unless I am misunderstanding and they do not claim it is a heresy.

 

[buzuxi02]

Well, the old calendarists believe the new calendarists schismed from them. Truth is the old calendarists of Greece are similar to the situation of old believers of Russia. In that parishes were forbidden to retain the old calendar, with civil authorities enforcing the ban.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don't care about religious calendars, old or new. What I AM interested in is creating a work calendar where I only go to work ten days per month. That is what I'm hoping for....

 

[MariaRegina]

Re: the New Calendar.

Why did Freemason Patriarch Meletios impose this calendar in the first place?

IS OUTRAGE!

Was there any real reason to do so except to please the Vatican and Protestant ministers and thus to celebrate Christ Mass with them?

IS OUTRAGE!

Never mind that Pascha is not celebrated on Western Easter except once every five years or so. My mom is convinced that our Pascha is always celebrated five weeks later than Western Easter. It has her so confused, but in spite of this confusion, should the Orthodox CHANGE the date of Pascha? Heavens no.

IS OUTRAGE to think that New Calendar is New Orthodox Practice.

Eccleasiastical Calendar is what was celebrated in Holy Russia in the 18th Century.

What is this change?

IS OUTRAGE!

New Calendar is not Ancient Orthodox Faith.

The so-called "Old Calendar" is really the Ancient Orthodox Ecclesiastical Calendar that has been followed for centuries. And yes, Orthodox Councils have been held that declared any aberration from the Orthodox Ecclesiastical Calendar as a heresy.

We members of the Ancient Orthodox Church do NOT change our Holy Tradition.
The Ancient Ecclesiastical Calendar is part of the Faith of our Holy Fathers and our Holy Tradition.
Any change in our Holy Traditions is anathema.

The NEW CALENDAR brings an ANATHEMA on those who use it! The New Calendarists have started a nasty schism.

 

[MKJ]

Well, the old calendarists believe the new calendarists schismed from them. Truth is the old calendarists of Greece are similar to the situation of old believers of Russia. In that parishes were forbidden to retain the old calendar, with civil authorities enforcing the ban.

I guess that is pretty much true in every schism - people always believe it was the other guys who broke off.

Bad implementation of changes always seems to cause trouble.

I'm curious though - I know the state and the Church are fairly closely connected in Greece. Is that why they were involved in enforcing the change?

 

[MariaRegina]

guess that is pretty much true in every schism - people always believe it was the other guys who broke off.

Bad implementation of changes always seems to cause trouble.

Change? Ancient Orthodox Christians do not know CHANGE.

What is this thing you call change?

IS OUTRAGE!

I'm curious though - I know the state and the Church are fairly closely connected in Greece. Is that why they were involved in enforcing the change?

Change started, not by Orthodox Christians, but by Freemason Patriarch Meletios. He is OUTRAGE! He is the heretic.

 

[tapi]

Maria, in all humility, you posts seem to contain exactly the attitude that Elder Paisios was warning us against.

 

[MariaRegina]

I am sorry, but I cannot accept the teachings of Father Paisios.
His writings greatly disturb me.

We are to hold to the Ancient Faith and our Holy Tradition.
The New Calendar brought onto us by Freemasons is not of God.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Oh boy....I sense "Calendar Wars Reloaded" coming any minute now....

 

[-Kyriaki-]

...Elder Paisios being disturbing? That's a new one. I've honestly never known anyone to dislike him and I've been reading him myself for a very long time and have never been anything but edified.

And yes, you are being over the top, Maria. Calm down. Accusing Patriarchs of being heretics is a bit much.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Kyriaki, 24 years old and the moderator with ancient Solomon-like wisdom...

 

[RobNJ]

...Elder Paisios being disturbing? That's a new one. I've honestly never known anyone to dislike him and I've been reading him myself for a very long time and have never been anything but edified.

And yes, you are being over the top, Maria. Calm down. Accusing Patriarchs of being heretics is a bit much.

AMEN!

 

[SeraphimSarov]

The NEW CALENDAR brings an ANATHEMA on those who use it!

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, man am I glad that I started this thread, especially since I am one of those crazy new Calendar heretics (even though technically, nothing on the new actually fits the definition of heresy), even though I personally prefer the Old. so despite the fact that I can commune on Mt Athos, Valaam, and the Holy Land, and the Old Calendarists can't, guys like myself are somehow outside of the Church.....

seriously Maria, God forgive me, but do you read the inflammitory craziness that you write?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You're one of the nicest heretics I know, Matt. I wish we were on the Gregorian calendar in our Serbian diocese. I hate the Julian...but I have no pull, so what the heck...LOL

I just want a work calendar with a ten-hour workweek and full benefits....

well, man am I glad that I started this thread, especially since I am one of those crazy new Calendar heretics (even though technically, nothing on the new actually fits the definition of heresy), even though I personally prefer the Old. so despite the fact that I can commune on Mt Athos, Valaam, and the Holy Land, and the Old Calendarists can't, guys like myself are somehow outside of the Church.....

seriously Maria, God forgive me, but do you read the inflammitory craziness that you write?

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[88Devin07]

Calendar doesn't matter to me anymore, I attend a church which is really two parishes in one (temporarily but for the foreseeable future) and one half is old calendar and the other is new calendar.

I've said it many times before elsewhere, nothing ever justifies schism from the Church, and those who leave the Church because of a calendar change are far worse than those they accuse of heresy. No one, not even our holy Saints left the Church because their leaders taught heresy. They cut themselves off from those leaders but not from the rest of the Church. This is what the schismatics have done in Greece, they have put their pharisaism above the rest of the Church and tried to justify a split apart from the rest of the Church, and have taken upon themselves the exalted authority of anathematizing Christ's Church simply because they idolize the ritual and small traditions over the real faith.

There isn't anything at all that is more holy about the "Old Calendar" than the New Calendar. The Old Calendar as they call it, comes from Julius Caesar, and even the name of the months in Greece come from Julius Caesar's time. The New Calendar at least, comes from Christian origins, even if its from the Roman Catholic Church.

The change of a calendar is not and never has been heresy. The only issue here, is that such a change should have been done at a council, and that is why the Great & Holy Council that is upcoming will be a good thing, because this will be addressed. Anyone who splits off because of the calendar issue has become no better than the supposed heretics that they accuse, or the heterodox that they despise any contact with.