A good place to start?

[mmarco]

Hello Matt,

I would like to point out an important aspect about the Bible. When we try to explain something too complex to a child, we need to simply the concept and often we have to use an approximate language they can understand. In the same way, God revealed Himself to humanity gradually, step by step; somehow, biblical peoples represent the infancy of the religious conscience of humanity. We cannot understand nor conceive who is God in His essence, but in Christ God made Himself knowable; in Christ we can know the fullness of God's perfection, His infinite love and goodness. I find that the christian concept of God and of divine love is the highest possible concept. I find that the idea itself that God loves us so much that He chose to assume the human nature and accepted to suffer crucifission in order to save us, expresses such a high concept of God and of divine love that it can comes only from God and it is certainly a truth. This concept is fully convincing for me, it proves itself by itself and makes superfluous any other arguments . I believe that Chirst suffered His Passion to help us to have faith in Him and trust Him, to make us understand that God loves us infinitely, that God is good and mercifull and that God is near to us so that we may totally trust Him and open our heart to Him, be in communion with Him and be saved. There are other religions teaching that God is love, but the problem is to define what the word “love” means, because by itself it could be only a vague and generic concept.
The christian faith is unique because it gives a very concrete and unique meaning to the concept of divine love: in fact God’s love actualizes in the acceptance of a terrible physical suffering; the God of the christian faith loves us so much that He is willing to suffer a painful death in order to save us. In the christian faith, love is not only a theoretical and vague concept; Christ’s Passion is a clear and concrete realization of the concept of divine love which teaches us what is the true meaning of love.


For the reasons explained above, I think we must then interpret the Old Testament in the Light of the more mature revelation contained in the New Testament; for this reason I strongly recommend to read and understand the New Testament before reading the Old Testament.
As every ancient book, the correct interpretations requires deep knowledges about the culture of the authors and of the people to whom the messages were adressed. Therefore, I strongly recommend to read always also some different commentaries of every biblical paragraphs you choose to read. You can find many on line.

 

[hedrick]

What kind of Christianity are you attracted to? If it’s conservative Christianity, i.e. if you are thinking that the Bible is historically accurate in all details, then I can’t help you with Genesis. If it’s Christianity as in the mainline denominations (in the UK, that would be Anglican, Methodist, and even Catholic), I recommend Peter Enns, “The Bible Tells Me So,” for a general orientation to how the Bible works. As to reading it, Christian belief and practice depend most heavily on the New Testament. After John, I’d read one of the other Gospels, probably Luke, Acts, and maybe 1 Corinthians from Paul. Romans is actually the most important theologically, but you need a bit of background to understand both the debate it is part of, and the Old Testament background.

In the Old Testament, Genesis, with all its problems, is key, followed by Exodus. Then I’d suggest one of the prophets, maybe Isaiah, though some historical background is useful for all of this. Just for fun, Jonah. It is a satire, which makes fun of the narrow, xenophobic view that many of the other OT books show. To get the full effect of Jonah, you need to read it in a good modern translation.

Be aware that CF is a rather conservative site. Key elements of the kind of theology that you'd find taught in mainline seminaries (graduate schools for pastors and scholars) or major universities, particularly in the UK, are effectively banned here.

 

[hedrick]

As to Genesis. I think it’s clear that Israel started out with God as a tribal war God. You should look not at those ideas but at how the prophets and others changed them. By Jesus time, many (though not all) Jews accepted that there were righteous non Jews, and that God cared about them all.

Some of the specifics depend upon your theory of the Bible. If you consider it as a record of human encounters with God, written by humans, there should no surprise to find some people who didn’t get the whole messsge. You also won’t be surprised that they didn’t understand modern science.

if you think it’s Gods words, perfect, you’ll spend your whole Christian life making excuses for the many places it falls short of that. Both approaches can support faithful Christians, although typically lead to some differences in our vision of what that means.

 

[Andrewn]

Actually a good Bible was another question that cropped up. Online there's the choice of lots of different versions. I tend to go for the KJV but I don't know if there's any one that's considered better than another?

You've already received good ideas. I'm glad you started your study with the Gospel of John. I definitely recommend that you read the NT first: from Matthew to the epistles of John.

IMHO, the best translation at this time is the Christian Standard Bible (CSB). It's a new translation published in 2017, so you will not find too many people who are familiar with it or who recommend it. But it is trustworthy and exactly hits the right balance between Formal and Dynamic translations.

 

[RBPerry]

Thank you, this was really helpful.

I've been doing a lot of reading, watching some online videos etc and it gets overwhelming, particularly when it gets to working out answers to questions which still divide people after many hundreds of years.

Even the idea of a spiritual perspective is one that until recently I didn't really understand, so although I'm well into my forties I've really gone back to basics in some ways.

Anyway, I found your post very helpful, both in your own story and your advice.

Thanks!

Both Lukaris & Sketcher have also given you some very good advice. I'm 72 years old and still a student as we all are when it comes to understanding our heavenly father. Know this, God loves you as he does all people. I totally agree to find a bible translation that you are comfortable with, I personally love the NIV but there are others, King James is difficult for many people. May I suggest praying prior to reading and ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into what he wants you to learn. The other thing is get into fellowship with a church, here again ask for guidance as to where you should fellowship.
Here is my take on churches, make sure it is a bible teaching church, stay away from church politics, there are many denominations, don't worry about denomination, seek where God wants you.
God Bless You

 

[hedrick]

I don't recommend the KJV. First, a lot of new manuscripts have been found since, some of what are thought to be closer to the originals. Second, English has changed a lot. You really need a dictionary of Elizabethan English to get the meaning from some passages.

Pretty much any major translation is OK. They vary in how literal they are. For an initial reading you may not want a really literal translation. NIV (as long as it's the current edition), NRSV, CSB, will all be fine. Some conservatives like the ESV, but I think it's a bit too literal for an initial reading. I like the Good News translation, but it's a lot freer than the others.

 

[Matt_from_England]

So there's a lot here for me to take in. I can already see some ideas which will be of great use. I'll be going through your posts in detail and responding as time allows but in the meantime, sincere thanks to each of you that have responded. Your kind words and advice are much appreciated.

 

[Lukaris]

Just one more add on here, I think the account of St. Stephen in the book of Acts is something to study. St. Paul, when he was still Saul, actually supported the execution of St. Stephen. The main point though is St. Stephen’s preaching in Acts 7 which gives much explanation of God’s purpose in the Old Testament.


See CF links Acts of the Apostles 6:8-15, Acts of the Apostles 7.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello, I have a lot of questions but wanted to give some background.

I'm someone who until very recently would describe themselves as an atheist, albeit an agnostic one. I couldn't prove there wasn't a God, but felt it unlikely, certainly as major religions described one. I didn't stop discussing or asking questions, but that was my position.

Anyway, recently that's begun to change. I'm not sure what I am. I put 'skeptic' down on the list when I joined, because that always seemed a rational place to start. I've probably lost the membership badge by now. I'm now looking at the world and seeing things happening which make more sense to me at least with the christian worldview from my childhood than the empiricist lens I've been looking through for many years.

I've discussed with a Christian friend and he suggested I read John, which I did and found it beautiful and uplifting. I then went to Genesis and found this much harder going.

I have prayed for the first time in many years. I found it difficult. I prayed for guidance and for my heart to be opened. I've not had any kind of answer other than the compulsion to keep looking and asking questions. Which brings me here. I'm wondering what the best way of going forward is?

Is there a 'good' route to navigate the Bible? In the past I've found passages from Leviticus or Exodus very difficult to reconcile with the loving God that I can see in John. However I don't want to get into those now.

I do have other questions, around aspects of theology and things I've read in different excerpts online etc. but I think I'd be getting ahead of myself trying to tackle those at the moment.

Thank you for reading and for any advice you care to offer.

Matt

Your friend suggesting you begin with the Gospel of John is pretty common, though it's not a recommendation I would agree with. It is beautiful, but it's also the most theologically dense of the four Gospels.

Whenever I am asked how to approach the Bible for the first time, here is what I usually recommend:

Start with either the Gospels of Mark or Luke. I would argue for Luke more strongly, but that should be obvious in a moment. Why Mark or Luke? They are two of the three Gospels known as the Synoptic Gospels (meaning they are more like each other than any of them are to John). Matthew is really good, but it tends to assume its readers are already familiar with the Old Testament. Mark is the shortest, and is good because it is very quick and punchy, it's the Jesus Story in a quick, "just the facts" kind of way. Luke was written as part of a two-part work often called Luke-Acts, with the Acts of the Apostles being the part two, or "sequel" if you will. That's why I recommend Luke over Mark here.

Because after reading Luke you can transition pretty seamlessly into the Acts of the Apostles, where Luke leaves off the Acts picks up, telling the story of, well, the acts--the works, the deeds--of Christ's Apostles. What the Acts of the Apostles also does is introduce us to the figure of Paul of Tarsus, the anti-Christian zealot turned Christian apostle who would go on to write most of the books which make up the New Testament.

Now having been introduced to Paul, and the early years of Christianity, you can then go on to read some of the rest of the New Testament. Probably the most obvious book to read here is Paul's Epistle to the Romans. It is the letter he wrote to the Christian Church in Rome, and it is arguably the most important book in the New Testament outside of the Gospels themselves. It simply can't be understated just how important Romans, it is a master class in distilling some of the most important elements of the Christian religion to something that is actually rather accessible.

What do do after reading Romans? World's your oyster. If you want to dip your toes in the Old Testament, it can really depend on what you're looking for. The Psalms are probably the most obvious place to start. The Psalms can be seen as kind of like the ancient hymn book of Israel, a collection of hymns, poetry, and prose that would have had musical accompaniment in ancient times.

I wouldn't particularly recommend reading, say, Leviticus or Numbers unless you want to fall asleep. Not that there's nothing of value there, it's just not exactly stimulating reading. I would especially avoid reading the Revelation of St. John for now, I mean feel free to if you want, but expect it to not necessarily make a lick of sense (it's the most hotly debated book in the entire Bible).

I'd say, if you really wanted to keep reading more of the Bible, it would probably begin to make sense to do that within a setting where you have lots of really well-informed people to kind of help, this is where things like actually participating in a Christian church becomes more helpful, where there are regular Scripture readings, sermons expositing on those readings along with encouragement and edification, with things like dedicated Bible studies, catechism classes, etc. Because fundamentally the Bible isn't a book that is meant to be read by oneself, but rather is a collection of Scripture that historically has been read out loud, and heard, and then lived out in the larger context of Christian worship and life. For most of history this is really the only way the Bible existed, the idea of just being able to sit down and read your own copy of the Bible is something that would never have been possible prior to the invention of the printing press in the 15th century. The Bible evolved as the collection of books which were read in Christian worship, as Scripture to encourage and strengthen our faith and point us to Christ and His word--the Gospel.

To what degree you feel like doing any of that is of course entirely up to you and what you want to do.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[RBPerry]

My favorite book is Romans, but I do agree with ViaCrucis recommendations, bible intro 101.

 

[Andrewn]

Probably the most obvious book to read here is Paul's Epistle to the Romans. It is the letter he wrote to the Christian Church in Rome, and it is arguably the most important book in the New Testament outside of the Gospels themselves. It simply can't be understated just how important Romans, it is a master class in distilling some of the most important elements of the Christian religion to something that is actually rather accessible.

I agree with you but I suggest that Romans cannot be properly understood, and should not be read, before reading Galatians.

 

[RBPerry]

I agree with you but I suggest that Romans cannot be properly understood, and should not be read, before reading Galatians.

The beauty of the bible is how it speaks to us based on our maturity and knowledge, and what inspires one person may effect another differently. I truly believe the Holy Spirit will lead a person in their studies of the bible, I'm not saying they shouldn't seek advice of seasoned Christians, but as they draw closer to the Holy Spirit and sense His leadership, then He must be the ultimate authority in our growth process.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I agree with you but I suggest that Romans cannot be properly understood, and should not be read, before reading Galatians.

I am curious why you think this is so. I'm not disagreeing with you, only curious.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Andrewn]

I am curious why you think this is so. I'm not disagreeing with you, only curious.

Romans is the masterpiece. Galatians sets the stage, it is the prequel. Kind of like "Lord of the Ring" and "The Hobbit."

I say this bec in Galatian St Paul makes very important definitions like "1) Who is a son of Isaac?" and "2) What is role of Torah-keeping for Christians:"

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, Everyone who does not do everything written in the book of the law is cursed.[a] 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith. 12 But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them.[c] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.[d]

The whole point is that we are not justified by what we do, lest we should glory in ourselves, but by what Christ did, so that He receives all the glory.

3) The all important concept of justification that Paul spends so many words talking about in Romans, is summarized in Galatians 5:2-4: “2 Take note! I, Paul, am telling you that if you get yourselves circumcised, Christ will not benefit you at all. 3 Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to do the entire law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.”

It is clearly taught in both Romans and Galatians that we are justified by faith apart from any work or ritual (for if one work is required, all work is required). Faith is not a work, nor is it like work, because faith is a rest (non-work), a resting, or trusting, in the work of another: Jesus Christ.

4) While the Torah has no role in justification, works of love and sanctification are expected:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[e] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy,[f] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This summary of Galatians works well for Romans, which expands on the same ideas. But, in Romans, Paul makes statement that can be confusing if we did not understand the foundation of his soteriology in Galatians.

 

[RBPerry]

In a theology class many years ago our professor had us read through the bible, we were given two weeks to just read it. After two weeks he had each of us write down what was the most significant book, and what passage in that book made the greatest impression on us. We all submitted our responses, as he read them aloud one of our classmates wrote the responses on the blackboard. When finished, he smiled and said, "You see, the bible ministers to each of us differently, based on what God is wanting to teach you." I'll never forget that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Romans is the masterpiece. Galatians sets the stage, it is the prequel. Kind of like "Lord of the Ring" and "The Hobbit."

I say this bec in Galatian St Paul makes very important definitions like "1) Who is a son of Isaac?" and "2) What is role of Torah-keeping for Christians:"

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, Everyone who does not do everything written in the book of the law is cursed.[a] 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith. 12 But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them.[c] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.[d]

The whole point is that we are not justified by what we do, lest we should glory in ourselves, but by what Christ did, so that He receives all the glory.

3) The all important concept of justification that Paul spends so many words talking about in Romans, is summarized in Galatians 5:2-4: “2 Take note! I, Paul, am telling you that if you get yourselves circumcised, Christ will not benefit you at all. 3 Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to do the entire law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.”

It is clearly taught in both Romans and Galatians that we are justified by faith apart from any work or ritual (for if one work is required, all work is required). Faith is not a work, nor is it like work, because faith is a rest (non-work), a resting, or trusting, in the work of another: Jesus Christ.

4) While the Torah has no role in justification, works of love and sanctification are expected:

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious:[e] sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy,[f] drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

This summary of Galatians works well for Romans, which expands on the same ideas. But, in Romans, Paul makes statement that can be confusing if we did not understand the foundation of his soteriology in Galatians.

Interesting, I would have thought that Romans would be better in terms of understanding Galatians rather than the other way around, but I can see your point.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Matt_from_England]

I'm mindful that many of you kindly offered some detailed advice. I want you to know I'm looking at this thread and that I remain deeply appreciative of the friendly response I've received here.

I have found reading Ecclesiastes helpful & then reading the New Testament. Ecclesiastes concludes with fear God & keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). Perhaps then backtrack to Deuteronomy 5, Deuteronomy 6, Psalms 15, Ezekiel 18:4-9, then all Ezekiel 18, Ezekiel 33, Isaiah 58, Ezekiel 34. I think from these we find that while we must follow the commandments & do good works, we still need grace ( then check Ephesians 2:8-10). I think Ezekiel 34 prepares us in that while we need priests or pastors ( depending on your church), we have to realize that they are just human & some are virtuous & others not. This is where the Lord as the good shepherd comes in ( John 10).

I also think the moral code of the OT is consistent with the Gospel. The thing is that forgiveness replaces cruel punishments for sinning in our earthly society. For ex. Leviticus 18, Leviticus 19, Leviticus 20 etc. are consistent with what St. Paul preaches in Romans 1 but St. Paul is preaching in conformity to the Lord’s Sermon on the Mount ( Matthew 5, Matthew 6, Matthew 7 ). Then we meditate on the Lord’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40, Luke 19:25-37, Romans 13:8-10 etc.)

Of course, there is much more to know but I have found these to be of help.

I have to confess to not being much of a 'joiner'. There is a church nearby which a family member attends, or did do, not so much since lockdown, so maybe when the restrictions are relaxed. I just walked past it and it was open for private prayer today but only for an hour which has passed.

There's no single, best order in which to read the books. I will tell you to keep in mind:

• The Bible is about God, and man's relationship to God. This includes God's will for us, and what he has done for his people, and why. This will also include its teaching about man's nature.
• Context is very important. Consider the culture of the people that the book of the Bible you are reading was first written to. The inductive study method emphasizes this.
• Everything about a certain subject is rarely all found within one passage of Scripture. The thematic study method can be a good way to get a balanced view of what Scripture teaches on a general topic (i.e. prayer, salvation, etc) if you are unfamiliar.
• God is the biggest being out there. This means that one book of the Bible won't reveal all of who he is. A common and major mistake people make is thinking he changed from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Since Psalm 103 is in the Old Testament, and Acts 5:1-11 is in the New Testament, no one should believe that he changed. God has always loved his people very much, yet he still judges. Both manifestations of action come from the same heart. Because he is righteous, he judges. Because he is righteous, he gives mercy. Because of his supremacy, he is in a position where he has the ability to do either.

There's a lot to understand, and over a lifetime's worth of growth in understanding and in application for every Christian. Therefore, be patient with it, and if you hit a snag, know that there is probably more to it than what you're struggling over. Many deceptions about God and Christianity contain a kernel of truth, but not the whole truth.

I generally recommend 1) Finding a healthy church that emphasizes following the Bible as its chief authority for doctrine and practice, and 2) using the translation that they use, since it's easier to follow along that way. If you like the KJV, that's fine, I use it too sometimes, it's not the only one I use. Read another translation alongside it. My church uses the ESV, so I can recommend that. NASB and NKJV are also good. If you can get your hands on a 1984 NIV rather than a 2011 NIV, that's another good one.

Very helpful, thanks.

At the moment I'm mostly reading online and have an electronic copy but really need a paper copy so I don't get distracted which happens when I'm reading via the web.