A global flood is simply untenable

[Bobber]

The flood did happen and it was worldwide just like it says. The Lord means what He says and He says what He means. Almost all cultures have an historical account of a great flood. Are they all lying?

I agree. It doesn't make no sense that God would give the actual dimensions of the Ark and it was built huge....not a little small image like one sees in a kids book. Around 150 yards long....about 28 yards wide....plus three floors about 50 feet high! And if one is going to say was merely regional why wouldn't God just tell Noah to move there. Surely God could have inspired the animals to migrate there too.

 

[Derf]

Because God already give women all the eggs she will need her whole life from birth. God wouldn't take something from her He already given the woman.

Dirt is basically discarded waste, the uterus is discarded waste

So God couldn't use one of her already available eggs? Why not?

 

[BeyondET]

So God couldn't use one of her already available eggs? Why not?

I edited my op, but like I mentioned would you gift someone something then take it back years later.

I don't believe God would take something like an egg. The uterus lining was created to be discarded. I would assume a bit more technical creating from waste, like dirt same as the first Adam was and so the second Adam

 

[BeyondET]

I agree. It doesn't make no sense that God would give the actual dimensions of the Ark and it was built huge....not a little small image like one sees in a kids book. Around 150 yards long....about 28 yards wide....plus three floors about 50 feet high! And if one is going to say was merely regional why wouldn't God just tell Noah to move there. Surely God could have inspired the animals to migrate there too.

I think it was continent regional which wouldn't be just merely. You need a ship to get to another continent if such event happened.

 

[Bobber]

I think it was continent regional which wouldn't be just merely. You need a ship to get to another continent if such event happened.

If I understand physics correctly though water levels equalize. For water to go deep enough to cover the hills or mountains of that local region the waters would go out beyond the boundaries of that area. Or water levels would have to go up uniformally in a global sense for water to cover high hill/mountains....If you get my meaning.

 

[BeyondET]

If I understand physics correctly though water levels equalize. For water to go deep enough to cover the hills or mountains of that local region the waters would go out beyond the boundaries of that area. Or water levels would have to go up uniformally in a global sense for water to cover high hill/mountains....If you get my meaning.

Depending on the height of the range might of been alot lower, sunken continent from the deep opening up.

More likely the sea level wasn't nearly as high as it is today. Some of the tallest mountains are in the ocean. And there's quite afew ancient civilization ruins deep under water.

 

[The Barbarian]

Right. "At present". And he suggests we don't go looking for one right now. So it doesn't appear to be a big concern of his.

Pick your battles where you think you can win. Dr. Wise thinks that there someday might be a reasonable explanation for this in terms of creationism. But right now, he admits is very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory.

Dirt is basically discarded waste

Don't tell that to a farmer. Our lives depend on dirt.

 

[Derf]

I edited my op, but like I mentioned would you gift someone something then take it back years later.

I don't believe God would take something like an egg. The uterus lining was created to be discarded. I would assume a bit more technical creating from waste, like dirt same as the first Adam was and so the second Adam

But He wasn't a new kind of creature, made from dust. He was a human, so He could save humanity. That requires, in my mind, the normal process of egg fertilization. And He was made in the image of His Father. That requires something different in the way the egg was fertilzed. The use of the uterus could be true, but it was still something given to Mary, so I don't see why it is any different. It would still have her DNA. Why not use the process He designed in the first place, with the miracle that resulted in fertilization?

 

[Derf]

Pick your battles where you think you can win.

True.

Dr. Wise thinks that there someday might be a reasonable explanation for this in terms of creationism. But right now, he admits is very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory.

It is at least a stronger story for evolution than for creation, since creation doesn't have a story yet. More like a win because the other team hasn't arrived.

Don't tell that to a farmer. Our lives depend on dirt.

Yep. And to dirt we will all return, if the Lord doesn't return first.

 

[BPPLEE]

Too many species, too many mouths to feed. And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with. And frankly we are definitely on their menu. The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages. And what about waste disposal? The stinkiest ark to have ever sailed the global sea. Have you ever driven past a cattle farm but imagine that on a larger scale in an enclosed space? I think Christianity especially the Fundies, may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized by Moses and the ancient scribes. But furthermore, it fits the pattern of Yahweh's judgment of the nations throughout the Old Testament. In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.

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Are Noah’s ark and flood literal scientific facts? « SMR blog

www.sciencemeetsreligion.org

I used to believe the story of the flood was literal but now I’m open to other ideas

1. A large percentage of the world’s fauna, including, for example, dodos, sloths, penguins, kangaroos, koalas and many other species, are not native to the Middle East (assuming that was the location of Noah’s ark). How did they travel there to board the ark?
2. Island species are particularly vulnerable to predators — when predators have been introduced to an island, they often drive indigenous species to extinction (as has happened in Australia, Hawaii, the Galapagos and numerous other islands). Thus such species would not have been able to survive in the Middle East, away from their naturally protected habitats.
3. The total mass of on-board animals would have been some 400,000 kg, if only yearlings were taken, or some 5 million kg, if adults were taken. Either figure is far more than could be accommodated in the ark as described in the Bible and reconstructed in Kentucky.
4. The figures in the previous item do not include food and water for a one-year sojourn, which would multiply the weight by at least 10 times if not more. Further, many animals require special diets — silkworms require mulberry leaves, Pandas require bamboo, and snakes, for example, require fresh food. How could fresh food be provided for a full year?
5. How could large numbers of animals be protected from the many on-board predators, such as lions and tigers?

 

[WilliamLhk]

Simply put: there is no evidence whatsoever for a worldwide flood.

Simply put, if you reject the testimony of Jesus and Peter and the Scriptures about the flood, you reject the faith. You've used your carnal mind to rationalize away, by means of earthly so-called knowledge, the Word.

 

[Diamond72]

Too many species, too many mouths to feed. And if you're YEC you have over 1,000 species of dinosaurs and therapod dinosaurs to contend with. And frankly we are definitely on their menu. The Ark would need warehouse sized food and water storages. And what about waste disposal? The stinkiest ark to have ever sailed the global sea. Have you ever driven past a cattle farm but imagine that on a larger scale in an enclosed space? I think Christianity especially the Fundies, may need to accept that the flood was a massive regional one and likely a passed down oral tradition that may grew alittle larger each time it was taught and that was eventually became canonized by Moses and the ancient scribes. But furthermore, it fits the pattern of Yahweh's judgment of the nations throughout the Old Testament. In fact, both Jesus and Peter drew comparisons between the Flood and the destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70 itself a regional, national judgment.

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There have been six extinctions in the history of this world. The big one took place at Pangea. That is why we find dinosaur remain in flood deposits.

 

[BeyondET]

But He wasn't a new kind of creature, made from dust. He was a human, so He could save humanity. That requires, in my mind, the normal process of egg fertilization. And He was made in the image of His Father. That requires something different in the way the egg was fertilzed. The use of the uterus could be true, but it was still something given to Mary, so I don't see why it is any different. It would still have her DNA. Why not use the process He designed in the first place, with the miracle that resulted in fertilization?

The lining of the uterus was designed to be discarded on a monthly cycle, it is flushed from the body.

 

[brakelite]

Consider the over 250 different flood myths from around the world. They have one thing in common, world wide destruction.
Some research perhaps:

• The Mesopotamian Epic of Gilgamesh, which tells the story of a flood sent by the gods to punish humanity.
• The Hindu Puranas, which contain several stories of floods, including one that destroyed the world and its inhabitants.
• The Chinese classic Shan Hai Jing, which describes a flood that covered the world and left only a few survivors.
• The Aztec Codex Chimalpopoca, which includes a story of a flood that caused the sun to move across the sky and created the different races of mankind.
• The Maya Popol Vuh, which tells the story of a great flood that destroyed the world and forced the gods to recreate humanity.

Blessings

Add to those the legends of the Maori of NZ, and the Aborigines of Australia. If you don't believe the scriptures regarding the flood, what else are you willing to push aside as too fanciful and unbelievable according to your estimation?

 

[The Barbarian]

Simply put, if you reject the testimony of Jesus and Peter and the Scriptures about the flood, you reject the faith.

Simply put, you've assumed that Jesus and Peter share your interpretation of scripture. But you have no reason to believe it, other than you want it to be so.

You've used your carnal mind to rationalize away, by means of your man-made doctrines, the actual message of scripture.

 

[The Barbarian]

Add to those the legends of the Maori of NZ, and the Aborigines of Australia.

So either there was one great worldwide flood, or floods are a common occurrence in human cultures. Since there is no evidence for a global flood, nor does scripture say any such flood was global, and since we know that great floods have been common in many areas settled by humans, the latter explanation is the only reasonable one.

 

[The Barbarian]

Nearly so. Humans can put them in circumstances under which they can interbreed. Otherwise impossible.

Why?

Because even when their ranges occasionally overlap, they never interbreed.

And, one thing that might cause them to mate is if there arent many other choices around. The biblical account of the animals on the ark could be read to say there were actually two couples of each "kind".

If you have to make some changes to scripture to get your interpretation to work, that's a tip-off, isn't it? Some creationists have tried to solve this (and the Ark problem) but supposing a limited, but amazingly rapid amount of evolution before modern times, when God somehow pulled the switch and went back to "no evolution."

No, that was the point of my previous post. It still happens, but requires some isolation and ecological forcing, perhaps, that isn't normal today. Though I wouldn't call it evolution, since it was likely designed into the creatures from the beginning.

If you must add stuff for which there is no evidence to make your case, again that's a pretty good sign that there's something wrong.

 

[Derf]

The lining of the uterus was designed to be discarded on a monthly cycle, it is flushed from the body.

Which doesn't address my question. Would you like to try again?
Why create a new creature-type from dust when you're trying to save humankind? And you've already promised to use the seed (not dust) of the woman?

 

[WilliamLhk]

Simply put, you've assumed that Jesus and Peter share your interpretation of scripture.

No, I've accepted that Jesus, the Living Word, inspired the written Word, and both He and Peter accepted the truthfulness of it. As do all who believe in Him.

 

[The Barbarian]

No, I've accepted that Jesus, the Living Word, inspired the written Word, and both He and Peter accepted the truthfulness of it. As do all who believe in Him.

They accepted the truthfulness of it. What they didn't say was that they accepted your particular interpretation of if. You've confused your opinion with God's word.