A funny thing happened on the way to work

[Danfrey]

I got so annoyed at the radio today that I had to turn it off. I was listening to the only Christian station in the area and a political commercial came on. It was a local woman running as a write in candidate for the senate. The funny part was her going on about Christian values. Maybe this sounds chovanistic, but it seems pretty hipocrytical for a woman to be trying to gain a position of leadership and claiming Biblical principles.

 

[MrJim]

I got so annoyed at the radio today that I had to turn it off. I was listening to the only Christian station in the area and a political commercial came on. It was a local woman running as a write in candidate for the senate. The funny part was her going on about Christian values. Maybe this sounds chovanistic, but it seems pretty hipocrytical for a woman to be trying to gain a position of leadership and claiming Biblical principles.

You bring up an interesting point. I'm not sure I see a problem with women (in general) in leadership outside of the church. Is there anything scriptural that would prohibit women from leadership in areas outside of the church? Guess I'm thinking about things other than political office for christian women, but if a woman was appointed by someone for a leadership role, particularly in business, and say she was single, or if the children were grown and the husband was cool with it and believed God was leading and she was qualified and available for the task, why not? Perhaps an appointment to a council board in the county or a cabinet post at the White House-I don't know, maybe...

You said it seems hypocritical for "...a woman to be trying to gain a position of leadership and claiming Biblical principles." I would hesitate in judgment on that though. Perhaps it is not hypocrisy, but rather someone that doesn't scripture in the same way we do. While it can be frustrating at times, I would simply consider that it's a sister on her Christian journey that still doesn't have that area of the faith worked out. God knows I still have many areas in my life not worked out, and at a glance it appears that I am a hypocrite, and maybe that is the proper term to use, but be aware there are all sorts of inconsistencies in our lives.

Be glad when the election is over, it's pretty nasty up here in PA with the Santorum/Casey senate race. Only thing is when the 06 election is over the 08 process will begin. I always think of this verse during elections:

Psa 20:7 Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

 

[arunma]

I got so annoyed at the radio today that I had to turn it off. I was listening to the only Christian station in the area and a political commercial came on. It was a local woman running as a write in candidate for the senate. The funny part was her going on about Christian values. Maybe this sounds chovanistic, but it seems pretty hipocrytical for a woman to be trying to gain a position of leadership and claiming Biblical principles.

That's an interesting point. But as Menno said, it would seem that Scripture only prevents women from having very specific roles of church leadership. For example, Lydia, Mary Magdalene, and (possibly) Phoebe are three examples of businesswomen from the Bible that come to my mind, and their positions of secular leadership were never condemned.

Anyway, further comments on this are sure to be interesting.

 

[Adara]

Some might point out that, woman or no, it might not be advisable to identify oneself with temporal politics at all.

Excerpt from the Schleitheim Confession (Anabaptist, 1527)


"Lastly, one can see in the following points that it does not befit a Christian to be a magistrate: the rule of the government is according to the flesh, that of the Christians according to the Spirit. Their houses and dwelling remain in this world, that of the Christians is in heaven. Their citizenship is in this world, that of the Christians is in heaven. The weapons of their battle and warfare are carnal and only against the flesh, but the weapons of Christians are spiritual, against the fortification of the devil. The worldly are armed with steel and iron, but Christians are armed with the armor of God, with truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation, and with the Word of God. In sum: as Christ our Head is minded, so also must be minded the members of the body of Christ through Him, so that there be no division in the body, through which it would be destroyed. Since then Christ is as is written of Him, so must His members also be the same, so that His body may remain whole and unified for its own advancement and upbuilding. For any kingdom which is divided within itself will be destroyed."

 

[Danfrey]

As Christians, we are the church. In our culture we have become too accustom to considering church the building we attend on Sunday. I don't see the standards changing through the rest of the week. Paul says in 1 Timothy 2 that a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man. As Christians, I see our standards applying daily, not one set for church and one set out of church.

This really is a side point considering I don't agree with Christian involvement in government. It just struck me odd when I heard it on the radio.

Menno, I do understand your point that my wording was pretty harsh. I should attempt to express it in a more loving manner. One thing I have to consider is how I would approach a "Christian living in an adulterous relationship" (as an extreme example) Is this person on a journey or living in sin? The same could be said about "Christian" military personel fighting the war in Iraq. My intent was not to judge this woman but to draw attention to the fact that the actions themselves are sinful. This medium is not always the easiest to get our message across.

Hi Arunma, you mentioned a few business women from the New Testament. As far as I know we don't have enough information from scripture to assume much in the way of leadership. As a merchant, did these women have men working under them? Did their authority extend beyond their business? Did they participate in thier local government? The Bible doesn't say. I think we would have to stretch pretty far to find Christian women in positions of Governmental authority in Biblical times.

If Christ had the same view of men's and women's roles that our society (including much of Chistendom) has today. He would have chosen 6 women and 6 men as his apostles. We have been so conditioned by political correctness and so called women's liberation that the roles of women and men in the family and society have become very blurred.

Of course, this seems very harsh without knowing my personality and the honor which I show the ladies in my life. I am not saying that I don't respect women. I am saying that I understand that God created women for a supportive role. Thankfully they are in that role. I don't have the same ability to connect with my children the way my wife did. Also, it is important to know that my wife never felt like she was oppressed. On the contrary she loved that fact that I made the final decisions in the home. She knew that her views were considered in every decision I made.

 

[Danfrey]

I would agree 100% Adara. As citizens of the Kingdom of God, our loyalty lies in a different place. You will find that many on here agree.

 

[CelticRose]

The biggest problem I see with women working outside the home (only my think) is that scripture teaches that a woman is to be subject to her own husband. (ie his authority, as i understand the teaching; correct me if i'm wrong) Involving herself in work brings most women under the authority of males other than their rightful husband.

 

[ZiSunka]

I got so annoyed at the radio today that I had to turn it off. I was listening to the only Christian station in the area and a political commercial came on. It was a local woman running as a write in candidate for the senate. The funny part was her going on about Christian values. Maybe this sounds chovanistic, but it seems pretty hipocrytical for a woman to be trying to gain a position of leadership and claiming Biblical principles.

Hmm, the Bible might have something to say about a woman's role in the church, but I don't see anything prohibiting a woman from having a leadership role in the government.

Strictly speaking, I don't think I see your point.

 

[ZiSunka]

The biggest problem I see with women working outside the home (only my think) is that scripture teaches that a woman is to be subject to her own husband. (ie his authority, as i understand the teaching; correct me if i'm wrong) Involving herself in work brings most women under the authority of males other than their rightful husband.

But if a husband wants his wife to work, wouldn't that place her under submission to her husband? Wouldn't she be rebelling against him if she didn't work?

 

[ZiSunka]

That's an interesting point. But as Menno said, it would seem that Scripture only prevents women from having very specific roles of church leadership. For example, Lydia, Mary Magdalene, and (possibly) Phoebe are three examples of businesswomen from the Bible that come to my mind, and their positions of secular leadership were never condemned.

Anyway, further comments on this are sure to be interesting.

Not to mention the Proverbs 31 woman. She ran a business, owned her own property, did importing, manual labor and trading. That sounds like leadership to me. She must have had leadership over her male servants and employees. And she is held up as the epitome of godly womanhood.

 

[catlover]

The biggest problem I see with women working outside the home (only my think) is that scripture teaches that a woman is to be subject to her own husband. (ie his authority, as i understand the teaching; correct me if i'm wrong) Involving herself in work brings most women under the authority of males other than their rightful husband.

Women can be in leadership positions outside the home, you know.

I am not subject to my husband's "authority". I am not a dog I am a person. We are equals.

 

[ZiSunka]

Plus, where in the Bible does it say that women have to submit to EVERY man? It says to submit to their own husbands, and to the authority of the church, but not to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world, or even to all the men in the church.

 

[ZiSunka]

While it can be frustrating at times, I would simply consider that it's a sister on her Christian journey that still doesn't have that area of the faith worked out.

Many anabaptists reject the notion that a woman's exclusive place is in a position beneath men.

And before you lambaste me for non-traditional anabapsist values, remember that anabaptism isn't exclusive to people to plain people who accept the Schleitheim text as their sole source of doctrine. Mennonite USA affirms that women are to submit their husbands, but not to be subject to them and that women can hold certain positions of leadership and that women should be considered equal to men in every way.

I know the next post is going to contain the words, "That's why Mennonite USA is apostate" or "where the mennonite church went wrong," but the fact is, it is every bit as anabaptist as any of the other sects.

 

[MrJim]

A wide spectrum we are and actually have always been...